The media is ridiculously one sided on the Israel-Palestine conflict

[Wild Cobra]

WC, ever the brave one, who won't even debate points in this forum like a man, blaming impoverished people who can't even feed themselves for not charging into a phalanx of fully automatic assault rifles.

Not surprising that you would label living, breathing people, as "collateral damage".

OK, what is your solution?

[Shastafarian]

Stop talking past me. NO ONE on this board has advocated for Hamas or their actions. They're terrorists and they deserve to get booted out.

Just not at the expense of thousands of innocent lives that Israel is all too willing to end, as long as they can do it without receiving too much chastisement from the world.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...un-school-gaza

Even the ing United States said they went too far (but we're not above making money on the situation).

You quoted someone who mentioned genocide. You linked to a wikipedia article about white phosphorus use in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Without realizing it (I assume) you gave evidence of BOTH sides using it yet you only chastised Israel. I was pointing that out.

The audacity to make a statement like that.

Seeing as how I have relatives who live there and have been there myself it's not audacious at all. Your comment was ignorant.

It's pretty clear that 2 people have died and thousands on the other side. Pretty clear you have no idea how disproportionate that is.

Your comment said nothing about a death tally. You commented on how easy it is to live in Israel. After all, there's nothing to worry about right?

You let me know the minute a missile from Gaza lands on a hospital or school. Then we'll talk.

I have yet to say I think Israel is justified in hitting schools or even using artillery. However, you keep assuming things that just aren't clear cut. You're assigning blame and frankly getting upset about things you don't understand. It's frustrating to see someone who clearly has an interest in the situation be so lazy.

[spurraider21]

Im it even discussing who is right or wrong here. But describing it as genocide is laughable

[Shastafarian]

Sensationalism continues to manipulate people...

[Shastafarian]

Im it even discussing who is right or wrong here. But describing it as genocide is laughable

I didn't understand why he quoted you and then brought up white phosphorus. If it was an attempt to back up claims of "genocide" he ruined his own post by showing palestinians used it too.

[Cry Havoc]

You quoted someone who mentioned genocide. You linked to a wikipedia article about white phosphorus use in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Without realizing it (I assume) you gave evidence of BOTH sides using it yet you only chastised Israel. I was pointing that out.

So you're saying Israel has equaled the actions of a terrorist organization that you've been condemning right and left on this board. Cool. Your only problem is you're still waiting for me to condone Hamas. Which I haven't and won't do. "It's not genocide but hey, as long as TERRORISTS are doing it, we might as well do it too!" That kind of logic is just saddening. Israel should NOT be sinking to the level of Hamas. And if Israeli civilians died in those white phosphorus attacks, I absolutely would label it genocide or attempted genocide at the very least.

Seeing as how I have relatives who live there and have been there myself it's not audacious at all. Your comment was ignorant.

And you are OBVIOUSLY not objective in this situation, given what you just stated. So drop the act like you're viewing this from objectively tinted lenses.

Secondly, again, you're free to think you're the only one who could POSSIBLY know someone from Israel. You're also free to make that determination without any facts to support it. But if I said I did, you'd probably just call me a liar, right?

Your comment said nothing about a death tally. You commented on how easy it is to live in Israel. After all, there's nothing to worry about right?

Of course there is. I'm sure every citizen in Israel is concerned about the conflict. How many of them do you think spend large portions of their day huddled in shelters waiting for a bomb to fall on their head?

I have yet to say I think Israel is justified in hitting schools or even using artillery. However, you keep assuming things that just aren't clear cut. You're assigning blame and frankly getting upset about things you don't understand. It's frustrating to see someone who clearly has an interest in the situation be so lazy.

it's hard for me to condemn the means to an end.

Yeah, man, don't be TOO harsh in ridiculing Israel for their actions!

And of course I'm upset. People are dying. That is perhaps the best thing TO be upset about. It's difficult to sit here and watch it go down. That doesn't mean I abdicate rationality in my discourse. YOU however, have admitted to having family in Israel, so to accuse me of being impartial is frankly ridiculous. And make ad-hominems all you want. Again, just shows how ridiculously biased you are in this situation.

