***** The Official 2014 Avante Football Thread *****

[Clipper Nation]

There is no doubt about it, I can out run Peyton Hillis.

Delusional, old, obese got

[Avante]

if Tim Brown spent a majority of his career with greats like Montana and Young, and Rice spent a majority of his career with bums like Marinovich, Beuerlein, Hostetler, and Jeff George, their numbers would be interesting to compare

Then there's this scenario....what if Jerry Rice had played at ND and Brown at MVS? While Rice was at MVS he and QB Willie Totten were the best QB/receiver duo in the country, obviously being at a small HBCU school they got no press.

Tim Brown was a fantastic player while in HS in Texas, that's when I first heard of him. He didn't have the straight line speed of Rice but was a better runner after the catch. And yes if he'd been a Niner with those QB's his numbers would even more impressive.

[spurraider21]

brown was a punt returner in his earlier days, he knew how to run

[Avante]

Delusional, old, obese got

Not at all, hey little guy I was a sprinter/running back/kick returner/cornerback with far more speed than Peyton Hillis. And I'm still faster than he is. I was a 4.5 40 guy .......on grass.

Ever wonder why I know so much about sprinting? I was a sprinter, a 9.9 yards guy.

[Avante]

brown was a punt returner in his earlier days, he knew how to run

Yeah I know, it was as a return man in HS that I found out about him.

[Avante]

What do we do with Big Ben? Does he belong in the top 10 All Time? Does he belong in there with Elway, Marino, etc? More top 20?

[spurraider21]

What do we do with Big Ben? Does he belong in the top 10 All Time? Does he belong in there with Elway, Marino, etc? More top 20?

tough question. truth be told i have trouble evaluating elway and marino, let alone Ben.

I personally like Marino over Elway, and some people disagree because of their superbowl history...

Elway made 3 superbowls in the 80's but he was pretty terrible in all 3 of them, and in his 2 superbowl wins, Terrell Davis was their best player and by a considerable margin. i don't think Marino ever was able to sit back and rely on the run. his role was a lot like Peyton Manning on the Colts, but with inferior weapons to what Manning had.

Ben is tough, because at his best he's as good as anybody. But you can't count on him to be at that level consistently, so i'd put him behind Marino/Elway. his "lows" are considerably worse than their lows

[Avante]

Now that we have a pretty good read on everyone.

It's all about playing those teams in the playoff mix vs those who aren't.

I'll be playing..

Arizona over St.Louis
Philly over Carolina
Green Bay over Chicago
Baltimore over Tennesse
Pitt over NYJ
Denver over Oakland
Dallas over Jax

The teams on the left are a plus 258 (points for and against) the teams on the left a minus 436.

Don't care what the number is. It's simply good teams playing bad teams. Don't need any trends or "spots". Didn't even
look for any. Good teams thinking playoffs, bad teams can't match the intensity.

[Avante]

tough question. truth be told i have trouble evaluating elway and marino, let alone Ben.

I personally like Marino over Elway, and some people disagree because of their superbowl history...

Elway made 3 superbowls in the 80's but he was pretty terrible in all 3 of them, and in his 2 superbowl wins, Terrell Davis was their best player and by a considerable margin. i don't think Marino ever was able to sit back and rely on the run. his role was a lot like Peyton Manning on the Colts, but with inferior weapons to what Manning had.

Ben is tough, because at his best he's as good as anybody. But you can't count on him to be at that level consistently, so i'd put him behind Marino/Elway. his "lows" are considerably worse than their lows

Well if we take all that into consideration it does get a bit funky. We can't ignore ...weapons. Some have Bradshaw in the top 10 simply because of SB wins, the guy played on a great great team (nine future HOFers, not unlike Bart Starr)

Big Ben has won SB's, his stats are as impressive as most, he extends plays like noboy else other than Tarkenton.

Yep, until Davis showed up Elways was just another good QB. Marino did have Duper and Clayton but no stud back.

How's bout

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
John Elway
Dan Marino
Steve Young
Brett Favre
Big Ben
Johnny Unitas
Otto Graham
Troy Aikman
Warren Moon
Fran Tarkenton
Jim Kelly
Roger Staubach
Sonny Jurgenson
Terry Bradshaw
Kurt Warner

[AlexJones]

Well if we take all that into consideration it does get a bit funky. We can't ignore ...weapons. Some have Bradshaw in the top 10 simply because of SB wins, the guy played on a great great team (nine future HOFers, not unlike Bart Starr)

Big Ben has won SB's, his stats are as impressive as most, he extends plays like noboy else other than Tarkenton.

Yep, until Davis showed up Elways was just another good QB. Marino did have Duper and Clayton but no stud back.

