Bortles looked surprisingly good.... ESPN of course reported that he was "starting slow" as part of their quest to suck off everything Johnny-related, though
Cant wait to see more of the class tbh. I was happy with Bortles but like Gus Bradley said it was with virtually no blitz or pressure. Which is common in preseason. I suspect the bears game on thursday will provide a better challenge for Bortles. I gotta catch up on the other QB's games so thanks for the analysis!
ESPN can't let the 3rd overall pick over shadow the late 1st rounder.Bortles looked surprisingly good.... ESPN of course reported that he was "starting slow" as part of their quest to suck off everything Johnny-related, though
Derek Carr on Madden:
Overall - 74
Speed - 80
Throw Power - 93
Short Accuracy - 86
Medium Accuracy - 74
Long Accuracy - 68
Throw on run - 75
Matt Schaub:
Overall - 78
Speed - 60
Throw Power - 84
Short Accuracy - 85
Medium Accuracy - 75
Long Accuracy - 79
Throw on Run - 72
He missed one throw and obviously runs will stand out more. But to summarize, Football is good but that's all cancelled out by the fact that there's a possibility for injury?
'Hey he's capable of racking up X amount of yards, but he might get injured in the process. Do not want.'
He missed one throw and obviously runs will stand out more. But to summarize, Football is good but that's all cancelled out by the fact that there's a possibility for injury?
'Hey he's capable of racking up X amount of yards, but he might get injured in the process. Do not want.'
sounds like Vick in a nuts
Does Football have the injury history Vick does ?
his prospects are bleak. qb's dependent on their feet historically do not last. you have to bank on him being an outlier for some reason
Dont think you know what the word dependent really means. Regardless, wheres this long list of players that were 'dependent' on their legs and eventually broke down ?
either broke down or didn't make it/didn't last because their style gets exposed on the NFL level. all the same to me. they don't last
So even if he stays healthy he will eventually wash out bc other QBs that could run failed? This despite your agreeing that hes a pretty underrated passer. 'Hes an underrated passer. He has no injury history. But other guys that could run sucked and/or got injured. That must guarantee Football will have the same fate.'
Makes perfect sense.
its a general trend and he hits the mold. quarterbacks who defend on their feet for effectiveness by in large just don't work at the NFL level. it hasn't really proven to be a sustainable play style.So even if he stays healthy he will eventually wash out bc other QBs that could run failed? This despite your agreeing that hes a pretty underrated passer. 'Hes an underrated passer. He has no injury history. But other guys that could run sucked and/or got injured. That must guarantee Football will have the same fate.'
Makes perfect sense.
i said he's an underrated passer here, and that's because people make him out to be jamarcus russell accuracy wise and mark sanchez arm strength wise. i don't think he's a terrible passer. i also don't think he's anything special in that regard
michael vick didn't have an injury history in college either. NFL defenders are bigger, faster, stronger, and hit harder. when you run around in college and take hits its one thing. when you do so in the NFL its an entirely different animal.
i'm not guaranteeing manziel will have the same fate, i'm just looking at the large sample size in the NFL. but then again i'm a big russell wilson fan, though he's in a spot where he doesn't throw a ton and isn't really being leaned on. still, wilson has proven to be a very good NFL passer within his sample size despite a mediocre receiving crew and pass protecting line
you seem to ignore the history and just say "because he's football"
Last edited by spurraider21; 08-14-2014 at 11:58 PM.
so far all fared well.
bortles showing nice touch and adjusting nicely in the pros
carr showing poise and pocket presence
bridgewater bounced back nicely, had two impressive drives late in the game
didnt watch jimmy g but it seems hes gonna be the main backup for tom terrific
So far:
1. Bortles
2. Derek "Scha
3. Bridgewater
4. Leaf 2.0
Garoppolo was easily #2 and Thomas #3, strictly based on visual rating.So far:
1. Bortles
2. Derek "Scha
3. Bridgewater
4. Leaf 2.0
lol bortles, the only one without a TD yet
hes been the best one so far tbh
fwiw this is all me Avante style rambling
I don't know what you mean by exposed. A QB who can make plays with his feet's style can't get exposed--it's just an extra weapon the QB has. Injury from running is the only downside. The best dual threat QB was prolly 2010 Vick--and his play itself never really got exposed.
The one read and run guys get exposed because they never make the transition from college to the NFL. Cam was like that at Auburn. Johnny was like that his first year, but actually tried to go through progressions his second. Wilson wasn't. Luck wasn't. RGknee wasn't but played in a "playless" system offense. I don't think you can use this against Football considering that 99% of college QBs don't make it from their college offenses to the NFL ones.