[Shastafarian]

So you're saying Israel has equaled the actions of a terrorist organization that you've been condemning right and left on this board. Cool.

I don't agree with the use of white phosphorus this is true. I also don't feel the need to assign labels like you do.

Your only problem is your still waiting for me to condone Hamas.

I'm not. Your one-sided condemnation of Israel does it implicitly.

"It's not genocide but hey, as long as TERRORISTS are doing it, we might as well do it too!" That kind of logic is just saddening.

Logic I have not espoused. I was pointing out YOUR failure of logic in chastising Israel but not Hamas.

Israel should NOT be sinking to the level of Hamas. And if Israeli civilians died in those white phosphorus attacks, I absolutely would label it genocide or attempted genocide at the very least.

You clearly don't know what genocide means

And you are OBVIOUSLY not objective in this situation, given what you just stated. So drop the act like you're viewing this from fairly tinted lenses.

What act? It's pretty obvious where my bias lays. I do my best to be objective. You clearly don't.

Secondly, again, you're free to think you're the only one who could POSSIBLY know someone from Israel.

Never said that

You're also free not to make that determination without any facts to support it. But if I said I did, you'd probably just call me a liar, right?

Nope. When were you there? How many people do you know there?

Of course there is.

But you told us everything was peachy

I'm sure every citizen in Israel is concerned about the conflict. How many of them do you think spend large portions of their day huddled in shelters waiting for a bomb to fall on their head?

Uh...a large portion when the sirens go off. And that had been happening fairly frequently.

Yeah, man, don't be TOO harsh in ridiculing Israel for their actions?

Like I said it's hard to condemn their actions. But I have done so.

And of course I'm upset. People are dying. That is perhaps the best thing TO be upset about. It's difficult to sit here and watch it go down. That doesn't mean I abdicate rationality in my discourse. YOU however, have admitted to having family in Israel, so to accuse me of being impartial is frankly ridiculous.

I accused you of being manipulated by sensationalism. I hate that people are dying. I don't agree with a good portion of what the Israeli govt is doing. That being said the other side makes it difficult to suggest anything else. Israel conducts these airstrikes and artillery attacks to save the lives of their soldiers. I don't like that they conduct these operations in civilian areas but I'm not sure what other option they have aside from a full ground offensive that will cost thousands of lives on both sides. What suggestions do you have?

Also try to calm down. I can see this is getting you worked up.

[pgardn]

hamas aint shootin at their own ppl, why would their own ppl fight against the ppl who are fighting the enemy?

Are you serious?

Hamas basically won a war against the Abbas faction of the PLO. The Abbas faction is now set up in the West Bank.
They had Palestinians shooting and killing each other, Hamas won in Gaza.
You are so ill-informed its amazing.

Just stop and let others post until you actually read something about the history of the region.
You make Australia look like some sort of Island for derelicts.
And to think my wife and I discussed how Australians seem to fit in so comfortably in Texas...
Wait a sec...

[Shastafarian]

200,000 people die, no big deal.

1,400 die, suddenly we *have* to respond.

Yep. Logic.

These images could have been posted weeks months or years ago and it would have just been a bullet in their head/chest, or the remnants of their body from an explosion. Why is dying from conventional warfare more acceptable?

These were the only comments I could find from you on the Syrian civil war where thousands of civilians have died. Now I'll be honest I only got to look through 4-5 threads. Care to direct me to your outrage over those civilian deaths?

[DarrinS]

hamas aint shootin at their own ppl, why would their own ppl fight against the ppl who are fighting the enemy?

Oops

http://twitchy.com/2014/07/29/italia...re-not-israel/

[Cry Havoc]

I don't agree with the use of white phosphorus this is true. I also don't feel the need to assign labels like you do.
I'm not. Your one-sided condemnation of Israel does it implicitly.

Perhaps the most ed up thing about this situation is that I need to openly condemn a terrorist organization to satisfy this bizarre thought you have in your head that I agree with what they're doing. It is IMPLICIT that when I call them a "terrorist organization", there is a definite implied meaning in that. Why the should I have to draw those two lines out for you to connect? Do you need to physically read the words? I call them a terrorist organization and your response is "STOP SIDING WITH THEM". Ok Chief.

