NBA: Kevin Love is a top 10 player in the NBA,,,,

[kobe4life]

All of you guys are fools to say Love is better than God. God never missed the playoffs in his prime when he played a full season while this loser can never get into the playoffs.

[Raven]

Lebron
KD
Westbrook
Curry
Lillard
CP0
Davis
healthy Kobe
healthy Rose
healthy Paul George
Dirk
Aldridge
Griffin
Melo

Those are the players I'd put over Love right now, at least 13 of them if Kobe, PG and Rose were healthy.

He's the perfect forward to complement Lebron and they will most likely make the Finals together, but he's not a top 10 player in this league with some of these guys leading average teams to Playoffs in the Western Conference. You'd honestly put Love ahead of Griffin, Aldridge, Davis or Dirk, based off of last season? He's borderline top 5 PF in the league, but not a top 10 player.

He puts up some nice stats, but they haven't won many games and before you tell me the Wolves are so horrible as a team, how many games did they lose in crunch time last season, when they needed Love to seal the deal?

Love's crunch time numbers last season

(4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left,
neither team ahead by more than 5 points)
Floor Time statistics

Min	Net Pts	Off	Def	Net48	W	L	Win%
94%	-80	103.3	128.5	-25.3	15	22	40.5%

These stats represent how the team performed in clutch situations while the player was on the floor.
The Net48 number shows the average +/- net points over a full game.

Scoring

By	FG.	FGA	FG%	eFG%	Ast'd	Blk'd	FTM	Pts
48 Min	9.8	27.5	.356	.425	65%	5%	8.5	31.9

holy 128.5 drt

[djohn2oo8]

Please explain.

Explain what makes him better.

[RsxPiimp]

Explain what makes him better.

Well for starters, he doesn't rely on food stamps like Harden and though he's not a competent defender he still brings defensive value whether you view it as stat padding or not. I know you're going to write an essay and defend Harden but he's about the most useless player in that list.

I'm willing to bet if you remove Harden and put a non All Star to replace him like Afflalo and replace T Jones with Love they'll go deeper in the playoffs.

[spurraider21]

the people still putting Kobe on their top 10 lists

[Bill_Brasky]

In before Love allows a GW layup to lose a game in the playoffs and the camera cuts to Lebron glaring at him

[Clipper Nation]

he still brings defensive value

While I agree that Harden sucks, I'd love to hear how one of the league's worst rim protectors "brings defensive value".... rim protection is the most important job for a big man on defense and he can't even be mediocre at it....

[spurraider21]

While I agree that Harden sucks, I'd love to hear how one of the league's worst rim protectors "brings defensive value".... rim protection is the most important job for a big man on defense and he can't even be mediocre at it....

he's gna bring up rebounding

[Malik Hairston]

That "clutch time" argument is pretty awful, considering it's a small sample size and you're cherry-picking your guidelines as to what cons utes "clutch time"..

Also, Love's on/off metrics are still great, even factoring defense, just like Harden, Curry and other poor defensive players, tbh..lack of defensive skills plays a part in your overall on/off numbers..

From a building standpoint, finding a defensive 5 to compliment a non-anchor PF is pretty easy, too..well, at least much easier than it is to find a great offensive 4/elite rebounding 4..

[Raven]

That "clutch time" argument is pretty awful, considering it's a small sample size and you're cherry-picking your guidelines as to what cons utes "clutch time"..

Also, Love's on/off metrics are still great, even factoring defense, just like Harden, Curry and other poor defensive players, tbh..lack of defensive skills plays a part in your overall on/off numbers..

From a building standpoint, finding a defensive 5 to compliment a non-anchor PF is pretty easy, too..well, at least much easier than it is to find a great offensive 4/elite rebounding 4..

love is sub par on offense, chucking low percentage jumpers may be fine if you're kobe, but for anyone else it's unacceptable, he needs first to return to being a pf first, then he may be useful to some team. RIght now he is just a joke of a player like carmelo anthony.

[Chinook]

That "clutch time" argument is pretty awful, considering it's a small sample size and you're cherry-picking your guidelines as to what cons utes "clutch time"..

