Spurs: Say Kawhi wins another FMVP next year....A 40% chance IMO.

[spurraider21]

Up till now, I can't see Leonard as a dominant player who forces teams to play his way because he is too good, or one who is so versatile that he could be a cornerstone to multiple systems. But he is still ridiculously critical to the Spurs system. He may (and I hope he does) prove me wrong, or he may evolve into a franchise type of player in the future, but as of now, I don't see it.

same thoughts here. i haven't bought into the "face/future of the franchise stuff" yet, but that doesn't mean i dont want him to be a spurs lifer

[apalisoc_9]

Really?

I've always thought the system didn't fit kawhi..

The System limits him.

[DAF86]

People are making it sound bad that a system player is a bad thing, but it really isn't.

TheBestEva brought up Chauncey Billups as an example, and it's a perfect one. Billups was an average guard before landing on the Pistons, he was considered a bust, or at least a disappointment, though as he was the #3 pick of a draft.

But once he got to the Pistons, he shined. He got to play in a system where his strengths, especially those on offense, were magnified. He was given the ball, and dictated a very deliberate offense. It cattered to his strengths and he became a star. The Pistons wouldn't have won a championship, or even be a strong contender if it wasn't for Billups, not too many PGs could fit into that role.

OTOH, the reverse is also true, Billups can't fit into too many other systems to be successful either, and that is why he was a system player.

The same could be said of Karl Malone.

Saying a player is a system player doesn't mean that his contributions were trivial, it simply means that his skillsets are suitable for a smaller set of systems.

Players like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Jordan, Magic, these are dominant players who could play in any system and dominate. Shaq forces the entire team to play his way because he is so ridiculously dominant, you can plug random guys around him and he would still make the team successful, same with Hakeem, and Jordan. Magic and Duncan are very versatile players who can adapt their style of play according to the personnel around them, but still be the centre of the system.

Up till now, I can't see Leonard as a dominant player who forces teams to play his way because he is too good, or one who is so versatile that he could be a cornerstone to multiple systems. But he is still ridiculously critical to the Spurs system. He may (and I hope he does) prove me wrong, or he may evolve into a franchise type of player in the future, but as of now, I don't see it.

How does the system fit Kawhi? If anything he adapted to fit the system. He developed a 3pt shot, he's trying to maximaze his defensive potential and he makes the best out of his limited oportunites. Imagine if he could play on a system that allows him to post up, go one on one and just get more plays called for him.

[apalisoc_9]

How does the system fit Kawhi? If anything he adapted to fit the system. He developed a 3pt shot, he's trying to maximaze his defensive potential and he makes the best out of his limited oportunites. Imagine if he could play on a system that allows him to post up, go one on one and just get more plays called for him.

Messi slurper with the Goods...

[vander]

How does the system fit Kawhi? If anything he adapted to fit the system. He developed a 3pt shot, he's trying to maximaze his defensive potential and he makes the best out of his limited oportunites. Imagine if he could play on a system that allows him to post up, go one on one and just get more plays called for him.

his averageness in those areas would be exposed tbh

[apalisoc_9]

his averageness in those areas would be exposed tbh

STFU dumbass

[Daniel Sedin]

Next one is for Manu...

[Clipper Nation]

Next one is for Manu...

Frizzle status: confirmed

[Daniel Sedin]

Spurs fan being a fan of Manu: confirmed

[Kool Bob Love]

6

[ambchang]

How does the system fit Kawhi? If anything he adapted to fit the system. He developed a 3pt shot, he's trying to maximaze his defensive potential and he makes the best out of his limited oportunites. Imagine if he could play on a system that allows him to post up, go one on one and just get more plays called for him.

That's the point, he's not the system but part of the gang. Kawhi, at this point, has shown that he is a borderline all star with the potential to be a regular all star. But no one is looking at hi as the next coming of Lebron or Durant. He could be a poor mans pippen if things fall in place, but that is still a stretch goal.

All in all, fantastic player, just that it's difficult to see him as a first ballot hall of famer.

[DAF86]

That's the point, he's not the system but part of the gang. Kawhi, at this point, has shown that he is a borderline all star with the potential to be a regular all star. But no one is looking at hi as the next coming of Lebron or Durant. He could be a poor mans pippen if things fall in place, but that is still a stretch goal.

All in all, fantastic player, just that it's difficult to see him as a first ballot hall of famer.