Logic I have not espoused. I was pointing out YOUR failure of logic in chastising Israel but not Hamas.

Why the would I chastise a terrorist organization whom I do not recognize as a legitimate government?

You clearly don't know what genocide means

gen·o·cide
ˈjenəˌsīd/Submit
noun
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

Hmmm, gee, does setting off a wide-dispersal severe burn agent in a populated area count as "deliberately killing a large group of people"? I don't know professor, why don't you explain to me how it's not?

Amnesty International said a fact-finding team found "indisputable evidence of the widespread use of white phosphorus" in crowded civilian residential areas of Gaza City and elsewhere in the territory.[39] Donatella Rovera, the head of an Amnesty fact-finding mission to southern Israel and Gaza, said: "Israeli forces used white phosphorus and other weapons supplied by the USA to carry out serious violations of international humanitarian law, including war crimes."

Clearly I'm just ignorant. Keep firing out the ad-hominems, dude.

What act? It's pretty obvious where my bias lays. I do my best to be objective. You clearly don't.

Because I disagree with you. Mmkay.

Never said that

Pretty clear you have no idea what it is to be an Israeli civilian.

Pretty clear you said exactly that. As in, no other meaning could be derived from what you said. But you go ahead and backtrack on your own words pal.

Nope. When were you there? How many people do you know there?

A good friend and former roommate of mine is an Israeli citizen. Used to tend bar at a place called "The Bomb Shelter" of all places.

But you told us everything was peachy

By comparison? Absolutely. You don't see a lot of people on twitter in Israel openly wondering if they're going to die tonight. Because they know they aren't.

Like I said it's hard to condemn their actions. But I have done so.

Right before you said, "The ends justify the means." Do you know what condemn actually means? You haven't stopped defending them from day 1 of your posts.

I accused you of being manipulated by sensationalism.

People dying en masse and hospitals being bombed with wounded still inside isn't dramatic to you? Do you think this needs to be "played up" in the media more than it is?

I hate that people are dying. I don't agree with a good portion of what the Israeli govt is doing. That being said the other side makes it difficult to suggest anything else. Israel conducts these airstrikes and artillery attacks to save the lives of their soldiers. I don't like that they conduct these operations in civilian areas but I'm not sure what other option they have aside from a full ground offensive that will cost thousands of lives on both sides. What suggestions do you have?

For starters, not specifically targeting areas where there will be large numbers of children. For all the expert targeting Israel has done, they've killed less than 100 armed fighters, if reports are to be believed. So in essence they're just killing civilians right now. Given how large the Gaza forces are supposed to be, that seems to be a pretty damning indicator of how effective Israel is. Maybe STOP bombing hospitals, ambulances, and schools, and MAJOR population centers, unless you're SURE you're going to hit a military target? Because as of now, it looks like they're lobbing missiles wherever there are people. Because that's exactly what they're doing.

Also try to calm down. I can see this is getting you worked up.

I'm fine. But do feel free to make more assumptions about me, that seems to be the driving modus operandi behind a good portion of your rebuttals.

[DarrinS]

Are you serious?

Hamas basically won a war against the Abbas faction of the PLO. The Abbas faction is now set up in the West Bank.
They had Palestinians shooting and killing each other, Hamas won in Gaza.
You are so ill-informed its amazing.

Just stop and let others post until you actually read something about the history of the region.
You make Australia look like some sort of Island for derelicts.
And to think my wife and I discussed how Australians seem to fit in so comfortably in Texas...
Wait a sec...

Yep. And don't protest against Hamas, either.


http://www.worldtribune.com/2014/07/...an-protesters/

[Shastafarian]

And make ad-hominems all you want. Again, just shows how ridiculously biased you are in this situation.

Oh you added this little tidbit. I said you clearly have no idea what it is to be an Israeli civilian because you don't...unless you live there. Do you live there?

It's ridiculous. If Hamas was that much of a threat to Israel, you wouldn't see Israeli citizens going about their daily life like nothing is ever going to happen while they're in the middle of a war across the border.

