Why Havent We Signed Baynes - QO Question

[exstatic]

You can't equate a player's talent with his contract, because front offices make HUGE mistakes all the time. Or maybe Green sucks too because nobody wanted to sign him back when the Spurs cut him?

A player's worth is based on talent, of course, but also perception, fan appeal, immediate need of a team, availability of money... If I followed your train of thought then a player like Gordon Hayward should be the second coming of Michael Jordan.

On top of that, given the fact that nobody is going to offer Baynes a stupid amount of money, the Spurs saying "we'll match anything reasonable" is pretty much the same as them saying "we'll match anything", and the kiss of death for Baynes' hope on the NBA market.

It's still not a good idea to let him walk, not to lowball him (even worse when the difference between what he's going to get and what Ayres gets is pocket money).

Wow. Don't even know where to start with this. Teams can make mistakes, but there is VERY little likelihood that EVERY other team would make the same mistake on one player. I also don't know HOW you go from "match anything reasonable" to "match ANYTHING" with nothing in between. Those don't mean the same, AT ALL. Teams know what the Spurs pay to deep bench (#12-15) guys. Come in above that, maybe between $2-3M, and he's likely yours, especially on a multi year deal. Plenty of teams had that kind of money this summer.

I'll skip over the entire Hayward = MJ hysteria, as I never said or even implied ANYTHING remotely like that.

As a deep bench guy, it's RC's JOB to lowball him and pay him as little as possible. People wonder year after year how the Spurs have such a clean cap sheet. THIS IS HOW. You don't lock yourself into a closet and bid yourself up. You pay as little to the guys with low, double digit roster position numbers, make your QOs and let the chips fall where they may. , they lowballed Belinelli. He had offers higher than $2.75M. The Spurs said "This is what we can pay you." He signed.

[TD 21]

Baynes issues are mainly three things:

- fouling which he improved significantly.
- shooting %. He is shooting very well for Australia.
- conditioning with limited minutes. steady playing time right now helps.

He is a complete defensive 5. He can actually get out and defend the pnr. He can extend out to double playside and recover. He can bang in the post. He can rotate and block shots at the rim. He is a good physical rebounder. He runs well and is athletic.

I can only find bits and pieces of the Ukraine game I am interested to see where his shooting from and routinely hitting 70% from the field.

- He still turns it over far too much for such a minimal big.
- His career fg% is .447. Atrocious for any big, let alone one that can't stretch the floor.
- His conditioning is largely irrelevant, since he's not needed for significant minutes.

He's not at all a complete defensive C. As exstatic said, he has limited defensive range, but on top of that, he's also not a rim protector (not that protecting the rim is all about shot blocking, but his career block % is a paltry 1.3 and worse if you factor in the playoffs). Even his defensive rebounding is mediocre. His only real strength defensively is just that: his strength, which is only useful in select match-ups.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Apparently the concept of a teams extending offers to Baynes and Baynes not making a decision is beyond the scope of some.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

- He still turns it over far too much for such a minimal big.
- His career fg% is .447. Atrocious for any big, let alone one that can't stretch the floor.
- His conditioning is largely irrelevant, since he's not needed for significant minutes.

He's not at all a complete defensive C. As exstatic said, he has limited defensive range, but on top of that, he's also not a rim protector (not that protecting the rim is all about shot blocking, but his career block % is a paltry 1.3 and worse if you factor in the playoffs). Even his defensive rebounding is mediocre. His only real strength defensively is just that: his strength, which is only useful in select match-ups.

Him playing well and shooting a high percentage and not turning the ball over is the point of this 'excitement' you guys are so determined to not allow.

He does get far too cute on offense and ends up out of position. I suppose seeing Splitters's block numbers you think he is a poor rim defender as well. Just becuase there is a stat that relates to rim defense does not mean that it is exhaustive in its description. You can consistently watch Baynes make rotations and alter shots in much the same way Splitter does it.

Further Baynes strength also plays into team rebounding. He always blocks out the opponents best rebounder often to the detriment

As for range. You guys are just talking out of your ass. He has not been asked to defend stretch 4s so we don't know how he would do. Most high pnr see us playing ice but when asked to show playside and recover he shows pretty good range especially for a 5. He is not Chris Bosh doing it but he can at least as well as say Chris Anderson.

[tholdren]

Anyone who thinks blocks is a good category to base defense on is almost as clueless as those who think ppg equates to best players.

Blocks don't mean anything unless there is a to accompanied with the block. That Stat is not tracked. Just like fouls, or any other Stat, most are taken out of context by fans as we see here

[exstatic]

Him playing well and shooting a high percentage and not turning the ball over is the point of this 'excitement' you guys are so determined to not allow.

