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Talk out of your ass some more please.Yes they are unassailable issues, there ain't no ing charity for countries who can't pay their back. Do you even understand politics and finance?
Yeah you're not making any sense, why don't you go ahead and explain to us how getting a loan from the IMF is going to force Russia to sell.
Talk out of your ass some more please.Yes they are unassailable issues, there ain't no ing charity for countries who can't pay their back. Do you even understand politics and finance?
You are talking as if Russia cutting off Ukraine gas supply is something unprecedented: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Ru...kraine_cut_off Russia will not cut it off until winter comes.
Whatever infrastructure they plan to build it won't be ready for this winter (they will probably not even start it by then) and Ukraine has already ac ulated several billions of debt paying subsidized gas prices - what makes you think they will be able to afford them at the market rate?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadom...ring-collapse/Ukraine also faces enormous problems re-paying its debts, a substantial portion of which are denominated in dollars and other foreign currencies. Although it attracted little attention at the time, when it bought $3 billion worth of bonds at the end of 2013 Russia inserted a clause that stipulates that the total volume of Ukrainian state-guaranteed debt cannot exceed 60% of its annual GDP. If that threshold is breached, Russia can legally demand repayments on an accelerated schedule. Given the parlous state of the Ukrainian economy and its government’s extremely weak finances, this essentially means that if Ukraine’s debt exceeds 60% of its GDP Russia can legally force it to default.
If it happened in 2009, then so what if it happens again? The end of the Ukranian world did not happen that January.
Washington and Brussels can finance a billion dollars quite easily. I don't think the trade policy between Ukraine and Russia can be boiled down to it all being free gas for Ukraine either. You keep trying to paint this picture of Ukrainian dependence on Russia but I just see that as missing the point of Ukraine joining the EU and/or NATO.
Russia warns EU of Ukraine gas shortage
Russia says there is a risk that gas shortages this winter could force Ukraine to siphon off supplies of Russian gas meant for EU customers.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28979642
Today Slovakia started testing reverse flow on pipeline towards Ukraine. Ukraine can now import natural gas from EU.
In not so good news Ukraine announced electricity restrictions due to lack of coal/production capability - it's mostly in the east. 4 hours/day without power.
No the cut-off lasted less than three weeks, before they folded so the impact was not that great - oh and the people in charge lost the elections next year. I never said it's only about gas - they are also losing a big chunk of their market - and the products they sell to Russia cannot be sold in EU, if they could sell them to EU they would already be selling them in EU. The imported good from Russia will no doubt be replaced, but it will be more expensive goods instead of cheap russian crap. And Ukraine is nowhere near ready to join EU, it will take at least a decade to be ready and that's ignoring the current events (war and possible economic collapse). So to sum up the unemployment will rise, the wages will go down, the prices will go up and on top of that they will freeze their butts off. And you think a couple of billions will fix that and save their government?
The future of Ukraine was in joining EU, but they went about it in just about the worst possible way and sadly their people will pay/are already paying for mistakes of their leaders who tried to force the issue (probably with much encouraging from USA and their EU lackeys).
That works both ways. You act like Russian is not risking anything. 3 weeks in January didn't lead to the end of Ukrainian civilization. You
Ukraine has a large manufacturing base of their own. You act like no one else would buy them but Russia at their own cherry trade deal prices or that they are not selling what anywhere else. There is a big gap in your narrative and anytime there is one you fill it in with Russian supposed supremacy.
EU are US lackeys?
Your Russina pom poms are cute. Ukrainians still hate Russian invasions.
sanctions on russia dont do to them when the ppl wont stand up revolt
look at the stats like north kore, or axis of evil/commies...they seem to be dong well especially those into power held seats of govt...
Russian President Vladimir Putin, Ukraine President Petro Poroshenko Reach Cease-Fire Agreement
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/03/russia-ukraine_n_5757090.html
This should REALLY piss off the war-loving wannabe Macho Men of ST and the Repugs.
Boots did you read it?
It means next to nothing.
Russia is accepting of a ceasefire because they are not involved? Seriously?
Just like Crimea was the people rising up, and then, it wasn't.
It is now a successful Russian land grab. Acknowledged by the Russians, NOW.
But....but......Russia isn't directly involved!!
This doesn't mean jack- to the separatists. They'll continue to do what they want with the weapons of the "uninvolved" Russians.