I would wager a vast minority go about their day "like nothing is ever going to happen".

More people died yesterday from lightning strikes than Israelis have during this escalation of the conflict. Somehow I'm not convinced that Hamas is a threat to them. Weird, I know.

I think the people who have died from rockets would disagree about Hamas being a threat That is they would disagree if they were still alive. Just because the iron dome is really efficient doesn't mean there is no threat.

[Cry Havoc]

These were the only comments I could find from you on the Syrian civil war where thousands of civilians have died. Now I'll be honest I only got to look through 4-5 threads. Care to direct me to your outrage over those civilian deaths?

Of course I'm outraged over Syria. The comments above are proof of that. I follow it as often as I can from the few news sources I trust to be impartial. It's arguably an even more complicated scenario, though, since many of the rebel groups are just as bad as the current government.

I fail to see anyone on SpursTalk who wants to debate the issue much, however. Bump the topic and let's get it going and I'd be happy to lend my views. I was unaware that my posting to SpursTalk are proof of how I feel about the world.

[DarrinS]

Why do people trust casualty figures supplied by Hamas?

[pgardn]

Palestinian flags waving next to swastikas in France.

Peachy...

[mingus]

You think this is the case? If Hamas could have invaded Israel, they would have done so. But across the border is the 6th largest military in the world. Explosive ordinance, tanks, and modern artillery tend to nullify "we have a lot of guys with AK-47s who know how to dig."It's ridiculous. If Hamas was that much of a threat to Israel, you wouldn't see Israeli citizens going about their daily life like nothing is ever going to happen while they're in the middle of a war across the border.More people died yesterday from lightning strikes than Israelis have during this escalation of the conflict. Somehow I'm not convinced that Hamas is a threat to them. Weird, I know.

Why else build a vast network of tunnels if not to use them to invade Israel?

But for me the tipping point was after an article I read that said Hamas has an estimated 15-20,000 force, who are well-trained, well funded (those tunnels are estimated to have cost ~$100 mil), and well-armed (rocket launchers, missiles and sophisticated weaponry looted from Gadaffi and given by other terrorist groups or backers). The article painted the picture that these guys are more than the box cutter/ak-47 wielding, disorganized terrorists. Not only that but they have the backing of ISIS and Hezbollah. ISIS has claimed already they will come to their military aid. Like bacteria these terrorist groups get stronger and more sophisticated. The US is in a geographic position where they can take a more defensive stance against them and not have to take offensive measures. But Israel is right in the thick of everything and I simply don't think they can stop without handing a heavy, decapitating blow to them. A cease fire without doing so would allow the group to re-stock, re-strategize and be better networked with other terrorist groups and be that much more of a problem for Israel in the future. Will it engender more anti-Israeli hatred? Probably so, but I'm not sure Israel has much of a choice. Either way they're pretty much ed. Israel is self-preserving. They'll probably get nuked anyway at some point when one of these groups gets its hands on a nuke and the Israel is doing now will seem like child's play.

[Cry Havoc]

Why else build a vast network of tunnels if not to use them to invade Israel?

But for me the tipping point was after an article I read that said Hamas has an estimated 15-20,000 force, who are well-trained, well funded (those tunnels are estimated to have cost ~$100 mil), and well-armed (rocket launchers, missiles and sophisticated weaponry looted from Gadaffi and given by other terrorist groups or backers). The article painted the picture that these guys are more than the box cutter/ak-47 wielding, disorganized terrorists. Not only that but they have the backing of ISIS and Hezbollah. ISIS has claimed already they will come to their military aid.

Like bacteria these terrorist groups get stronger and more sophisticated. The US is in a geographic position where they can take a more defensive stance against them and not have to take offensive measures. But Israel is right in the thick of everything and I simply don't think they can stop without handing a heavy, decapitating blow to them. A cease fire without doing so would allow the group to re-stock, re-strategize and be better networked with other terrorist groups and be that much more of a problem for Israel in the future. Will it engender more anti-Israeli hatred? Probably so, but I'm not sure Israel has much of a choice. Either way they're pretty much ed. Israel is pretty much self-preserving. They'll probably get nuked anyway at some point when one of these groups gets its hands on a nuke and the Israel is doing now will seem like child's play.