How's bout

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
John Elway
Dan Marino
Steve Young
Brett Favre
Big Ben
Johnny Unitas
Otto Graham
Troy Aikman
Warren Moon
Fran Tarkenton
Jim Kelly
Roger Staubach
Sonny Jurgenson
Terry Bradshaw
Kurt Warner

Any thoughts on pro wrassler Nick Bockwinkel, Avante? Just watched some old AWA clips of this guy and he's a ing monster on the mic.

[benefactor]

Not at all, hey little guy I was a sprinter/running back/kick returner/cornerback with far more speed than Peyton Hillis. And I'm still faster than he is. I was a 4.5 40 guy .......on grass.

Ever wonder why I know so much about sprinting? I was a sprinter, a 9.9 yards guy.

...it's pretty amazing how for you take your fake life. Do you really need attention that bad? You know you can get a dog or something. They will love you no matter how fat you are.

[Avante]

Any thoughts on pro wrassler Nick Bockwinkel, Avante? Just watched some old AWA clips of this guy and he's a ing monster on the mic.

Bockwinkel was a second generation rassler, his dad Warren was a mid card talent in the LA area way back when.

Nick was one of the most articulate/intelligent rasslers ever, kinda of surprising he was even in the biz, it's real obvious he could have been a success at other things. Other than Verne Gagne he was the most successful of the AWA guys. A multi time AWA world champion.

Would be in the All Time top 20 pre Hulk Hogan era.

[Avante]

...it's pretty amazing how for you take your fake life. Do you really need attention that bad? You know you can get a dog or something. They will love you no matter how fat you are.

I talk about...

football
blues
track
bobybuilding

...right?

Didn't I post pictures of my Fortress of Solitude and there we saw...

football trophies
weights
tons of CD's/books on them....blues. football, track, sci fi.
pin ups of sprinters
pictures of old blues cats

well?

I played football and ran track all thru school, got into the weights at 15. And never stopped lifting.

I own...

Track & Field mags since 1970
Tons of books on....blues, Islam, the black world, sci fi, football
around 20,000 football cards. Jim Brown rookie my prize.
I have a league MVP football trophy from 1978....flag football league.
Two bench presses and a ton of weights
All the REH Conans
All the ERB John Carter on Mars saga


Will you risk permanate bannishment over I don't? I can produce all of that if it meant getting rid of you. I did it once before, where were you?

I'm the real deal slick, that guy who grew up loving sports and music, so I took the time to learn all I could about my interests. And it should be obvious.

Little man how many people do you know who can talk about...

Charles Scales......Jim Browns back up
Roger Sayers....Gales older brother who was far faster than he was, actually beat the great Bob Hayes...twice.
Roy Shires....who teamed up with the blond bomber Ray Stevens early on as ...The Shire Brothers
Allan Woodring....who won the 1920 Olympic 200m .....as an alternate!

Yep...zero!

Wanna talk about old Houston Oiler running back Sid Blanks out of Texas A&I? Now tell me amigo who was the greatest NFLer out of Texas A&I? Who was Bill Groman?

[benefactor]

trying to make a deal with me about producing evidence

I still have my bench press video tbh...you know...the one you backed out on making? I've said it to you many times...I don't give a about your pictures you bought of other people, magazines you bought or trophies(I can buy one right now at the local trophy store). You make the video like we agreed and I will believe everything else. And spare me the "but you won't believe it's me" deflection. Proving it's you is as easy as a hand gesture.

[Avante]

trying to make a deal with me about producing evidence

I still have my bench press video tbh...you know...the one you backed out on making? I've said it to you many times...I don't give a about your pictures you bought of other people, magazines you bought or trophies(I can buy one right now at the local trophy store). You make the video like we agreed and I will believe everything else. And spare me the "but you won't believe it's me" deflection. Proving it's you is as easy as a hand gesture.

Dude, I like everyone else don't give a about you, ok? Look at how ya act....wow! Are you really so far gone you actually think anyone is buying trophies....hahahaha!!!!!!!!! So I went out and bought....

20,000 football cards
100's of wrestling mags
100's of track mags....you can only get with a subscription.
thousands of books
thousands of CD's/tapes
weights

..because of the internet, hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

Are you really this stupid?

So how come I can talk about the things I do like old footballers, bodybuilders, tracksters, blues cats, rockers, authors like nobody you've ever seen? How would anyone know about Charley Tolar? You have no clue...right? First Oiler to gain a 1000 yards in a season. How do I know all this?

So I display football trophies I bought....HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a football card of Tolar, is that a lie? How would anyone even know he existed unless they saw him play?

Gamble permanent bannishment and I will show you all of that stuff. I own a first edition H.P.Lovecraft, is that a lie, wanna see it? I own 20 books on the middle east/Islam, wanna see them? How about those 1928 Dock Boggs recordings?