And no, facile cowards like boutons can rarely be bothered to read past a headline.
the "truce" is being retracted, and the blood-thirsty, war-mongering, murderous American right-wingers are rejoicing.
and what exactly do you right-wingers want the USA/EU to do in Ukraine?
We already know spending many $100Bs in hardware and training in Iraq did essentially nothing to build a solid Iraqi military. Is the Ukraine military any more credible?
Escalation by the West will certainly delay, or kill, any diplomatic resolution.
You schoolyard adolescents should stop playing "my is bigger than your " games with Putin, esp when it's not your s in front-line danger.
Sorry, boutons but appeasement is not correct response to foreign policy goals of lying thug who supports far-right parties in Europe and USA. It wasn't in 1939 and it isn't in 2014.
Putin will take control of eastern Ukraine/Russian ethnic areas, formally or de facto.
How many $100Bs and "other peoples' lives" do you want to waste to try to stop him?
1939?
I never said it will not affect Russia, it most certainly will - this very thread started with the news that it had, but Russia is a bit bigger economically and not so dependant on Ukraine and they have a better chance of surviving the conflict. Who would buy Ukrainian crap and why are they not selling to them now? EU has a lot of standards and regulations that are not easy to adhere to. For many things (like food) selling stuff in EU is not a simple proposition.That works both ways. You act like Russian is not risking anything. 3 weeks in January didn't lead to the end of Ukrainian civilization. You
Ukraine has a large manufacturing base of their own. You act like no one else would buy them but Russia at their own cherry trade deal prices or that they are not selling what anywhere else. There is a big gap in your narrative and anytime there is one you fill it in with Russian supposed supremacy.
Your Russina pom poms are cute. Ukrainians still hate Russian invasions.
I may have gone overboard with accusing the EU leaders of being lackeys, but the unity of EU countries when we can barely agree on anything to me clearly shows a lot of pressure is being applied to keep everyone in line - and that kind of pressure can only be applied by USA. Further i'm worried by the actions of USA+Europe that are designed to escalate the conflict not defuse. I worry because Russia is one of Slovenia's main export targets and we're still digging out of recession - if this goes any further we may soon need some of those billions.
I don't see where i had my russian pom-poms out. I simply stated that i believe if there is the confict is not resolved until winter the Ukraine government will fall. It's a prediction, if i predict USA will trump Slovenia in basketball, am i rooting for USA? Ukrainians may hate russians, but they will hate the cold more.
In other news:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0R30X120140902
Ukraine may need as much as $19 billion in additional funds from donors if its conflict with pro-Russian separatists continues during 2015, the International Monetary Fund warned on Tuesday.
Even under Kiev's current $17 billion IMF bailout, the Fund said Ukraine will not be able to meet all of its targets due to the ongoing fighting and an intensified gas dispute with Russia, which supplies the bulk of Ukraine's natural gas needs.
...
In a detailed review of Ukraine's progress and the state of its economy, the IMF painted a dire picture of a country trying to reform everything from banking management to the legal system, while also boosting spending on fighting in the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk.
Those regions together accounted for 23 percent of Ukraine's industrial production and 14.5 percent of its retail trade in the first quarter. The IMF said it expects gross domestic product in eastern Ukraine to decline by 15 to 20 percent this year, compared to a 6.5 percent decline for the country as a whole.
I'm confused. To who do you reffer here as thugs supporting far-right parties? Because Svoboda which is in Ukraine gorenment is anti-semitic and about as far right as possible.
To Russia. Ukraine certainly has far-right, like any other European country, but its prominence has been strongly overblown by Russian propaganda. In USA it's mostly circle around Ron Paul that is on Russia's pay-list.
Six Italian far right groups have sponsored the posters saying "Rome is with Putin" and "Obama is an unwelcome guest": Roma Nord, Movimento Sociale Europeo, Contro Tempo, XX Flotta, Comunità Militante Formello, Ostia.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/wo...e.html?hp&_r=0
Hungary’s Jobbik, one of Europe’s most extreme nationalist parties and a noisy cheerleader for Moscow, is now under investigation by the Hungarian authorities amid allegations that it has received funding from Russia and, in a case involving one of its leading candidates for the European Parliament, that it has worked for Russian intelligence.