A cursory glance at any reputable website will reveal that they were used for food and other goods (as well as weapons). They were initially designed as smuggling tunnels, not tunnels designed for an invasion. Use some due diligence and research the situation instead of making unfounded accusations.

[Shastafarian]

Perhaps the most ed up thing about this situation is that I need to openly condemn a terrorist organization to satisfy this bizarre thought you have in your head that I agree with what they're doing. It is IMPLICIT that when I call them a "terrorist organization", there is a definite implied meaning in that. Why the should I have to draw those two lines out for you to connect? Do you need to physically read the words? I call them a terrorist organization and your response is "STOP SIDING WITH THEM". Ok Chief.

You're putting words in my mouth. All I have done is point out things you choose not to and said that you have chosen not to. This seems one-sided to me.

Why the would I chastise a terrorist organization whom I do not recognize as a legitimate government?

Because they're doing bad things? I guess calling them a terrorist organization is enough for you and then you don't have to say anything else about what they do. Is that correct?

gen·o·cide
ˈjenəˌsīd/Submit
noun
the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

Hmmm, gee, does setting off a wide-dispersal severe burn agent in a populated area count as "deliberately killing a large group of people"? I don't know professor, why don't you explain to me how it's not?

So it's ok for you to use ad hominems but when I use assumptions to say you don't know what it's like to be an Israeli citizen I'm the bad guy? I don't believe their intention was to kill large groups of people with white phosphorus. That is my belief. The side effects of white phosphorus as signaling a device make it a unusable (in my opinion) in populated areas. Perhaps that is why Israel no longer uses it.

Amnesty International said a fact-finding team found "indisputable evidence of the widespread use of white phosphorus" in crowded civilian residential areas of Gaza City and elsewhere in the territory.[39] Donatella Rovera, the head of an Amnesty fact-finding mission to southern Israel and Gaza, said: "Israeli forces used white phosphorus and other weapons supplied by the USA to carry out serious violations of international humanitarian law, including war crimes."

Clearly I'm just ignorant. Keep firing out the ad-hominems, dude.

As I said I don't agree with using white phosphorus. It is not genocide. And maybe you should cease with the ad hominems too?

Because I disagree with you. Mmkay.

No because your comments are very one-sided. Oh wait, you called Hamas a terrorist organization so it's ok.

Pretty clear you said exactly that. As in, no other meaning could be derived from what you said. But you go ahead and backtrack on your own words pal.

how is that "exactly" that? You're applying meaning to my words.

A good friend and former roommate of mine is an Israeli citizen. Used to tend bar at a place called "The Bomb Shelter" of all places.

And what are his thoughts on this? How many times has he had to go into a bomb shelter?

By comparison? Absolutely.

Didn't realize fearing for ones' life could be marginalized

You don't see a lot of people on twitter in Israel openly wondering if they're going to die tonight. Because they know they aren't.

lol Twitter? For real? You're gonna use twitter as a source for showing Israelis aren't afraid?

Right before you said, "The ends justify the means." Do you know what condemn actually means? You haven't stopped defending them from day 1 of your posts.

I defend them and also am clear where I disagree with them. I'm not sure how this is hard to see.

People dying en masse and hospitals being bombed with wounded still inside isn't dramatic to you? Do you think this needs to be "played up" in the media more than it is?

So you admit you're being manipulated?

For starters, not specifically targeting areas where there will be large numbers of children. For all the expert targeting Israel has done, they've killed less than 100 armed fighters, if reports are to be believed.

Not accurate. I'm not going to claim to know how many combatants have been killed when the numbers are coming from Hamas, among other organizations. That being said I know many hundreds of civilians have been killed and am not ok with it. It pains me to see innocent people killed. As opposed to people who compare being killed by rockets with being hit by lightning.

So in essence they're just killing civilians right now.

based on what?

Given how large the Gaza forces are supposed to be, that seems to be a pretty damning indicator of how effective Israel is. Maybe STOP bombing hospitals, ambulances, and schools, and MAJOR population centers, unless you're SURE you're going to hit a military target? Because as of now, it looks like they're lobbing missiles wherever there are people.

