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Ok, so apparently we're ranked 10th. But it's still better than Brazil, Italy and Argentina.ignorant
Me and littlecoyotecoin go way back... we're just killing time until we can cheer for Diaw and Thiago at the Worlds... don't mind us.
Ok, so apparently we're ranked 10th. But it's still better than Brazil, Italy and Argentina.
Last edited by tmtcsc; 08-04-2014 at 07:58 AM.
"Pretty Much"
I'm sorry for your brother-in-law but please be aware that we, europeans, have access to running water for only 2 years now
He made comments before getting the third party opinion, and I have also cast the Chicago doctor as a crook. You can shop for an opinion you want in a situation like this. It was no coincidence that the random doctor he picked and the NT doctors all agreed on a timeframe that was desirable to him, and also happened to all be wrong. Since the timeframe for recovery here has leeway, he would be lucky that the diagnosis didn't come back the same, longer than The Spurs diagnosis, or shorter than The Spurs diagnosis, but still longer than it did come back or desired. Instead, it came in right in line with what was acceptable to him. How convenient for a random variable to land right where you need it to. This is analogous to you needing a potato at the market that is 4 ounces from a group that ranges 2-10 ounces, and you walking up and randomly picking a potato, and lo and behold, on your blindfolded first attempt, you are so fortunate as to pick a four ounce potato.
Add to this the increasingly unlikelihood that a group of medical doctors would look at the data and all be WRONG about the diagnosis, unless there were some bias involved, and you've got more probability issues.
for the NT doctors and the Chicago doctors to be so wrong about the timeframe for recovery, yet both arrive at similar conclusions, I have to believe one of two things:
1) Extremely unlikely random chance
2) Bias, including bias in the selection of the Chicago doctor. Using a random number generator, blinds, a phone book with osteopaths numbers in it, and a larger sample, I am pretty sure Manu doesn't get a diagnosis for recovery that quick.
Chance happens, but to root for it is unrealistic, so I go with #2, the Chicago doctor was pre-screened to know what he would likely say before he was officially sourced as the official, neutral, third party opinion. Essentially, they weighed the potato before they picked it.
Last edited by littlecoyotecoin; 08-04-2014 at 08:17 AM.
the fact than in average it is still better than Italy, Brazil or Argentina does not mean these countries don't have top class specialists. We are not talking about a random dude from the favelas consulting a third world country medic
I heard it was a witch doctor tbqh.
It's just weird and seems unbecoming of Manu for him to doubt the Spurs doctors, that they had an agenda with his health care. Kind of ty.
Well on a serious note, being a random French guy living in Berlin (Germany), i'd much rather be sick in one of those 2 countries than in the US
(insert rants about Manu being selfish and the Spurs being too business-minded with snarky remarks that make me better than the rest of ST)
Excellent point!
Dude can barely walk right now. I wonder if he will be healed at all....
His at ude in that article really sucks. Salty toward the Spurs. He appears to have checked out. Time to bank one more year of money then bail.
There have been a lot of changes in the understanding and treatment of stress fractures, just in the last decade. A lot of "good" doctors cling to the old ways, even after it should be obvious that there are better treatments. Stress fractures take a long damn time to fully heal, and longer as we age. The accepted treatment these days is a period of inactivity, followed by a slow rehab process. One big contributor to stress fractures is when the muscles can't handle the full load, and more of the impact is transferred to the bone. And since the muscles deteriorate during the initial period of inactivity, it's important to strengthen the muscles ahead of any increase in impact training (weeks, not days).
Manu has had this same problem in his right leg, over and over. And since he's never taken a summer off (that I can remember) it's possible, maybe even likely, that it has never fully healed. The really bad thing is that if a stress fracture doesn't completely heal, it makes it easy to re-injure. And after a while, it can reach a point where it will never heal properly. After 6 weeks, he could have started strengthening exercises. But "ramping up" his training regimen, to try and make up for the period of inactivity is just ing stupid. No if's, and's, or but's - just ing stupid.
The Spurs had a legitimate, contractual right to tell him not to play or train with the NT this summer. He ignored them and started an accelerated training regimen that no up-to-date doctor would have approved. If he's not 100% by the beginning of training camp, I'm pretty sure the team could terminate his contract. I don't think there is any chance the Spurs would ever do that. But by running off and ignoring their instructions, he pretty much has to hit training camp running, just to prove that he didn't re-injure his leg. I love Manu and what he's done for the Spurs over the years, but this was selfish. He needs to come back and get on a supervised rehab program, and work things out with the FO to stay on light duty at least through the end of camp, and (even more) limited minutes until after the AS break. A healthy Manu really improves the Spurs' chance of a repeat. He's been through enough training camps with the Spurs, and they will be fine without him in November and December.
