Cavs: Is Lebron Past His Prime, tbh?

[Calispursfan11]

Nah, I don't think we can claim he's in decline and out of his prime after only four games. If it was 40 games. . .yeah. But it's 4.

Let's see where he is in December before proclaiming this kind of thing. He has to get used to his new team and system, not to mention get over the awkwardness of going back to Cleveland and dealing with the fact he got "dethroned" in embarrassing blowout fashion with a much more experienced team last year.

Small sample size true. As others have suggested it could be the weight or HGH issue but I think there's more to it. It definitely seems physical which should concern his fans and new team somewhat. He's simply not what we're used to seeing right now and might never return to old form.

[UZER]

He never had a killer crossover or anything, he just plowed people over with his athleticism. I saw a clip of him earlier where he couldn't take Trevor Booker off the dribble

And then you have this https://t.co/TDKwTOIMkN

"LeBron wanted a goaltend" after he made a career off those same plays.



I said many many years ago, about lebrons 2-3 yr, his jumpshot would keep him from becoming THE greatest ever. Hear me out...

It's the reason he "mentally" struggled in so many games over his career. It's just not reliable and caused him to hesitate so much in big moments, or pass the ball to scrubs.

He jumps too much when he shoots it with bad form (elbow to wide). Great jump shooters in the nba always have good form, and the rare greats shooters that didn't have good form never got more than 2-3 inches of the ground, so there were less variables on every shot.

He is always fading left, fading right, fading back, etc. He seems more comfortable shooting like this. He is so strong he can, and a lot of times he gets hot and hits, but it has never been consistent.His freakish athleticism and size has always let him blow by people from middle school to the nba, so he has never really needed a better jumper. He almost looks uncomfortable shooting when he's wide open.

Still one of the greatest ever, but damn if he had a good shooting coach early in his career, his already high ceiling wouldve been that much higher

[Killakobe81]

- Too early to say, small sample size

- He's playing in a much different system, it took years to build perfection in Miami

- It's concerning that he lost weight and wants to play on the perimeter more, since he no longer has the explosiveness to rely entirely on the outside game..he transitioned into an inside-outside game with the Heat, which negated any loss of athleticism/explosiveness..if he's going to attempt to base his entire game from the attack from outside, it's not going to work, he doesn't have the speed/athleticism anymore..

- People don't realize how much he carried the Heat for 4 years..He played both the Jordan and Pippen role for them, it's possible that it has taken a toll on his body..

all valid. he can still be the best player by a mile and still be past his peak. You could say the same of MJ during the 2nd 3peat. If you stick to the original question, the answer is yes. He is not at his "peak". But he is so far above everyone else right now he could lose a few steps and still be better than the next player ..with Durant hurt is that Blake or Advais? ... Lebron still s on both. But i love Anthony davis.

My boy was just giving me props for the call early on Adavis as a true superstar. I said it before the draft last year as college season was rolling the supposed stacked draft ... that not one of those guys wiggins, Parker Randle will be anything close to as good as Davis. Injury was my only concern but it looks like he has got stronger.

[DMC]

would the spurs have won the series if not for ray allen's shot?

Or Manu hit the FT
Or Kawhi hit the FT
Or one of any missed FT during the game wasn't missed for SA
Or a turnover didn't happen
Or 8 more didn't happen for Manu

or or or...

[BillMc]

LeBron is also struggling because he's trying to play in a system that promotes ball movement..the bad thing is the team has ball stoppers that either look for their own shot or do not know how to play without the ball..

Well said.

[D-Wade]

Bron's fine. And Cavs fans should be thankful he's getting his 2011 Finals mode out early in the season, as opposed to when it matters.

Adjustments will be made, Bron will have the ball in his hands more and the others will fall in line. The question is whether Irving and Waiters will fall in line like Wade did. (Wade's obviously not like those guys, but I'm still not convinced he cedes the team to Bron if his health doesn't go south).

[Killakobe81]

I apologize I meant past peak (of his prime) not past his prime ...which he is still in.

[313]

[313]

https://vine.co/v/OeM2LObWuX2

[The Gemini Method]

It doesn't help that LeBron had what? 4 assists while the rest of the team had 2? You have Kyrie chucking it and Dion Waiters thinking he's the next Jordan. It's way to early but he has also been in the league for 11 years. Been through many lengthy playoff runs and had to deal with cucks like the majority of posters yapping about that probably have next to nil to do with anything. It's been 4 games--lets see how they are in a couple months.

[ambchang]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...aliers-offense

Hilarious article by ESPN, trying to deflect blame from Lebron, while putting it on Irving (which is sorta true).

[BatManu20]

Lebron's body language says it all the past couple games. He's frustrated as playing with these young guys. But the Cavs will be fine in the long run tbh.

[Mr Bones]

The Heat in their first season with the Big 3 started off 8-7 and every casual (i.e., unknowledgeable) basketball fan said they were no good, had no chemistry, etc., etc. I expect pretty much the same thing to happen here at spurstalk over the next few months.

[Thebesteva]

westsidebob10-Day Contract

Joined:Feb 21, 2008Messages:388Likes Received:442

Zen said: ↑

Part of the process.

the heat looked just as bad in their first 20 games together and ended up making the finals.

Bull .

The Heat started out 4-1, after 20 games were 12-8. Their biggest loss at that point was 16 points, they had 2 double digit losses (games 14 and 18).

They won by an average of 18.3 points a game, the lost by an average of 5.8.

In their first five games, they won by 10, 26, 23, and 32. They showed evidence of being able to dominate.

Outside of the first quarter against the Knicks, what has this team shown?

[Infinite_limit]

[Killakobe81]

westsidebob10-Day Contract

Joined:Feb 21, 2008Messages:388Likes Received:442

Zen said: ↑

Part of the process.

the heat looked just as bad in their first 20 games together and ended up making the finals.

