Tony against other greats PGs

[anakha]

You cannot possibly be this stupid.

Never say never.

[Malik Hairston]

apparently Parker is the only All-Star caliber player in NBA history to have opposing teams game-plan against him..what an awful rebuttal, no actual facts or data presented, just excuses..

A thread where Spurs fans are ting on guys like Paul and Nash, but, but, but don't opposing teams game plan against them, too?..

The other team didn't game plan against Manu last year?..

are all of you just going to ignore that Parker had net negative on/off metrics?..the Spurs were literally better when he left the floor in the playoffs..the "game plan against him" logic is kind of destroyed when you consider that the player in question's team was actually worse when he was on the floor..

The "game plan against him" line would be fine if we were arguing Parker vs. Green or Parker vs. Mills or Diaw..we aren't, this is an argument about Parker vs. other great PGs and Parker vs. himself in past years..

As I said earlier, by his standards and by the standards of an All-Star level player, Parker was horrendous in the playoffs, as I've already shown with actual quantifiable data and facts..

[Obstructed_View]

Nobody game planned against Nash. When the Spurs dominated the Suns in the playoffs, they took away the Suns' three point attempts and took advantage of their lack of defense.

The Spurs killed other teams with their depth. The bench was great. Doesn't mean Parker was bad. It just means the Spurs' bench was way better than the other team's bench.

There's only one fact that Tony Parker cares about, and it's fairly quantifiable.

[will_spurs]

as I've already shown with actual quantifiable data and facts..

No you didn't. Why? Because you can't, of course.

Your only redeeming quality is that you're funny kind of stupid.

[Johnny RIngo]

We're using ring count to prop Tony up as the best PG of his generation? That's the same logic Kobe fans used to prop up Bryant over Duncan for years. Embarrassing to see Spurs fans sinking that low.

If you want to be perfectly honest, Tony has never even been the 2nd best player on any of the Spurs le teams. The reason we dominated the post-season this year has a lot to do with having a healthy Manu(who's always been more impactful than TP). Outside of three games in the Portland series and the game 7 against Dallas, Parker had a horrible playoffs.

[Obstructed_View]

We're using ring count to prop Tony up as the best PG of his generation?

I didn't say he was the best point guard of his generation. When challenged for a lack of "facts", I simply said there's only one thing he cares about. Do you disagree? There's nothing in Parker's entire career to suggest that he cares about anything more than winning championships. If there is, I certainly can't think of it.

Kobe fans spent as much time harping on his individual stats to prop him up. Stats which matter as much or more to Kobe than championships. What's embarrassing is Spurs fans dissecting Tony Parker's stats to try to minimize his contribution to a team that succeeded in its goal. If asked about his horrible playoffs, Parker would say "we won the championship" with a straight face.

And it's true that Parker hasn't been the second best player on any of the le teams, but he was the first best on one of them, and they wouldn't have gotten to any of his four without him.

[skulls138]

You cannot possibly be this stupid. You understand that teams have always game-planned to stop Parker, right? That's the way they used to beat the Spurs. When teams put their best defenders on you every second that you're on the court and send a second person to cheat onto you, your stats aren't great. If you're Kobe Bryant, you start putting up bad shots or throw a fit and pout. Parker doesn't even get down about it because the team is winning. At some point you have to be smart enough to admire the work ethic of the defensive lineman who takes double teams for an entire game while his teammates pressure the quarterback and realize what would happen without him.

But Parkers game is easier to shut down in the playoffs when fastbreak gets eliminated. Dont get me wrong, Parker is the best PG in the league but sometimes I wish he had a dimension to his game ready for when his penetration doesnt work like more assists or less holding onto the ball. Id like his game to be more in sync with the non stop movement of the ball that the Spurs are notorious for.

[Johnny RIngo]

Kobe fans spent as much time harping on his individual stats to prop him up. Stats which matter as much or more to Kobe than championships. What's embarrassing is Spurs fans dissecting Tony Parker's stats to try to minimize his contribution to a team that succeeded in its goal.

Parker's never put together one GREAT complete post-season. TD had 2003(among many others). Manu had 2005. Robinson had 1999. 2013 was the closest thing we've seen to Parker having a beast playoff run but he choked hard in the Finals.

Parker fans also tend to ignore his shortcomings. He was truly awful in 2004 playoffs against LA. Crappy against Dallas in 2006(people blame Manu's foul but Tony's overall play was lacking in that series). 2013 Finals against Miami is probably an all-time low. Never seen an MVP candidate/first option on a playoff team perform that BADLY in a Finals series. Those were all winnable years for the Spurs and TP was a major reason why we didn't win les in those years.

And it's true that Parker hasn't been the second best player on any of the le teams, but he was the first best on one of them, and they wouldn't have gotten to any of his four without him.

No.

2003:
1. TD
2. DRob

2005:
1a. TD
1b. Manu

2007:
1. TD
2. Manu

2014:
1a. TD
1b. Manu
1c. Leonard
1d. Splitter
1e. Diaw

[Malik Hairston]

No you didn't. Why? Because you can't, of course.

Your only redeeming quality is that you're funny kind of stupid.

I didn't list all of Parker's metrics, stats and where he ranked among Spurs' players in the playoffs?..