I don't believe that this is an elaborate story to try and make everyone happy about him not playing with the NT. If he really went there and started training, it says he was really planning on playing this summer. With his injury, and his age/history, I don't think there is any legitimate sports osteopath who would say that was something he should do. I don't know who the doctor in Chicago was, but he should start thinking about retiring, too.
lol true
"Congratulations! You win...something"
He made the comments to a Bahia Blanca, Argentina radio station when he was already in Argentina... He saw the Chicago doctor before getting to Argentina. So, no, he didn't make the comment before getting the third party opinion.
And everybody but the Spurs' doctors isn't a crook
AFAIK, the Chicago doctor didn't tell him to start training, he told him to check back on the injury in 30 days. He didn't tell him he would be healed by then or anything like that. Retirement avoided.
Manu certainly wanted to play, and it shouldn't be surprising he pushed the issue after noticing some improvement on the injury. You can definitely pin that on him.
Ultimately, what apparently is the major issue here is that he spoke his mind on how he felt about the recovery time the Spurs doctors gave him... I personally rather have a guy that speaks his mind freely instead of getting the PR-approved, pre-recorded message, tbh... but that's certainly a matter of personal preference...
You're one of the few people still here that I would bother to try and have a discussion with, so here goes:
I assumed that the specialist Manu mentioned was the one from Chicago. I have to admit, I don't know that for sure. But whoever it was, Manu said that doctor told him this: "the 40 days between the last game against the Heat and the first day of the national team's training camp were more than enough for it to heal completely". Whoever the doctor was, he should have his ass kicked, if he really said that. It's totally irresponsible, particularly in light of Manu's age and history of overuse injury in that same area of his right leg. There is no way that 40 days could have ever been enough for his stress fracture to "heal completely". It was enough for him to begin rehab, that's all.
Manu is a warrior, and I respect the out of that quality. But there is enough good, solid medical evidence available that he should know that stress fractures don't fully heal that quickly. And sometimes the better part of valor is to let yourself get back to 100%, so that you don't wind up hurting the team more than you help.
I've gotten burned out on the league, in general. But Manu has been something special to watch, and I feel privileged to have seen thing things he has done on the court. I would love to see him go out on a high note. If he doesn't let this thing fully heal, he's just going to disappear to the injured list, and never come back. That would be a shame. To be honest, I still think he could have more gas left in the tank, if he ever let this thing get all the way healed. But I'm a little concerned that he's already reached the point that it might not heal all the way. He might be able to overcome his age on the floor (when healthy), but he can't escape the fact that the human body doesn't regenerate as quickly when we get older.
I'll say it again. He needs to come back, and tell management, "Look, I ed up... what can we do about it?" And then he needs to take the advice of the experts, and stop trying to be Superman.
He made the worst of the comments when he got to Argentina, but he was not quiet immediately after The Spurs diagnosis, he may have even made a self-diagnosis, controverting theirs, almost immediately. And, no, not every doctor is a crook, that is why they had to pre-screen one so that he would be sure to give them something to work with.He made the comments to a Bahia Blanca, Argentina radio station when he was already in Argentina... He saw the Chicago doctor before getting to Argentina. So, no, he didn't make the comment before getting the third party opinion.
And everybody but the Spurs' doctors isn't a crook
AFAIK, the Chicago doctor didn't tell him to start training, he told him to check back on the injury in 30 days. He didn't tell him he would be healed by then or anything like that. Retirement avoided.
Manu certainly wanted to play, and it shouldn't be surprising he pushed the issue after noticing some improvement on the injury. You can definitely pin that on him.
We can agree on that, to an extent. But, when you give people enough rope, sometimes they hang themselves.
I'm under the same assumption. I just don't think there was anything malicious about it. The original recovery time the Spurs gave him was 8 weeks. This guy told him to rest and maybe it'll be healed in 4 weeks. Again, I don't think this guy told him to practice or 'cleared' him up for anything. According to Gino, he actually started to do fitness after they send the studies to San Antonio.
IMO, it's not really complicated: he's a compe or and he wanted to be there. He was going to push the issue, and that's definitely on him. I also have no reason to doubt what he says about certain doctors pulling a certain way. It's also true that Manu is extremely important in that ARG team, so they would wait longer for him to heal, but they won't play him if he's hurt.
I don't disagree. But he was in Argentina after all. I doubt you'll hear a comment like that in the US...
Because places are so isolated from one another in this day and age.
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