“Russia has become the hope of the world against new totalitarianism,” Mr. Chauprade, the National Front’s top European Parliament candidate for the Paris region, said in a speech to Russia’s Parliament in Moscow last year.
When Crimea held a referendum in March on whether the peninsula should secede from Ukraine and join Russia, Mr. Chauprade joined a team of election monitors organized by a pro-Russian outfit in Belgium, the Eurasian Observatory for Elections and Democracy. The team, which pronounced the referendum free and fair, also included members of Austria’s far-right Freedom Party; a Flemish nationalist group in Belgium; and the Jobbik politician in Hungary accused of spying for Russia.
Luc Michel, the Belgian head of the Eurasian Observatory, which receives some financial support from Russian companies but promotes itself as independent and apolitical, champions the establishment of a new “Eurasian” alliance, stretching from Vladivostok in Russia to Lisbon in Portugal and purged of American influence. The National Front, preoccupied with recovering sovereign powers surrendered to Brussels, has shown little enthusiasm for a new Eurasian bloc. But it, too, bristles at Europe’s failure to project itself as a global player independent from America, and looks to Russia for help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luc_Michel
Luc Michel (born 1958) is a far-right Belgian political activist and supporter of the ideas of the Nazi-collaborator Jean-François Thiriart (having been his personal secretary). He is the current leader and founder of the Parti Communautaire National-Européen as well as a former member of the néo-nazi movement Fédération d'action nationaliste et européenne.
And this blog as a whole:
http://anton-shekhovtsov.blogspot.co.uk/
Last edited by xeromass; 09-03-2014 at 10:17 AM.
Yes, 1939. Telegraph reprinted an article first published on 4th September 1939
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/w...itselfWor.html
To the last hour the German Government has maintained the lying propaganda by which it can no longer hope to deceive the opinion of the world. In the reply to the British ultimatum it is stated that “the British Government nullified all German attempts at a peaceful settlement,” although the effort to bring about reasonable negotiation has persisted to a point that alarmed public opinion everywhere. Equally false to every known fact it the allegation that the British Government approved and encouraged the Polish steps, whatever these are alleged to be, against Danzig and the German minority. In these matters the truth is on record and beyond argument; it would be to give too much credit to German belief in the sincerity of its own cause to recite again the stages by which the attack on a weaker nation has been deliberately prepared and launched with cold calculation of the most favourable moment. The world will judge – the patience on the one side in face of extreme provocation, the brutal determination on the other to achieve its ends without compunction or regard for any of the conventions that make international consultations tolerable.
Sounds familiar?
Russia getting Reagan'd again
EU will take a step further.Russian rouble falls to new low on sanctions threat
The Russian rouble fell to a record low against the dollar as investors fear further sanctions against the nation.
The rouble fell to 37.03 per dollar on Friday, its worst valuation since the currency was restructured in 1998.
More: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28986360
---------------
http://news.yahoo.com/eu-assesses-sp...--finance.html
As will the US.
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/0...0R43M620140903
Even France, which has been thus far un willing to give up the billions of dollars for the ships it has promised Russia has decided that Russia has gone too far.
http://www.starnewsonline.com/articl...ship-to-Russia
Overall, I would agree with the Economist.
http://www.economist.com/news/europe...w-lose-friends
This recent comment was of the recent lock on short term financing. The next steps will likely be far harsher.The Kremlin proudly claims it will aim to replace Western goods and services with domestic ones, for instance in high-tech parts for the arms industry. Import subs ution could work if manufacturers weren’t running at near-full capacity and in dire need of new investment, which will be in shorter supply as foreign financing shrinks. The country’s $173 billion in sovereign-wealth funds, built up over years of windfall profits from oil sales, will be drawn down to stabilise the rouble and pay off the debts of state banks and firms. “It won’t kill us, but it will create problems,” says the United Russia deputy.
Putin has gone on and taken steps to arguably make his own people's lives worse off, and when ordinary Russians find out just how badly they have been lied to, Putin's reputation will be badly damaged.
What i don't understand is what is the end game? What if Putin's Russia collapses? Does he start nuking in the attempt to remain in power? Or do we see a total collapse ala soviet union 2.0 and everyone is panicking, because massive amounts of weapons are floding the hot spots around the world? What is to be gained by pushing Russia's regime on the edge, by putting them in a no win scenario? Russia is weak but they still has some teeth and nothing is more dangerous than a scared and cornered animal.
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