Watch as the freak totally tap dances around that.

[benefactor]

Any fat guy anywhere could know all of that or own all of that. Just like you are a fat guy who does.

I'm not the one who is making the claims...you are...and if all of that is true then you have done quite a bit more than me from an athletic achievement standpoint. That said, this "little guy" has challenged you to a very simple challenge by your standards and big, accomplished, athletic you can't complete it. I wonder why that is? Oh yeah...it's because you are liar and a fatty and probably a step away from a major cardiac event.

[Avante]

Any fat guy anywhere could know all of that or own all of that. Just like you are a fat guy who does.

I'm not the one who is making the claims...you are...and if all of that is true then you have done quite a bit more than me from an athletic achievement standpoint. That said, this "little guy" has challenged you to a very simple challenge by your standards and big, accomplished, athletic you can't complete it. I wonder why that is? Oh yeah...it's because you are liar and a fatty and probably a step away from a major cardiac event.

You do know I post on track and music forums right? Was posting there before I came here, actually moderated the famous SUB10 sprint board.

Why do you keep ignoring my den? So I have all those books on blues/track/football/bodybulding because...? I have all those football trophies....because? I have all those pin ups of sprinters and blues cats...because? Dude, I proved all that exists I showed pictures right here...ok? Why do you keep ignoring that? I have a bench and all those weights ....why? I showed pictures of all that stuff.

Give it up little guy, you have gone from looking stupid to looking re ed. You really think anyone goes out and buys, trophies...hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

I own these rookie cards...

Montana
Rice
Emmitt
Barry
Jim Brown
Elway
Marino
Allen
Campbell
Riggins
Franco
erson
Favre

...so I went out and spent over a 1000 bucks, to fake it....hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a dumb little , wow!

I just happened to come across old track mags from the early 70's, you can only get with a subcriptio, hahahahahaha!!!!!!! I just happened to find all those REH Conans in one place....hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

When I was a kid the fastest cat around here (central Cali) was Sam Davis out of Edison HS in Fresno. He'd end up at "speed city" San Jose State running on those great Spartan teams. Go ahead Google Sam Davis. Now remember I was in HS from 64-68.

Google..."Squirmin' " Sherman Lewis.....I know 'who?" First televised NFL game I remember seeing was Giants vs Bears, that was my first look at a fast, elusive black running back......Willie Galimore....go ahead Google it. Who just knows about Wilie Galimore, yep......nobody!

Then there was a white cat who could run, here ya go shorty your intro to....



C.R.Roberts would end up on the Niners, now how do I know that? Wanna talk "Choo Choo" Winters at Nebraska? How's about Prentice Gautt at Oklahoma/Cards? Oh yes, what fat can't talk.....Eric "The Flea" Allen? Remember New Mexico's "Preacher" Pilot...?

Ya know when ya watch MNF and hear....there goes Homer Jones...in the intro? Would ya believe he was a world class sprinter at Texas Southern (beat Bob Hayes in an NAIA 200M) and the daddy of the..... e. What fat doesn't know that, hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell me slick, what did KC Cheif Curtis McClinton do that was a first?

Obviously I like it when little s like numb nuts above challenges me on this stuff, love to show off.

[johnsmith]

Yep, until Davis showed up Elways was just another good QB.

You serious here?

[spurraider21]

oh a broncos fan thinks elway is being slighted

[johnsmith]

oh a broncos fan thinks elway is being slighted

Or a Broncos fan thinking that Elway was an all time great regardless if TD ever showed up or not.

[johnsmith]

Sorry spurraider, next time I have an opinion on the NFL I will ask you if its ok or not.

[Avante]

You serious here?

I'll back off that a bit, but it's obvious the team got better with a great running back. Something Elway hadn't had.

Obviously a great back means third and 2 instead of third and 8. Which changes everything, now you are sustaining drives giving your D a much needed rest.

[spurraider21]

Or a Broncos fan thinking that Elway was an all time great regardless if TD ever showed up or not.

if QB's get bonus points for superbowls i think its fair to look at the cir stances for them. a lot of people think Elway > Marino simply based on the SB's

[johnsmith]

if QB's get bonus points for superbowls i think its fair to look at the cir stances for them

I don't really care about the argument you guys were having...it's a standalone comment regarding Elways talent. Read it again.

[johnsmith]

I'll back off that a bit, but it's obvious the team got better with a great running back. Something Elway hadn't had.

Obviously a great back means third and 2 instead of third and 8. Which changes everything, now you are sustaining drives giving your D a much needed rest.

Sure, absolutely. But you being a California guy and watching in the 80's know how good Elway was regardless if there was a run game.