It's FIBA, and it's not even FIBA compe ion. It's friendlys/exhibitions.

[jeebus]

It's FIBA, and it's not even FIBA compe ion. It's friendlys/exhibitions.

Even the friendlys are more compe ive than the summer league, where your boy toy flopped around like a .

[ChumpDumper]

Even the friendlys are more compe ive than the summer league

lol nobody even sees the friendlies to be able to make that call.

I still would like a list of friendlies players who aren't under contract. That might be telling.

[tholdren]

lol nobody even sees the friendlies to be able to make that call.

I still would like a list of friendlies players who aren't under contract. That might be telling.

Just admit that summer league is almost as worthless as aau

[ChumpDumper]

Just admit that summer league is almost as worthless as aau

It can be quite useful but isn't the end-all be-all of player evaluation.

[xmas1997]

It can be quite useful but isn't the end-all be-all of player evaluation.

Hey, remember how downstairs you were humiliated about making a huge dogma blunder, about you making up lies about meds, bitterness, and contests?
That was, and is pretty funny.

[TD 21]

Him playing well and shooting a high percentage and not turning the ball over is the point of this 'excitement' you guys are so determined to not allow.

He does get far too cute on offense and ends up out of position. I suppose seeing Splitters's block numbers you think he is a poor rim defender as well. Just becuase there is a stat that relates to rim defense does not mean that it is exhaustive in its description. You can consistently watch Baynes make rotations and alter shots in much the same way Splitter does it.

Further Baynes strength also plays into team rebounding. He always blocks out the opponents best rebounder often to the detriment

As for range. You guys are just talking out of your ass. He has not been asked to defend stretch 4s so we don't know how he would do. Most high pnr see us playing ice but when asked to show playside and recover he shows pretty good range especially for a 5. He is not Chris Bosh doing it but he can at least as well as say Chris Anderson.

I thought you were referring to his play in the NBA. Nonetheless, consider the compe ion and small size at work here. There's been plenty of examples of fringe NBA players playing out of their mind internationally and it not carrying over. Batista and Ayon are recent examples that come to mind.

He's a relatively low IQ player. I specifically said there's obviously more to protecting the rim than blocks, but you acted as if he was a shot blocker, which is just not true at all.

Maybe so (though unless you have data that suggests the team rebounds better with him on the court, it can't be said with any certainty), but he was touted as an excellent rebounder and in reality, he's merely solid.

No, you're talking out of your ass because of your bizarre obsession with a clear fringe player. There's a reason he hasn't been asked to defend stretch fours.

[anakha]

Hey, remember how downstairs you were humiliated about making a huge dogma blunder, about you making up lies about meds, bitterness, and contests?
That was, and is pretty funny.

Follow your own advice and stick to the topic, Christmas troll.

We have always needed a Maurice Lucas/Malone/Oakley type enforcer and even though Baynes isn't anywhere near that level he does project a toughness that we are certainly going to need every time we play Houston and OKC. I could care less if either Daye or Ayres stays but I sure hope Baynes takes the offer.

If OKC and Houston are the main reasons people want Baynes to stick around, that projects him as a niche player.

We just saw how much niche players get paid by the Spurs - look at Bonner's contract history.

Are people willing to see Baynes get that much if he is indeed a niche player?

[xmas1997]

Follow your own advice and stick to the topic, Christmas troll.
If OKC and Houston are the main reasons people want Baynes to stick around, that projects him as a niche player.
We just saw how much niche players get paid by the Spurs - look at Bonner's contract history.
Are people willing to see Baynes get that much if he is indeed a niche player?

Take your advice and stick it up your ass, I do as I please and at my leisure, bag troll.

[anakha]

Take your advice and stick it up your ass, I do as I please and at my leisure, bag troll.

Christmas troll not bothering to hide his being a massive hypocrite.

Stick to the topic you guys
I'm not a troll because I don't derail topics and insult people for no reason
I'm a troll by my own definition
Sooooo butthurt by Chump in the Club that I have to about him in other forums

[Ice009]

How much do you think we want to pay Baynes? Every time that I've said the Spurs should give him a slight raise, the number I've been thinking is something like 500K. If he wants much more than that, then I'd probably let him walk too. I'm not talking about giving Baynes anywhere near the 3+mil Bonner got for being a niche player, no way, but I think a slight raise after winning the Championship isn't that much to ask, is it?

The guy played in a few playoff games and did OK in most of the minutes he got out there. After winning the championship, I think a slight raise is worth it. I also do think he can help against some teams like Houston, OKC, Portland, those type of teams.

For the rest of you that want him back, how much do you guys think the Spurs should pay him? Should they offer him a slight raise, or not give him a cent more than they are offering?