You haven't even presented once single piece of data or comparison in Parker's favor..all you have done is name a couple of the good games he had in the playoffs, along with getting angry about your inability to present a decent rebuttal or counter-argument..pathetic, tbh, you sound like a 10-year old..

you're stupid!! I don't agree with your argument, despite all the listed facts and data, and I can't counter any of your points, so you're stupid!!! ..

[Obstructed_View]

But Parkers game is easier to shut down in the playoffs when fastbreak gets eliminated. Dont get me wrong, Parker is the best PG in the league but sometimes I wish he had a dimension to his game ready for when his penetration doesnt work like more assists or less holding onto the ball. Id like his game to be more in sync with the non stop movement of the ball that the Spurs are notorious for.

I agree with that to a certain extent. You could make a case that the team is so reliant upon his dominance that they can't recover when he's not playing at the highest level, whereas the team seems more likely to do so when Duncan or Manu aren't dominating. That makes Tony the head of the snake, and it really motivates opponents to focus all their efforts on him. Pretty much every le Spurs team has had to find a way to step up when Parker is contained, but I don't blame Parker for not just dominating every single minute that he's on the floor in the NBA playoffs. There's a very short list of guys who have done that.

[Obstructed_View]

2006(people blame Manu's foul but Tony's overall play was lacking in that series).

Uh, smallball. Center rotation for a 63-win team DNP-CD. Manu shouldn't have been guarding Dirk at the rim. The only thing more re ed than benching all the bigs against the Mavs would be blaming Parker for the loss.

No.

2007:
1. TD
2. Manu

fail.

[barbacoataco]

I agree with that to a certain extent. You could make a case that the team is so reliant upon his dominance that they can't recover when he's not playing at the highest level, whereas the team seems more likely to do so when Duncan or Manu aren't dominating. That makes Tony the head of the snake, and it really motivates opponents to focus all their efforts on him. Pretty much every le Spurs team has had to find a way to step up when Parker is contained, but I don't blame Parker for not just dominating every single minute that he's on the floor in the NBA playoffs. There's a very short list of guys who have done that.

Exactly. I've been watching NBA since mid 80's and only Jordan, Olajuwon and Shaq were really unstoppable no matter how you schemed for them. So saying that Parker can be limited with the right defense, or that he never single-handedly led a team to a le. That is a standard that only a couple of players ever lived up to.

[Malik Hairston]

Damn, 2014 Playoff Parker was historically awful for a high-usage player, tbh..pretty funny that he made this list for 2005, as well..

[Obstructed_View]

Exactly. I've been watching NBA since mid 80's and only Jordan, Olajuwon and Shaq were really unstoppable no matter how you schemed for them. So saying that Parker can be limited with the right defense, or that he never single-handedly led a team to a le. That is a standard that only a couple of players ever lived up to.

Putting Hakeem on that list is very generous, as he only dominated that way when he was surrounded by legendary shooters in an offense nobody had seen before. The series against the Spurs was the only time in his career that he got the better of Robinson.

[barbacoataco]

Putting Hakeem on that list is very generous, as he only dominated that way when he was surrounded by legendary shooters in an offense nobody had seen before. The series against the Spurs was the only time in his career that he got the better of Robinson.

Olajuwon wasn't consistent throughout his career. Maybe he shouldn't be included, so it would be only Jordan and Shaq then.

[ElNono]

Tony was a real pro bringing veteran leadership and intangibles to the court, despite having some nagging injuries, becoming a father during the playoffs, and more importantly not getting in the way of Patty's ascendance on the team...

He's been a model teammate since Brent Barry left the team, has settled as a family man, and now gave the Spurs FO a discount and long term security at his position...

don't understand the criticism, tbh...

[romain.star]

apparently Parker is the only All-Star caliber player in NBA history to have opposing teams game-plan against him..what an awful rebuttal, no actual facts or data presented, just excuses..

A thread where Spurs fans are ting on guys like Paul and Nash, but, but, but don't opposing teams game plan against them, too?..

The other team didn't game plan against Manu last year?..

are all of you just going to ignore that Parker had net negative on/off metrics?..the Spurs were literally better when he left the floor in the playoffs..the "game plan against him" logic is kind of destroyed when you consider that the player in question's team was actually worse when he was on the floor..

The "game plan against him" line would be fine if we were arguing Parker vs. Green or Parker vs. Mills or Diaw..we aren't, this is an argument about Parker vs. other great PGs and Parker vs. himself in past years..

As I said earlier, by his standards and by the standards of an All-Star level player, Parker was horrendous in the playoffs, as I've already shown with actual quantifiable data and facts..

That was not Parker best PO run ever, we should all agree about it.

But if he was horrendous, it would be by Jorden standards or something like that.

I mean... English is not my motherthong but "horrendous" sounds quite brutal.

[Bambililos]

English is not my motherthong

[Obstructed_View]

Olajuwon wasn't consistent throughout his career. Maybe he shouldn't be included, so it would be only Jordan and Shaq then.

I certainly don't mean to suggest that he wasn't a great player, but he gets mentioned with Jordan far more often than he deserves.

[romain.star]

i know it's lame but could help it...

[Brazil]

Tony was a real pro bringing veteran leadership and intangibles to the court, despite having some nagging injuries, becoming a father during the playoffs, and more importantly not getting in the way of Patty's ascendance on the team...

He's been a model teammate since Brent Barry left the team, has settled as a family man, and now gave the Spurs FO a discount and long term security at his position...

don't understand the criticism, tbh...

tbh...