Bull .

The Heat started out 4-1, after 20 games were 12-8. Their biggest loss at that point was 16 points, they had 2 double digit losses (games 14 and 18).

They won by an average of 18.3 points a game, the lost by an average of 5.8.

In their first five games, they won by 10, 26, 23, and 32. They showed evidence of being able to dominate.

Outside of the first quarter against the Knicks, what has this team shown?

Still early and I actually like Love and Kyrie but they are not as good as Bosh/Wade when the Healtles were formed. Plus Lebron is still in his prime but he probably wont be as good either.

[Infinite_limit]

Still early and I actually like Love and Kyrie but they are not as good as Bosh/Wade when the Healtles were formed. Plus Lebron is still in his prime but he probably wont be as good either.

Love & Bosh isn't far off. Bosh played roughly 500 games at Toronto & Love 350 with Timberwolves

Irving to Wade is a gigantic leap in experience. Even in College Wade ran the show while Irving was 2nd fiddle to Senior Nolan Smith.

[DMC]

Blatt is going to have to play move it or lose it. He's going to have to drop balls, risk his job right away. He needs to issue an edict, 5 passes before a shot, win or lose. Get the team accustomed to looking for the better shot. It looks like early (see Spurs last night vs Houston) but once it's perfected, it's a thing of beauty (see Spurs vs Heat in Finals). I cannot fathom a PG having that many points but no assists. I cannot fathom a team having only 6 assists, with your non-PG star having 4 of those. I'd be having a 25 legged race around the court as my foot would be up the team's ass.

[The Gemini Method]

Probably going to have to kidnap Steve Kerr from the Warriors. That seems like what this team needs a coach that pushes passing efficiency and whatnot.

[Killakobe81]

Blatt is going to have to play move it or lose it. He's going to have to drop balls, risk his job right away. He needs to issue an edict, 5 passes before a shot, win or lose. Get the team accustomed to looking for the better shot. It looks like early (see Spurs last night vs Houston) but once it's perfected, it's a thing of beauty (see Spurs vs Heat in Finals). I cannot fathom a PG having that many points but no assists. I cannot fathom a team having only 6 assists, with your non-PG star having 4 of those. I'd be having a 25 legged race around the court as my foot would be up the team's ass.

everyone worries about shots but teams including Phil's bulls were succcessful with MJ taking a whole heap of shots. Yes the Spurs way is better ....but if any of yall played hoops when one player is far superior than others a smart coach and team finds that player and gets him the rock in their sweet spot. Maybe because I was more like Ariza or Kiwi I never griped about shots ...as long as we win. IF we lose then I just wanted to find a way to win. if it was getting our best player (a shoot first PG) the ball that was fine with me.

[Killakobe81]

everyone worries about shots but teams including Phil's bulls were succcessful with MJ taking a whole heap of shots. Yes the Spurs way is better ....but if any of yall played hoops when one player is far superior than others a smart coach and team finds that player and gets him the rock in their sweet spot. Maybe because I was more like Ariza or Kiwi I never griped about shots ...as long as we win. IF we lose then I just wanted to find a way to win. if it was getting our best player (a shoot first PG) the ball that was fine with me.

The Key is player movement first ball movement second. if player movement gets my player great shots and he is hot then he needs to keep scoring. Once the defense adjusts then you move the ball ... your best player scoring is not an issue. your best player should score but when they continue to keep shooting when double or triple teamed (bad Kobe) that is the issue.

[DMC]

everyone worries about shots but teams including Phil's bulls were succcessful with MJ taking a whole heap of shots. Yes the Spurs way is better ....but if any of yall played hoops when one player is far superior than others a smart coach and team finds that player and gets him the rock in their sweet spot. Maybe because I was more like Ariza or Kiwi I never griped about shots ...as long as we win. IF we lose then I just wanted to find a way to win. if it was getting our best player (a shoot first PG) the ball that was fine with me.

That's hardly NBA level ball.

In the NBA you have 4 teammates on the floor. I can understand however why you feel that way, it's the LG concept where Kobe is the best player on the floor so he should shoot the ball every chance he gets, and they think he's double teamed to force him to pass when in reality coaches and players know he'll shoot even if doubled so why guard his teammates? Spin that how you like, crippled glory hound being the focal point of the offense is ty ball. We're seeing the rotten fruits of that now.

[BillMc]

Of course he's past his prime, he plays with Uncle Drew and Wes and he's 4 or 5 years older than them.

[Killakobe81]

That's hardly NBA level ball.

In the NBA you have 4 teammates on the floor. I can understand however why you feel that way, it's the LG concept where Kobe is the best player on the floor so he should shoot the ball every chance he gets, and they think he's double teamed to force him to pass when in reality coaches and players know he'll shoot even if doubled so why guard his teammates? Spin that how you like, crippled glory hound being the focal point of the offense is ty ball. We're seeing the rotten fruits of that now.

Wasnt talking about Kobe and in fact, I said that him shooting over double and triple teams is bad. my point was that in any good offense you create shots for your best players. To use the spurs guys like Ayers, Bonner are utilized to get shots for Parker,manu Tim etc. It doesnt mean that those role guys shouldnt shoot. but the majority of the shots should come form your best scorers. Almost every Spur player can score but Still they focus the offense around the big 3. So it's stupid to say that isnt NBA level when that has been the norm for the 30 plus years I have been watching. Of course ball and player movement are essential (said that in the post you quoted) but again if a player is hot and you have an advantage you milk it. When tim was in his prime and had a weak power forward Spurs fed Tim forced the double team then got guys open shots like Bowen. Bowen improved his shooting, but you guys never ran plays for Bowen he got his shots off the open looks Duncan created that is good offense at any level in any era.