Also, Love's on/off metrics are still great, even factoring defense, just like Harden, Curry and other poor defensive players, tbh..lack of defensive skills plays a part in your overall on/off numbers..

From a building standpoint, finding a defensive 5 to compliment a non-anchor PF is pretty easy, too..well, at least much easier than it is to find a great offensive 4/elite rebounding 4..

I dont think 185 minutes is really THAT small of a sample when the numbers are that glaring. It's very possible Love is a choker. Those exist, and some even get hyped as stars.

As far as defensive centers go, I think elite ones are still hard to find. You can argue that one division has seven of the top 10 defensive bigs in the league, and none of them is for sale.

[Malik Hairston]

love is sub par on offense, chucking low percentage jumpers may be fine if you're kobe, but for anyone else it's unacceptable, he needs first to return to being a pf first, then he may be useful to some team. RIght now he is just a joke of a player like carmelo anthony.

he had a 59% TS this season, he's one of the most efficient players in the entire league..he's absolutely an elite offensive producer..

[Raven]

he had a 59% TS this season, he's one of the most efficient players in the entire league..he's absolutely an elite offensive producer..

that's because he's one of the best free throw shooting big in the league, he is very bad in shooting % . That's simply because every year he goes further from the rim and has a bad shot selection. It's completely mental, if he'd be fine with being the best pf in the game and would refine his game to be that, he could. Instead he wants to be a well rounded statpadding star and ends up being the perfect example of a professional loser.

[Malik Hairston]

I dont think 185 minutes is really THAT small of a sample when the numbers are that glaring. It's very possible Love is a choker. Those exist, and some even get hyped as stars.

As far as defensive centers go, I think elite ones are still hard to find. You can argue that one division has eight of the top 10 defensive bigs in the league, and none of them is for sale.

I don't believe in the "clutch" argument regardless, as I've said before..the "4th quarter down or up 5 with less than 5 minutes left" is extreme cherry-picking, too..those types of stats ignore all surrounding cir stances, especially when using metrics like unadjusted offensive/defensive ratings and wins/losses in "clutch time"..

[Chinook]

I don't believe in the "clutch" argument regardless, as I've said before..the "4th quarter down or up 5 with less than 5 minutes left" is extreme cherry-picking, too..those types of stats ignore all surrounding cir stances, especially when using metrics like unadjusted offensive/defensive ratings and wins/losses in "clutch time"..

I don't believe in clutch players, either. But I do believe in anti-clutch players. People can totally make mistakes repeatedly under pressure.

Chris Paul is a choker. He's proven that time and time again. I'm sure he has fantastic stats, though.

[Malik Hairston]

I don't believe in clutch players, either. But I do believe in anti-clutch players. People can totally make mistakes repeatedly under pressure.

Chris Paul is a choker. He's proven that time and time again. I'm sure he has fantastic stats, though.

Maybe, but there are a ton of cir stances and variables when considering "clutch" players..Dirk and Lebron were viewed as chokers prior to winning les, for example..

I can't call a player "anti-clutch" until I've seen him in several different situations from a surroundings perspective..I've only seen Love in Minnesota with mediocre supporting casts and a coach that stopped caring years ago..when he changes environments, if he fails in "clutch" situations, then it's probably fair to call him "anti-clutch"..way too early to make that conclusion, though..

It seems like there's a good chance he'll be in Cleveland this season, though, so we'll get some answers soon..

[Malik Hairston]

There's also a difference between players that are "clutch" in just making plays down the stretch(Carmelo, for example), but don't perform well in the playoffs..are those guys considered "clutch"?..it's all subjective interpretations..

Is Tony Parker "clutch"?..he has made a ton of big shots in his career, but he constantly under performs in the playoffs..

[spurraider21]

There's also a difference between players that are "clutch" in just making plays down the stretch(Carmelo, for example), but don't perform well in the playoffs..are those guys considered "clutch"?..it's all subjective interpretations..

Is Tony Parker "clutch"?..he has made a ton of big shots in his career, but he constantly under performs in the playoffs..

its impossible to discuss Love's playoff performances tbh

[Malik Hairston]

its impossible to discuss Love's playoff performances tbh

Just speaking to the inconsistency of the "clutch" argument that began as a tool to hype certain players(Bird, DK, Kobe)..

