40% of animals on Planet Earth are gone thanks to us

[Chinook]

Nope selfish is human feeling octopus is not selfish like cat is not cruel

It's not (or may not be). But looking out for you kids is selfish in the same way that an animal sacrificing their lives to save their kin is in their best interests. It "altruistic" behavior were not beneficial to individuals, then it would not have been selected. So that's why humans as a group looking toward future generations isn't selfless. It's just gene preservation on a large scale.

But individually, people do good things because it makes them feel good. I've never heard of a person continually volunteering a soup kitchen who hates doing it and who gets no benefit from the experience.

[Brazil]

You mean find pleasure and feels good being altruist ? Of course but the initial purpose is altruism, feeling good is a reward not the motor of an altruist action. I dislike carrying my own bags for shopping but I do it because that's the right thing to do, it's a small inconvenient for an higher purpose. Then I feel good about it that's my sweetener not the motive of my action. Selfish people will continue use plastic bags because they don't give a damn and don't want to handle dat small annoyance.

[lefty]

Plastic bags FTW


Earth

[SnakeBoy]

Sure, but that difference is pretty minute in the grand scheme. People aren't destroying the environment because they want to. It's just the result of the needs of an ever-growing population. We can slow down the destruction by taking certain measures. We've already done that and need to continue to do so. But we will eventually reach a point where the planet can no longer sustain us, and we'll crash. That's just regular old ecology right there.

No, populations expanding and contracting is regular old ecology. No doubt there are pandemics in our future that will take out 30-50% of the population and natural disasters that will take their toll but it is difficult to imagine a scenario in which humans go extinct as long as the planet is capable of sustaining life. We are one of the most adaptable organisms on the planet and at this point we are too advanced to simply fade away from lack of resources.

[rogues]

Chinook is one of the most overrated posters on the site, tbh.. ty, paragraph long takes about subjects he knows nothing of..

[TDMVPDPOY]

i blame the chinese or asian slant eye gooks who believe in eating exotic animals will give them some long health benefits...

[SnakeBoy]

i blame the chinese or asian slant eye gooks who believe in eating exotic animals will give them some long health benefits...

They mostly do it in hopes of making their s bigger .

[spurraider21]

Chinook is one of the most overrated posters on the site, tbh.. ty, paragraph long takes about subjects he knows nothing of..

forgotten pup wants attention, trying to stir up to no avail

[Thebesteva]

They mostly do it in hopes of making their s bigger .

i blame the chinese or asian slant eye gooks who believe in eating exotic animals will give them some long health benefits...

[Chinook]

No, populations expanding and contracting is regular old ecology. No doubt there are pandemics in our future that will take out 30-50% of the population and natural disasters that will take their toll but it is difficult to imagine a scenario in which humans go extinct as long as the planet is capable of sustaining life. We are one of the most adaptable organisms on the planet and at this point we are too advanced to simply fade away from lack of resources.

What part of "crash" means completely die-off? If you don't think that losing half the population to in a short period of time is a crash, I don't know what to tell you.

I think you missed the point, though. I was saying that humans will continue to destroy the planet as long as they keep growing. They can slow down the rate of destruction with conservationist measures, but until the population reaches a point where the planet can no longer sustain us, we'll have to keep moving toward killing off everything else. You're right that we're not like other animals, that we are adaptable. That's why we'll drive the planet to extinction. Most animals begin to die off when they run out of space in their preferred environment or food in their area. We adapt by changing the environment and forcing more food into the area. So we'll have to bleed the planet dry before we crash.

[Chinook]

Chinook is one of the most overrated posters on the site, tbh.. ty, paragraph long takes about subjects he knows nothing of..

Only one who's bothered to rate me is your boy Harlem. Sorry that I can't have your glorious bandwagon takes.

[Chinook]

You mean find pleasure and feels good being altruist ? Of course but the initial purpose is altruism, feeling good is a reward not the motor of an altruist action. I dislike carrying my own bags for shopping but I do it because that's the right thing to do, it's a small inconvenient for an higher purpose. Then I feel good about it that's my sweetener not the motive of my action. Selfish people will continue use plastic bags because they don't give a damn and don't want to handle dat small annoyance.

There are multiple ways to be selfish. It's not just about getting the immediate benefit. It's also about doing thing that make you happy. I can pretty much guarantee you that if being altruistic felt terrible to you, if the idea that you're doing something for a bigger cause made you sick, that you wouldn't keep doing it. At some level, you're being altruistic because it benefits you, physically, emotionally, intellectually, financially. There's nothing wrong with that idea, either.

[SnakeBoy]

What part of "crash" means completely die-off? If you don't think that losing half the population to in a short period of time is a crash, I don't know what to tell you.

The part where you said "once humans die off". You haven't been talking about a population decline in this thread.

I think you missed the point, though. I was saying that humans will continue to destroy the planet as long as they keep growing. They can slow down the rate of destruction with conservationist measures, but until the population reaches a point where the planet can no longer sustain us, we'll have to keep moving toward killing off everything else. You're right that we're not like other animals, that we are adaptable. That's why we'll drive the planet to extinction. Most animals begin to die off when they run out of space in their preferred environment or food in their area. We adapt by changing the environment and forcing more food into the area. So we'll have to bleed the planet dry before we crash.