[Chinook]

I think the issue with Baynes is contract length more than salary. The Big Three took paycuts to give the team the luxury of overpaying role-players, and Baynes seems popular in the locker room. But the team still seems to care a lot about 2015 cap space, and I doubt they want to throw away a max slot because Baynes is taking up $2-3 Million. They've already jeopardized it with Patty's deal.

Also, the Spurs need to figure out how to carry a fourth PG. Baynes leaving is the easiest way to free up a slot, but it's probably not the way they prefer, hence they they haven't made a decision.

[xmas1997]

Christmas troll not bothering to hide his being a massive hypocrite.

I don't have to resort to lying to make my points, but then you prove that the truth hurts.
If you don't want to continue your derailing then shut the up, it's that easy.
Keep your opinions about me to yourself, but you're so butthurt and anal you can't.
You haven't the guts to admit that I humiliated chump, instead you lie about it.

[xmas1997]

I think the issue with Baynes is contract length more than salary. The Big Three took paycuts to give the team the luxury of overpaying role-players, and Baynes seems popular in the locker room. But the team still seems to care a lot about 2015 cap space, and I doubt they want to throw away a max slot because Baynes is taking up $2-3 Million. They've already jeopardized it with Patty's deal.

Also, the Spurs need to figure out how to carry a fourth PG. Baynes leaving is the easiest way to free up a slot, but it's probably not the way they prefer, hence they they haven't made a decision.

I will still be surprised if Baynes does not sign his QO. If I am not mistaken it is still on the table waiting for him.

[Chinook]

Baynes might be able to get more from an overseas team. If that's the case, the Spurs lose their leverage with him. He may well move on if the Spurs hold fast to their stance.

[xmas1997]

Baynes might be able to get more from an overseas team. If that's the case, the Spurs lose their leverage with him. He may well move on if the Spurs hold fast to their stance.

Yes, that is one scenario that could occur, but it hasn't happened yet.

[exstatic]

How much do you think we want to pay Baynes? Every time that I've said the Spurs should give him a slight raise, the number I've been thinking is something like 500K. If he wants much more than that, then I'd probably let him walk too. I'm not talking about giving Baynes anywhere near the 3+mil Bonner got for being a niche player, no way, but I think a slight raise after winning the Championship isn't that much to ask, is it?

The guy played in a few playoff games and did OK in most of the minutes he got out there. After winning the championship, I think a slight raise is worth it. I also do think he can help against some teams like Houston, OKC, Portland, those type of teams.

For the rest of you that want him back, how much do you guys think the Spurs should pay him? Should they offer him a slight raise, or not give him a cent more than they are offering?

You pay your end of the roster guys as little as possible. It's a business.

[spurraider21]

I think the issue with Baynes is contract length more than salary. The Big Three took paycuts to give the team the luxury of overpaying role-players, and Baynes seems popular in the locker room. But the team still seems to care a lot about 2015 cap space, and I doubt they want to throw away a max slot because Baynes is taking up $2-3 Million. They've already jeopardized it with Patty's deal.

Also, the Spurs need to figure out how to carry a fourth PG. Baynes leaving is the easiest way to free up a slot, but it's probably not the way they prefer, hence they they haven't made a decision.

extending the QO is them making the decision, imo

[cd021]

How much do you think we want to pay Baynes? Every time that I've said the Spurs should give him a slight raise, the number I've been thinking is something like 500K. If he wants much more than that, then I'd probably let him walk too. I'm not talking about giving Baynes anywhere near the 3+mil Bonner got for being a niche player, no way, but I think a slight raise after winning the Championship isn't that much to ask, is it?

The guy played in a few playoff games and did OK in most of the minutes he got out there. After winning the championship, I think a slight raise is worth it. I also do think he can help against some teams like Houston, OKC, Portland, those type of teams.

For the rest of you that want him back, how much do you guys think the Spurs should pay him? Should they offer him a slight raise, or not give him a cent more than they are offering?

I would think that they offer stands as is. For $1 million for one season with him potentially reaching RFA again next season. If he plays well then the Spurs would likely extend another QA and probably agree to a longer term deal.

The Spurs need a solid, cheap backup for Splitter going forward.

[anakha]

I don't have to resort to lying to make my points, but then you prove that the truth hurts.
If you don't want to continue your derailing then shut the up, it's that easy.
Keep your opinions about me to yourself, but you're so butthurt and anal you can't.
You haven't the guts to admit that I humiliated chump, instead you lie about it.

Christmas troll still trying to derail the thread with his incessant ing.

How pathetic that he presents himself as a 'decent poster' but s up threads as badly as the trolls he constantly rails against.

Here's an update from McCarney on Twitter:

As translated by RealGM, last re-tweet from well-known Turkish reporter has Baynes hoping to re-sign with SA, but exploring other options.