Those two things don't equal each other. For all they show, Kawhi could have been passing up open shots whenever he got the ball, which would drive down his assist rate. Or he could have immediately gone into the post and taken five seconds to shoot, which would also drive down the assist rate.
Duncan and Splitter are bigs, and Green is a shooter. Of course they are going to have high assist rates, since they usually shoot whenever they touch the ball (and are very efficient at doing so). Leonard and especially Ginobili are more likely to drive when they catch the ball, which will often result in the passer losing an assist opportunity.
Plus, when you're talking about running a PnR, Leonard would probably be the worst option to pass it to (besides perhaps the non-screening big). The roll-man has a shot at the basket while Green is one of the best three-point shooters in the league. Unless Kawhi's in big-head mode, you almost have to go to those guys when they're open before passing it to Leonard, especially early in the year when he couldn't shoot.
Indeed, and I think we'll see that occur more often. No reason why Leonard should be ignored when he has a mismatch, and that obviously happened a lot last year. But the Spurs need to stay away from making Leonard another Melo on offense, at least until they're rebuilding.
Leonard is his own person with his own personality. Can't believe people are complaining about him. Do people want him to just be quiet and run corner to corner ala RJ or something? Leonard wants the ball more and that's a sign of a winner. He hasn't caused any rift by saying he wants the ball. Does it appear he has a different personality than lets say Tim? Sure, but he's the future and to see that he isn't afraid of the spotlight and pressure is a very welcoming sight. Does this mean he gets a pass at bad shot selection? No, but lets not act like he's the only one who takes bad shots on the team. Criticism for Leonard is not warranted at all right now but Chinook has never liked Kawhi. That's pretty obvious if you have been keeping up with these boards the last three years.
Kawhi needs and deserves just as many shots as anyone on the team this year. Him and Parker should be 1a and 1b in shot attempts. It is up to Pop to find him shots. If anything, Pop will deserve more criticism if Kawhi is forcing up shots because that means Pop is not utilizing him correctly and still hasn't incorporated him into the offense which would be a huge mistake. I think they will all figure it out and be fine though.
Yeah the situation is more fragile than it looks on the outside.
Pop will probably start Boris to give Kawhi more room and then he should run the 1-3 PnR which he never does for some reason...
Boris is the one guy that doesn't give a about his shots and who you can trust to make the "right" pass so in a (my) perfect world Pop would run everything through him and everyone else would be OK with his bball instinct distributing the shots between everyone else.
I've had little problem with Kawhi himself. I've just never liked people anointing him the future of the franchise. I don't think he's good enough, at least by himself. What I don't like is him saying multiple times in one interview how much he wants the ball/ playing time, especially when he mentioned how the Spurs said they were going to make him a bigger part of the offense last year and didn't. That completely ignored the slump that Leonard began the year in, during which Pop tried giving Kawhi and Green more touches in more dynamic situations.
Kawhi has to get better before he deserves minutes. I understand that his splits show he's a better player as he gets more time (which almost no one even mentions surprisingly). But qualitatively speaking, he needs to be more consistent and better able to score in situations that don't require him to use so many possessions. I think he is already a great player, and he'll be even better. But it's hard to side with him complaining about minutes when the Spurs have four starting-caliber wings and one of the better three-big rotations, AND play in so many blowouts that everyone's MPG is relatively small.
I think youre overrating his ability to create his shot at this point.
If I respond...then you'll talk about hockey assists or some like that and I've said before I gonna kill myself if people continue mentioning those things.
I agree. I think what people are overrating most is the level to which Kawhi is a mismatch. Leonard's a good physical specimen, but the only elite tanglible he has for his position is wingspan. (He's a great player because he has tremendous intanglibles.) Most SFs should be able to do a pretty good job at checking Kawhi unless he goes into big-head mode like he did in the Finals.
Leonard's strong enough to the point that he can score in the post. He's fast enough and can handle well enough to where he can score off the dribble. But are Leonard post-ups against guys his on size or Leonard pull-ups with the defense in his face good shots? Not by the Spurs' standards. What Kawhi excels at are shots that are only really efficient when he has a mismatch (a small in the post or a big on the perimeter), which is something that can only be game-planned for so much.