Well but you talked about him as some kind of player that wouldn't succed in another system (even comparing him with Billups), when in reality he made a lot improvements to fit in Pops and I could see him easily having equal or greater succes (in terms of individual numbers not team accomplishments) with other systems.

Your premise was that Kawhi was a "system player", he isn't.

[SpurSwag]

Kawhi might be a system player in terms of his development maybe not being possible with any other organization, as the player we drafted in 2011 needed a lot of work in several areas. However, due to a great coaching staff and his own great work ethic, the player that just won FMVP and hasn't even reached his cieling yet isn't a system player. This kawhi would flourish on any team in the league, posting greater numbers on most other teams probably.

[ambchang]

Well but you talked about him as some kind of player that wouldn't succed in another system (even comparing him with Billups), when in reality he made a lot improvements to fit in Pops and I could see him easily having equal or greater succes (in terms of individual numbers not team accomplishments) with other systems.

Your premise was that Kawhi was a "system player", he isn't.

Billups was a fantastic player. What is wrong with comparing Kawhi to him? Kawhi in another team would be billups in Denver level. What is wrong with that?

[DAF86]

Billups was a fantastic player. What is wrong with comparing Kawhi to him? Kawhi in another team would be billups in Denver level. What is wrong with that?

You said Kawhi is a system player, he isn't.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Lets call a spade a spade here. There is no reason to believe that Kawhi wont be a top 3 player in the league in a few years. He has all the tools but most of all the work ethic. Pop said he has never seen a more hungry player to get better and win. Under Pop, the sky is the limit for him.

[ambchang]

You said Kawhi is a system player, he isn't.

Is billups a system player? I would consider him to be one. Players who excel in one type of system and levels off significantly in others are system players. Doesn't make them bad players, just that they need a certain structure to excel and maximize their contributions.

Kawhi isn't so dominant that he can just take over a franchise. Again, he's like a poor man's pippen, and he wasn't even considered as a pre injury Paul George. Miami was the perfect opponent for him and that's why he couldn't in the regular season do what he did in the finals. Nobody in their right minds would consider Kawhi a franchise player at this point.

He may be able to do it one day, he just is t one now and hasn't shown that he is going to be one soon.

[ambchang]

Lets call a spade a spade here. There is no reason to believe that Kawhi wont be a top 3 player in the league in a few years. He has all the tools but most of all the work ethic. Pop said he has never seen a more hungry player to get better and win. Under Pop, the sky is the limit for him.

Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, love, curry, griffin, and depending on this years draft class, a lot of players will still be better than Kawhi. I can see top 10 if things really fall into place, top 3 would be unreal.

[spurraider21]

Lets call a spade a spade here. There is no reason to believe that Kawhi wont be a top 3 player in the league in a few years. He has all the tools but most of all the work ethic. Pop said he has never seen a more hungry player to get better and win. Under Pop, the sky is the limit for him.

Lebron Durant and Anthony Davis will be the top 3 players tbh, in some order

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Lebron Durant and Anthony Davis will be the top 3 players tbh, in some order

Ye of such little faith

[spurraider21]

Ye of such little faith

That's pretty accurate

[Malik Hairston]

Leonard isn't a franchise player-caliber player, tbh, that's obvious, but he can't be labeled a system player when he plays in a system that doesn't even suit his style of play..

His numbers and performance is substantially better when he isn't playing with the Duncan/Splitter combination, and he's also reduced to spot-up shooting(which isn't his speciality) when Parker is on the floor with him, too..part of the reason Leonard was so great in the final 2 rounds was because the Spurs diverted from Parker-ball against OKC/Miami, along with Diaw playing over Splitter..

Leonard was the #1 ranked post-up wing player in the regular season, but he isn't permitted to post up when he's playing with Duncan/Splitter, for obvious reasons..Pop has also repeated that he doesn't even run plays for him..his numbers when he plays as the #1 or #2 option in the offense are outstanding, I think that he has already shown that he can be a very good #2 guy on a le team IMO..

[TDMVPDPOY]

if hsi not a franchise player, then enrique isnt one, dude is nothing more then a ballhog

give kawhi the same amount of touches...he also can be anything u want, at leasts better then the ballhog mention

now he has to put up another 3 years playing alongside this ballhog who will stunt his growth, let alone take all the credit for other ppls contributions while gettin bailed out..

[Malik Hairston]

^I don't think Parker is a franchise player either, relax..

[Splits]

Dude was barely a lottery pick. The expectations of him on this board are ridiculous considering he was drafted at 15 and only 3 years in.