[skut_farkus]

Love is a top tier roll player. Not someone you build around. A goldenstate monte ellis, big numbers but nothing to show for it.

[Chris]

Malik Hariston deleting his "Love is a top 5 player" from the first page

[Malik Hairston]

Malik Hariston deleting his "Love is a top 5 player" from the first page

He could be, it's a toss-up between him and like 5 other players, tbh..

Fans emphasize "wins and losses" without context too much, it's an antiquated view on ranking players..

[RsxPiimp]

While I agree that Harden sucks, I'd love to hear how one of the league's worst rim protectors "brings defensive value".... rim protection is the most important job for a big man on defense and he can't even be mediocre at it....

I said that in context. I started by admitting Kevin Love is not a competent defender. But compared to Harden, Curry and even Melo, his 12 RPG has to account for something better than any of the aforementioned guys.

[SpursFan86]

Love is absolutely a top 10 player. Lmfao at people saying guys like Duncan and Parker are better than him (this coming from a Spurs fan). Don't even get me started with guys like John Wall and Kyrie Irving...that's just flat-out stupid. Are we really going to sit here and lambast Love for his defense and then turn around and say guys like Parker, Irving, and Harden are better than him?

BTW, where does this myth that Love is a horrible defender come from? Minnesota had a top 10 defense for most of the year and ended up 12th defensively. Love ranked well in DRPM as well. He's an average defender...not some huge defensive liability like some of y'all are making him out to be. Being a bad rim protector =/= being a bad defender overall. Bosh isn't a great rim protector either but he's one of the best PnR defenders in the league and overall he's a very good defender. Love played nearly 40% of his minutes last season at center, which isn't a good way to utilize him. Play him at PF and pair him up with a solid rim protector and he'll be just fine defensively.

Let's look at how Minnesota played with Love on/off the court:

With Love on the court: ORTG = 111.6, DRTG = 106.0, Net RTG = +5.6
With Love off the court: ORTG = 101.1, DRTG = 106.5, Net RTG = -5.3

So with him on the court, Minnesota clearly outplayed their opponents. When he went to the bench, they'd fall apart offensively and give up leads.

outta here with this primitive logic of "Putting up good stats on a bad team = statpadder who doesn't have a real impact". KG missed the playoffs 3 years in a row from 2005-2007. Only an idiot would say he wasn't a top player in the league who had a monstrous impact during that span.

[Malik Hairston]

Love is absolutely a top 10 player. Lmfao at people saying guys like Duncan and Parker are better than him (this coming from a Spurs fan). Don't even get me started with guys like John Wall and Kyrie Irving...that's just flat-out stupid. Are we really going to sit here and lambast Love for his defense and then turn around and say guys like Parker, Irving, and Harden are better than him?

BTW, where does this myth that Love is a horrible defender come from? Minnesota had a top 10 defense for most of the year and ended up 12th defensively. Love ranked well in DRPM as well. He's an average defender...not some huge defensive liability like some of y'all are making him out to be. Being a bad rim protector =/= being a bad defender overall. Bosh isn't a great rim protector either but he's one of the best PnR defenders in the league and overall he's a very good defender. Love played nearly 40% of his minutes last season at center, which isn't a good way to utilize him. Play him at PF and pair him up with a solid rim protector and he'll be just fine defensively.

Let's look at how Minnesota played with Love on/off the court:

With Love on the court: ORTG = 111.6, DRTG = 106.0, Net RTG = +5.6
With Love off the court: ORTG = 101.1, DRTG = 106.5, Net RTG = -5.3

So with him on the court, Minnesota clearly outplayed their opponents. When he went to the bench, they'd fall apart offensively and give up leads.

outta here with this primitive logic of "Putting up good stats on a bad team = statpadder who doesn't have a real impact". KG missed the playoffs 3 years in a row from 2005-2007. Only an idiot would say he wasn't a top player in the league who had a monstrous impact during that span.

Strong post, tbh, POTM-worthy..