Cool story but we aren't killing off "everything else". We're having an effect on the environment and because of that some species are struggling while others are thriving. You can go look at an invasive species list for examples of plants and animals that are thriving because of the actions of mankind despite our efforts to try to kill them off.

[Brazil]

There are multiple ways to be selfish. It's not just about getting the immediate benefit. It's also about doing thing that make you happy. I can pretty much guarantee you that if being altruistic felt terrible to you, if the idea that you're doing something for a bigger cause made you sick, that you wouldn't keep doing it. At some level, you're being altruistic because it benefits you, physically, emotionally, intellectually, financially. There's nothing wrong with that idea, either.

we already went through this

yes at some level it benefits you but in a way but in most of the case of plastic bags or other topic linked to environment that's not the motor of your action, altruism is

[rogues]

Only one who's bothered to rate me is your boy Harlem. Sorry that I can't have your glorious bandwagon takes.

The only reason Harlem sees you in a positive light is because you use advanced metrics in most of your basketball takes, which is understandable..in other threads, like this one, you speak out of your ass..

[Chinook]

The only reason Harlem sees you in a positive light is because you use advanced metrics in most of your basketball takes, which is understandable..in other threads, like this one, you speak out of your ass..

Nah. He actually liked that I agreed with him on Memphis being an awful team last year. If I recall correctly, that's what I said that made you "call me out" initially.

[Chinook]

we already went through this

yes at some level it benefits you but in a way but in most of the case of plastic bags or other topic linked to environment that's not the motor of your action, altruism is

I just think you're being a little disingenuous with yourself, no offense. Altruism itself is not a motivator just like "good food" isn't. You do altruistic things because it satisfies you in some way.

[Chinook]

The part where you said "once humans die off". You haven't been talking about a population decline in this thread.

Humans will die off eventually. It's just inevitable. I guess we can agree to disagree on that.

Cool story but we aren't killing off "everything else". We're having an effect on the environment and because of that some species are struggling while others are thriving. You can go look at an invasive species list for examples of plants and animals that are thriving because of the actions of mankind despite our efforts to try to kill them off.

Yes. I studied ecology in school. Some species are going well, and some are dying off. But we haven't even begun to hit the critical stages of population growth yet. It will get a lot worse than it is now if the population keep expanding without our territory expanding along with it.

[The Reckoning]

check mate, mother nature

[gnsf0946]

So nature can survive an asteroid and ice age but it can't survive cows farting?

[spurraider21]

So nature can survive an asteroid and ice age but it can't survive cows farting?

Humans can get punched shot and stabbed and survive but they can't survive a little virus?

[russellgoat]

Why the should I give a about future generations if I'm not going to have children anyway. Not to mention the percentage of human population of people I dislike (Nigerians, Filipinos) is increasing.

[Franklin]

^ you're my comrade,

[z0sa]

Not saying that at all. Saying it depends on perspective. The earth will recover no matter what we do (short of literally blowing the planet apart). So conservationism is a selfish human desire, and not an altruistic one. We want to save the planet for us, or for the things that make us happy. We don't want to save it because we're actually at risk of destroying it.

And yes, I am a conversationalist (political leaning, not job description) who went to college to study ecology.

There wont be any more sentient life - indeed, there may be no life at all - if we affect climate changes on the scope of completely eliminating our own species. You dont need to "blow the earth apart" to permanently end any chance of life thriving on its surface. This idea of the earth inevitably recovering regardless of how much we it up is contrary to scientific fact. Cosmically speaking, examples of this abound - just look at Venus for a once earth like planet that is now permanently unhabitable due to atmospheric changes. This is why the issue of transitioning our civilization from reliance on fossil fuels into clean energy sources is so incredibly important. As an amateur (I hope) ecologist, you should be more than aware of this.

[Chinook]

There wont be any more sentient life - indeed, there may be no life at all - if we affect climate changes on the scope of completely eliminating our own species. You dont need to "blow the earth apart" to permanently end any chance of life thriving on its surface. This idea of the earth inevitably recovering regardless of how much we it up is contrary to scientific fact. Cosmically speaking, examples of this abound - just look at Venus for a once earth like planet that is now permanently unhabitable due to atmospheric changes. This is why the issue of transitioning our civilization from reliance on fossil fuels into clean energy sources is so incredibly important. As an amateur (I hope) ecologist, you should be more than aware of this.

Venus is not Earth. It's too close to the sun to support life. Mars is too far away. Not to mention that Mars doesn't have an atmosphere and Venus has superheated gasses that are almost liquid due to their density. Nothing that we're projected to due with CO2 levels comes close. The Old Earth had a much higher CO2 concentration (due to freaking volcanoes shooting out poisonous gasses for billions of years), and it was just fine. The reason why we were able to evolve is because the wildlife/microbes balanced out the gasses. They'll do so again when we're no longer around. Humans (Earth humans, anyway) will die off long before the world does.

If you were an ecologist, you would know what I'm talking about, instead of buying the mainstream argument that we're risking all life on the planet. What we're risking is the paradigm that has allowed all to take over a thrive. But we're nowhere near putting the Earth in a position like it was 200 Million years ago, and especially 2 Billion years ago.