If he starts taking more shots then you can bet your ass pop will be on it. Pop controls his team like no one else. Pop will tell Kawhi if he's taking too many shots, not enough, or just right. Which is why I don't understand why players like Parker used to get for taking too may shots. That's what Pop wanted and that's what Pop got.
I think it's understandable to a degree that he is a bit frustrated when Pop himself admitted he called a whopping 2 plays for him all season long. Especially when he sees Tony and Manu get an abundance of plays called for them every game. It's still up to Pop to find ways to get him the ball in spots where he can be successful. If Leonard start to miss all his attempts and the team ends up being worse off than criticism would be warranted. He's young and obviously doesn't have the best interpersonal skills and some things might have been better unsaid to media outlets but that's a part of a young player growing as well. Like I said earlier, the fact that he wants the ball and clearly isn't at a lack of confidence is a great sign for his future development. Winners want the ball.Kawhi has to get better before he deserves minutes. I understand that his splits show he's a better player as he gets more time (which almost no one even mentions surprisingly). But qualitatively speaking, he needs to be more consistent and better able to score in situations that don't require him to use so many possessions. I think he is already a great player, and he'll be even better. But it's hard to side with him complaining about minutes when the Spurs have four starting-caliber wings and one of the better three-big rotations, AND play in so many blowouts that everyone's MPG is relatively small.
I am not asking to give the ball to him and get out of the way every play but it doesn't hurt to put him in that situation at some points. That's how you get better as a player. Pop needs to figure out ways to get him the ball where he can be effective. Moving him around the court and creating a mismatch is key instead of sitting him in the corner. He's clearly shown flashes in the post, especially when he has a smaller defender on him.
That's where I feel a potential problem would occur. It doesn't make a ton of sense to pencil Kawhi in for touches, because he doesn't force a rotation with his style of play (unless there's already a mismatch). It makes a lot more sense to let Parker drive and kick when the defense collapses on him. I honestly feel that it's extremely hard to run a successful offense through a wing, which is both why James is so incredible and why the Thunder can't seem to keep Durant involved consistently when Westbrook's on the floor. If Leonard can't move the defense, then his possessions are either going to end in isolations or in a PnR, which Parker would be better at doing.
I've really wanted Kawhi to set more PnR screens, since that could easily force the type of switch necessary to get him a mismatch in the post. Also, since Leonard can shoot well, he could pop to keep the defense honest. I think using him that way makes a lot more sense than giving him the ball at the beginning of plays.
Or just he couldn't get the ball, he couldn't have received the ball...That could be the simple and logical reason (even more if you look his usage rate).
An open three-point isn't the only way to finish the pick-and-roll...Plus, when you're talking about running a PnR, Leonard would probably be the worst option to pass it to (besides perhaps the non-screening big). The roll-man has a shot at the basket while Green is one of the best three-point shooters in the league. Unless Kawhi's in big-head mode, you almost have to go to those guys when they're open before passing it to Leonard, especially early in the year when he couldn't shoot.
I agree with the heart of your post. I think that it's a good thing for Kawhi to want the ball more. But I imagine everyone on the team wants that. They're all better players than the roles they play. It's a zero-sum game when it comes to dolling out minutes/touches. A consistent and vocal campaign for the ball is not a good thing for a team where everyone at least tries to leave their egos at the door. I don't think it's bad yet, and don't assume it's going to get bad, but we'll see. The last time the Spurs had a young-ish FMVP, he became the star of the team rather quickly. That may not happen with Leonard.
As I said to Rob, I think running a 1/3 PnR would be the best way to get Leonard the touches he wants. It would require a stretch-four be on the floor to give the proper spacing, but it should force the PG to switch onto Leonard in the high-post area. Then all Kawhi has to do is establish position can call for the pass, provided Parker hasn't scored or kicked the ball out to a shooter.
Usage rate only talks about ended possessions. So if Kawhi is tentative and passes the ball off for a non-assist, it wouldn't be counted in his usage rate. Anyway, if Kawhi isn't open, why is that Parker's problem?
No. It's the third option. The first is the PG scoring, which Parker is about the best in the league at doing. The second is the roll-man finishing, and Splitter and Duncan are very good at both scoring and putting themselves in position to receive the pass. A kick-out is probably going to be to a shooter beyond the arc. If you had a choice on who you wanted to shoot from distance, it would probably be Green. More importantly, Green is more likely to generate an assist from a Parker kick-out, both because Leonard is not as good of a shooter and because Leonard is more likely to kill the assist opportunity by driving.An open three-point isn't the only way to finish the pick-and-roll...
