On a more serious note though, the waiting is beneficial for the Spurs (solely, I guess). Forces Leonard to up his game and gives them an opportunity to pay a lower price in case no one scoops him up for the max next year (highly unlikely).
I might open a can of worms with this question, but would you guys say Kawhi > Paul George?
Because if you think he is, then I think a max deal should be automatic, if you don't think he is, then it's probably more debatable...
They didn't win the last finals with him just standing in the corner.
But you're right he should sign with another team, he should force a trade.
After all being a 5th options as you said, the Spurs won't lose nothing if he leaves, just the only guy on the team who can to play successfully on both ends against the best player in the league.
Agree with you, I can't wait to watch Leonard defending Manu or Beli next playoffs, or being part of some next Big 3 in a Cali team.
Supply and demand dictate the salaries, that's how the market works, but you're right other teams aren't the NBA market, only the Spurs.
Seriously...
Last edited by wildchild; 10-27-2014 at 07:06 PM.
George can create for himself on offense and will avg ~25ppg for a majority of his career, and I can't say that Leonard is better than George until I see a lot more out of him on offense.
George is giving up a little on defence but George is a much better offensive player at this point. They're both easily max players.
I hate the term 'max' because people seem to get confused. Would Kawhi be worth a $125m/5yr max that Bosh or Melo got? I'd argue probably not, but he's absolutely worth $90m/5yr
Agree, but I said that because guys here acting like the 2015 cap space will be a sort of miracle which will allow the Spurs to sign every FA they want.
His max would be set to the cap next year, right (with 7.5% annual raises)? So assuming it goes to $66.5mm, that would mean a year one salary of $16.625mm and a final year number at $22.2mm (five years / $96.6mm) even if it were agreed to now - it would be set based on next year's cap. If the cap were to jump even more the following year, it would be more team-friendly.
Either way, he's earned max money and guys like this don't grow on trees. Give it to him, even if you wait until you see how FA plays out next year first to try to keep his lower cap number.
True. Max contracts and max extensions mean different things depending on the situation. I think when people say that Kawhi isn't a max player, they really mean that he isn't a franchise player. He's not a franchise player, there are very few of those in the NBA at any given time and they earn that designation by performing at the very highest level for a very long time.
Max players are created every summer by the economic cir stances of a league with rapidly rising revenues, the distribution of which is governed by the current CBA. Under those cir stances, Kawhi is a max player.
I swear...threads like this bring out some tragically bad takes. Worst and best of ST, tbh.
What's about Leonard=George? They should extend him or not?
I don't like Paul George as centerpice of any offense, we all know what happend last season. I think the same about Leonard, I see them like a part of a power perimeter duo or a part of some big 3 like James/Wade/Bosh max players all of them.
Tough position for the Spurs to be in, tbh..
Kawhi isn't as bad as many people in this thread have stated(posting raw numbers, claiming he's a spot-up shooter, saying he can't be a #2 guy on a le team, etc), and he isn't as good as others have claimed(ranking him by individual winning %
He does still have to prove himself, but it's very difficult to do so in Pop's system, especially since his style of play isn't a natural fit with the Spurs..as Pop himself has said, most of Leonard's contributions, even offensively, are improvised, rather than running plays for him through the system..
OTOH, it would be virtually impossible to replace him..the Spurs are the most team-oriented squad in the history of the NBA, you can point to many individual attributes as the most important, but IMO, the perimeter defense combination of Leonard/Green is the most valuable part of the Spurs' roster..even if Leonard isn't necessarily worth the max extension, it doesn't make any sense to let him walk if you're still planning on contending(which the Spurs are for the next 2-3 seasons)..
Then there's the obvious factor of the market being set..Chandler Parsons' style of play will never win a championship as a top 3 option(he's not good enough offensively, yet doesn't possess the attributes of a high-end role player), yet he's getting paid a ton of money..Gordon Hayward is the same..
Klay Thompson is a glorified 3&D guy, much inferior to Leonard according to virtually all metrics, yet he's easily going to receive a max deal and kill a team's franchise for the future..
Signing Leonard to a max deal may be risky, but at least unlike guys like Parsons and Hayward, worst-case scenario is that even if Kawhi fails as a top 2 option, he can still give you elite defense and rebounding, along with already knowing how to excel in the system at the highest level..
Also, more importantly, the Spurs are a different case, they have already proven that they can win a le without a conventional/traditional "#1/2/3" option..
The Spurs signing Leonard to a huge deal is not the same as virtually any other team doing the same..like Splitter, they would be paying him what he's worth to play his role, whatever Pop wants it to be..on another team, they'll be signing Leonard to be a #1 or #2 guy on a le team, which is obviously much riskier..
^ what he said.
This thread is getting weirder and weirder.
bruh the spurs way has been to luckily stumble upon a top 15 all time player and just ride their ass for 35+ years
it will be amazing how long the "spurs way" will last when duncan/manu hangem up.
keep kawhi tbh... small market teams cant afford to let that kind of talent get away. its been said that signing him to a max now wont be so bad when the new cba kicks in
with cap going up max is what he will get paid
he is worth more then love with the cavs
could you imagine him and james on the same team
I don't want to take literally this but he could rank above every SF in the league no named Lebron/Durant.Tough position for the Spurs to be in, tbh..
Kawhi isn't as bad as many people in this thread have stated(posting raw numbers
Harrison Barnes is there, not the best or worst wing in the league, so basically they'are the same player if Leonard is just in the middle.
No, I meant Kawhi is somewhere in the middle of the extremes in this thread..posters on ST tend to describe him using extremes IMO..
He's easily in the top 5 SFs in the NBA, arguably #3 now that Paul George is finished as a star IMO..
Leonard doesn't strike me as a guy that will hold it against the Spurs next summer if they don't reach a deal this offseason. I don't think there's any financial incentive for them to give him a max deal this year as opposed to next. As such, I doubt anything happens before Friday. Either way I don't see the Spurs screwing this one up. Kawhi will be a well paid Spur for a long while. It's just a matter of when, not if.
I think Kawhi has a leg up on George.
Well played
I thought it was low hanging fruit. I was a little ashamed.
Well played
Well, HH's argument is tough to make in a linear fashion. Sure, the Spurs have proven they can win without a traditional big 3 and as a team, but the questions are two-fold:
1) While the Spurs have won that way, how sustainable is that? It's incredibly rare and almost never been done before.
2) With #1 in mind, did the Spurs system work because of the players they currently have being superstars who were able to unselfishly shift their games to make the system work?
So I don't think it's at all safe to assume that SA, with Tim/TP/Manu gone that they can go on winning with the same strategy because it doesn't seem at all likely you can get a DPG combo again to make that work. Just really tough. Kawhi should be a Spur, but just because other dumb teams make dumb decisions, does not make that market value.
Spurs have to avoid stupid decisions in a small market with their stars on their way out. That would be like saying me buying a 200K house for 1M sets the market for the entire neighborhood. Sure, some idiots may buy the houses at that value, but it doesn't make it a good finanical decision or that every house will go for that much. I understand that some team will make that offer and that's fine - the right thing to do is wait and match that offer then.
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