As for durability, I don't know if we even have a whole lot of evidence on that. All of the running QBs who have got their shot have either been the bigger 6'4 dudes or have been athletes masquerading as QBs. Problem with using the bigger guys to compare is that the 6'4 athletic QBs have different issues with injury from where guys have to tackle em. You don't hit Cam like you hit Wilson. You have to Cam's knees/collarbone up to bring him down. The other guys aren't real QBs, no point in talking about them. (Ex: Kordell Stewart)
So who's left? Athletic system QBs. Guys like Akili Smith, Andre Ware, RG3. Cause , even Vick didn't play in a QB friendly offense like all of these guys did.
Akili Smith and Ware flamed out because they were never pro style passers and couldn't make the transition, so not because of injury. If Knee flames out, it'll be because of injury--but Cleveland certainly isn't going to run as much zone read as the Redskins did...
tl;dr
All I've managed to say in all of this is the "no " comment that if Football doesn't pan out, it's not going to be because of injury--it'll be because he's like every other system QB who can't make the transition. It doesn't matter that he ran a lot in college.
Rodgers/Big Ben/Wilson all do it just fine in a sustainable way. What isn't sustainable is 1) Not sliding like Vick 2) read option based offenses.its a general trend and he hits the mold. quarterbacks who defend on their feet for effectiveness by in large just don't work at the NFL level. it hasn't really proven to be a sustainable play style.
I think Johnny will slide and try to protect himself, but I don't think he's a NFL ready QB today even though everyone/ESPN wants him to be. He's what, 21 years old? He played in a system offense in college. He was never forced to really go through his progressions and could do stupid hail mary because he had the best safety blanket in CFB.
He should be miles away from being NFL ready tbh.
Last edited by jimbo; 08-19-2014 at 11:28 PM.
i always hear this phrase, and it sounds so amazing in theory, but it almost never really works out that way. that's what they said about RG3 coming out of college. that he's an amazing passer, and his running only adds to his game. very few QB's use their mobility tastefully. rodgers does it, big ben does it, andrew luck does it.
Russell Wilson is an anomaly. im a huge fan of his, and he defies the mold. however, much like Luck and big ben, Wilson is actually pretty thick. he's not a shrimpy guy like vick or manziel. also, wilson does a great job of sliding and doesn't take too many huge hits when running downfield. he usually bee-lines to the sideline or slides quite early. i get nervous with wilson when he starts scrambling behind the line and reversing field. it also helps that wilson is actually an above average passer from within the pocket, with terrific arm strength
That's because they ing ran zone-read plays half the time with the Redskins which obviously leads to unnecessary hits on your QB. That and RG3 thought he was some kind of genius by gaming the system and encouraging late hits on himself for flags. Oh, and he thought he was a warrior by playing through injury...
When you have athletic guys with common sense who play within themselves, you end up with Russell Wilson/Luck. Manziel doesn't have the common sense off the field, but he at least knows the limitations of his body or what he is as a player unlike RG3/Vick.
I want to say Manziel is a smart guy, but I don't know how to phrase it right. He's not book smart like RG3. Like he has common sense, but lacks good judgment.
I don't think his weight'll be an issue. He's north of 200 isn't he? He's likely within 10 pounds of whatever Wilson is. I haven't gotten to see any of his preseason games, but is he still rolled up in padding like he was at A&M? He always wore a ton it looked like. (Or maybe it just looked like that because he's not tall)
Great, great post tbh.
being reliant on your feet isn't sustainable. while luck and rodgers (the 2 ideal guys with mobility, imo) have good mobility, their effectiveness is not reliant on their feet. these are 2 cases where their mobility is only a positive. in other cases, it just isn't. those 2 also happen to be elite passers. regardless of your mobility, it has been time tested that being an effective qb from within the pocket is still a key to success. manziel is an average at best prospect when it comes to that
wilson is one of those rare exceptions but he is also a terrific, accurate passer. he is also on a team that doesn't emphasize the passing game nearly as much as others.
The point is you are using a very limited sample to come to that conclusion. If Football fails it will be bc of his own faults as a passer, not bc 'QBs that can run don't work'.
He's 21 and not a stupid football player. He will only improve, the question is how much.
he's an average at best passing prospect, and as we all know, he won't succeed in the NFL playing the same way he did in college. he's going to have to move around less (what made him great) and throw from the pocket more.
You have the right to have your opinion on Football. Ultimately 21 is way too soon to tell just how much he will develop as a passer.
My only issue is when people say he won't last bc dumb s like Vick/RGIII didnt. Or that he can't throw bc a guy like Vince Young couldnt. He's a smarter football player than the formers and has a much better arm than the latter. He has some obstacles to overcome to be successful but learning to avoid contact+having a decent throwing motion aren't part of it.
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