I couldn't have said it any better...
All thread is about why Kawhi doesn't receive the ball when he's open...
Well, that's what we are talking about...those aren't permanent or no way fixed options. I expect Pop finds another variations to involve Kawhi.No. It's the third option. The first is the PG scoring, which Parker is about the best in the league at doing. The second is the roll-man finishing, and Splitter and Duncan are very good at both scoring and putting themselves in position to receive the pass. A kick-out is probably going to be to a shooter beyond the arc. If you had a choice on who you wanted to shoot from distance, it would probably be Green. More importantly, Green is more likely to generate an assist from a Parker kick-out, both because Leonard is not as good of a shooter and because Leonard is more likely to kill the assist opportunity by driving.
It happened a lot, more than was necessary. No one's debating that. The issue most were talking about is whether it was intentional on Parker's part, which the stats don't suggest. I was talking about whether Kawhi deserves to be a first option, which sort of became a side issue.
I mean options to be in a progression, not as things to choose among equally. Leonard is about the last person Parker should pass it to on a PnR. He's just not going to be all that efficient unless he's parked in a corner (and even then, he was terrible to start last season shooting). Threes and shots at the rim are the best ones to get in basketball.Well, that's what we are talking about...those aren't permanent or no way fixed options. I expect Pop finds another variations to involve Kawhi.
Again, the goal of involving Kawhi should be to improve the team. Right now, Leonard's go-to shots aren't really as good as the ones most other players take. If you can get a Duncan touch in the paint or an open Green three, you do that before you give it to Leonard at the elbow. I think there are ways to get Leonard in good position, but by no means is that an automatic improvement to the offense.
That's what lm saying...TP / manu with Duncan or splitter run one of the most efficient P&R of the league. That's a huge part of Spurs offense, from there when defense collapse whether guards or bigs kick out to open 3 pts shooter where Danny is lethal. To get more touches for Kawhi without running isos solution could be ito involve Kawhi on those P&R.
This has nothing to do with parker not willing to give a freaking assist to Leonard.
We all agree Kawhi needs more touches, team must find ways without disrupting what make Spurs so successful.
It's good to know we're talking about different things...Intentional isn't related to a lack of passing skills or court vision.
Sometimes improvement is a matter of trial and error, he needs the oportunities to learn from mistakes because he's the only true two-way wing player on the team, the younger with the highest ceiling.I mean options to be in a progression, not as things to choose among equally. Leonard is about the last person Parker should pass it to on a PnR. He's just not going to be all that efficient unless he's parked in a corner(and even then, he was terrible to start last season shooting). Threes and shots at the rim are the best ones to get in basketball.
Again, the goal of involving Kawhi should be to improve the team. Right now, Leonard's go-to shots aren't really as good as the ones most other players take. If you can get a Duncan touch in the paint or an open Green three, you do that before you give it to Leonard at the elbow. I think there are ways to get Leonard in good position, but by no means is that an automatic improvement to the offense.
Kawhi's development should be a priority to improve the team and the key to the Spurs future (just remember that we won't sign a superstar next summer)
I add "unless he's parked in a corner" to "hockey assists" like the things I never want to read again.
Tony needs to pull a DRob when Tim came around, tbh... Realize he'll win more prioritizing the future of the franchise over his own ego. Pop already started to work the psychological angle during the Finals with the "good leadership" babble, it's clear they expect the torch to be passed, we just gotta hope Tony understands the not so subliminal message...
/bluefont
What does that have to do with anything? We know Parker can pass.
The only part I agree on is that Leonard needs to develop. Everything else is Kawhi-homer talk.Sometimes improvement is a matter of trial and error, he needs the oportunities to learn from mistakes because he's the only true two-way wing player on the team, the younger with the highest ceiling.
Kawhi's development should be a priority to improve the team and the key to the Spurs future (just remember that we won't sign a superstar next summer)
So?I add "unless he's parked in a corner" to "hockey assists" like the things I never want to read again.
So why doesn't he pass when Kawhi is wide open or against a 6'0 while he has a wing defender on him?
Why did Leonard jack up a contested jumper from the short corner when he had four open teammates?
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