Something we agree on. Why do you think they are doing this? Do you think they're trying to kill civilians? Maybe they think it will garner them favor with some sadistic country or person?

I'm fine. But do feel free to make more assumptions about me, that seems to be the driving modus operandi behind a good portion of your rebuttals.

Pot, kettle. Nice to meet you. You seem upset because you use emoticons and CAPITALIZE more than necessary. You also basically said you're getting emotional.

[Shastafarian]

Of course I'm outraged over Syria. The comments above are proof of that.

Maybe. Not to the level of this outrage IMO. You scoffed at pictures of gassed children. But whatever, I have to take your word for it.

I follow it as often as I can from the few news sources I trust to be impartial. It's arguably an even more complicated scenario, though, since many of the rebel groups are just as bad as the current government.

So you don't comment on it because it's complicated?

I fail to see anyone on SpursTalk who wants to debate the issue much, however. Bump the topic and let's get it going and I'd be happy to lend my views. I was unaware that my posting to SpursTalk are proof of how I feel about the world.

Well when you have this many posts on one topic and so few on an arguably more horrific humanitarian situation, it begs this question.

[mingus]

I'll look at the sites, but it still doesn't change the fact that they're lobbing missiles toward Israel and pose a threat bigger than just sporadic groups of militants with ak47s. It's horrible what's going on over there but Israel is defending itself, and it can't allow the notion that simply hiding among civilians will give them a pass to do what they want.

[Shastafarian]

Cars, cows, and cigarettes came through what were commonly called smuggling tunnels, although Hamas taxed what it could after it came to power 2006. Cheap Egyptian gasoline kept Gaza going when Israel fuel was too expensive. Weapons and sometimes people travelled through those commercial tunnels too.

Hamas also used a tunnel from Gaza to enter Israel and kidnap an Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, in 2006. He was held for five years, until Israel agreed to free more than 1,000 Palestinian prisoners.

Those commercial tunnels were mostly into Egypt, not Israel.

[Cry Havoc]

You're putting words in my mouth. All I have done is point out things you choose not to and said that you have chosen not to. This seems one-sided to me.

False. Stop lying.

I'm not. Your one-sided condemnation of Israel does it implicitly.

You openly said that you think my lack of condemnation can be equated with condoning Hamas. There is no "pointing out what I have and haven't said", because you already attached your own value to it. So again, you backtrack on your words. Don't make assumptions and you'll avoid this issue, ok?

Because they're doing bad things? I guess calling them a terrorist organization is enough for you and then you don't have to say anything else about what they do. Is that correct?

Yes? Do you really want me to hold the Israeli government to the same standards of ideals of a terrorist organization? It's obvious that Hamas is an abominable sect that wants to cause chaos.

So it's ok for you to use ad hominems but when I use assumptions to say you don't know what it's like to be an Israeli citizen I'm the bad guy?

I think after about the 5th round you fired at me, under the full assumption that I was not objective, I decided to start pointing out your hypocrisy. I made absolutely NO comments as to the character behind your arguments until you had fired quite a few in my direction. So yes, I grew tired of you attempting to assail the person behind the comments rather than argue the situation based on merit alone.

I don't believe their intention was to kill large groups of people with white phosphorus. That is my belief. The side effects of white phosphorus as signaling a device make it a unusable (in my opinion) in populated areas. Perhaps that is why Israel no longer uses it.

An Israeli white phosphorous round explodes over a Gaza residential area. 11 January 2009

Signaling. Sure.

As I said I don't agree with using white phosphorus. It is not genocide. And maybe you should cease with the ad hominems too?

Absolutely. As soon as you stop going after my own person in these discussions rather than the point at bear. It is tiresome and bothersome to deal with your tactics. Go back and read over the pages and look at how many individual incursions you've made against me, rather than what I'm saying.

No because your comments are very one-sided. Oh wait, you called Hamas a terrorist organization so it's ok.

Because a terrorist organization is going to... cause terror? That doesn't make it ok. That makes it nothing of the sort. That just implies it's what I EXPECT of them. I don't expect a government like Israel to cause terror. I'm not sure how much more clearly I can delineate the differences between the two at this point.

how is that "exactly" that? You're applying meaning to my words.

Because you (unintentionally perhaps) cram your words with meaning and not so vague reproaches. And then when I comment on it, you state that you are "just making observations". Except much of the time it's contradicting what you said prior to that. See above.

And what are his thoughts on this? How many times has he had to go into a bomb shelter?

I didn't ask him a hard and fast number. He was pretty calm about the entire thing. Just ascribed it to part of being in the region and living there. He wasn't happy about it obviously, but he's a pretty laid back dude anyway.

Didn't realize fearing for ones' life could be marginalized

Why not? You sweep the slaughter of thousands of innocents under the guise of "what has to be done". 2 people have died. Two. So yes, I don't doubt they're afraid, but I seriously doubt they have the same level of fear as the people in Gaza do when they hear air raid sirens.

lol Twitter? For real? You're gonna use twitter as a source for showing Israelis aren't afraid?

I'm pointing out that there are very real people posting about how this might be their last night on Earth from Gaza. They aren't getting dressed, going to school, or work. They're just trying to hang on to life in many places.

I defend them and also am clear where I disagree with them. I'm not sure how this is hard to see.

Right before you go back to saying, "Well, it has to be done and therefore it's justified." Not sure how you feel that's condemning of anything.

So you admit you're being manipulated?

No. I admit that the situation itself, with no media bias or coverage, is absolutely terrifying. It doesn't need any boosting from the media to make it terrible. It already is.

Not accurate. I'm not going to claim to know how many combatants have been killed when the numbers are coming from Hamas, among other organizations. That being said I know many hundreds of civilians have been killed and am not ok with it. It pains me to see innocent people killed. As opposed to people who compare being killed by rockets with being hit by lightning.

And we're back to ad-hominems. I thought you said you were going to stop that?

Something we agree on. Why do you think they are doing this? Do you think they're trying to kill civilians? Maybe they think it will garner them favor with some sadistic country or person?

Because they know they can get away with it. Because it's easier. Because Netanyahu isn't exactly a lover of the people of Gaza. Because might makes right in a large portion of the world still, and Israel knows it will continue to have US support almost completely independent of what they do short of nuking the entire strip.

Pot, kettle. Nice to meet you. You seem upset because you use emoticons and CAPITALIZE more than necessary. You also basically said you're getting emotional.

You started with the ad-hominems, but you accuse me of being emotional. Alright. I admitted that I was upset about the *situation*. I'm objective enough to say that and recognize when I'm slightly compromised. That doesn't mean my arguments have to be laced with acid, however.

[Cry Havoc]

Maybe. Not to the level of this outrage IMO. You scoffed at pictures of gassed children. But whatever, I have to take your word for it.

I scoffed at the media and their lack of coverage. Honestly if you're going to continue this attempted character assassination, I have better things to do with my Saturday than debate this with you. Use reasonable discourse on issue with decency or I'm gone.

So you don't comment on it because it's complicated?

Again, I was unaware that SpursTalk encompassed the entirety of my discussion on a topic. I think it's not being discussed on this site specifically because of the complexity and many people don't want to delve into that corridor. But honestly, could you make ONE post without firing off unfounded assumptions and accusations? And you accuse ME of being emotional.

Well when you have this many posts on one topic and so few on an arguably more horrific humanitarian situation, it begs this question.

Do you see Syria anywhere on the front page? Do you see anyone debating it here? Where's your outrage, sir? Why are people dying in Syria by the thousands and apparently you don't care (see, now I'm borrowing talking points from you), since clearly the only way to show you care about something is whether or not you post on a basketball website about it?

Given you're completely unable to post without attacking me, I think I'll be off of here for a while. I'm sure you'll use this as proof you're correct, but really, it's sad how we can't even share viewpoints of the issue without you accusing me of siding with a terrorist group. Maybe we can try again another day.

[Infinite_limit]

Palestinian flags waving next to swastikas in France.

Peachy...

60 years later. Hitler is vindicated