Russian troops, tanks, and artillery have crossed into Ukraine - NATO Commander

[pgardn]

Russia has already won the ideological battle and is withstanding Americas sanctions..other countries will soon lose patience with keeping the pressure on Russia to benefit america. At this point russia cannot be beaten militarily or economically after the China deal. Sure america can hurt Russia but it'll be its own undoing while russia will survive and bounce back. The american empire is on its death bed. We are rotting culturally and physically with out infrastructure. Americas future is as a brown 2nd world socialist republic.

The Battle Hardened American Nazi has declared that Russia has won the ideological battle...
Wow...

And this guy knows stuff; the holocaust never happened. Ya see the Nazis were short on gold so they collected Jewish teeth from German dentists... along with hair and shoes. A small recycling effort it was.

Oh, and he beats up black guys when he is out with friends having manly brew conversations concerning the black stain.

[m>s]

T-55 - Korean war era relic, useless
T-62 - Vietnam war era relic, useless
T-64 - Ukrainian made, all in storage. They were being shipped en masse in early stages of conflict, but now they switched almost exclusively to T-72s. They either ran out of usable tanks or crews.
T-72 - Their bread&butter. If not latest modernization they're useless at night.
T-80 - Gas turbine powered, huge fuel consumption. Also useless at night.
T-90 - Basically a modernization of T-72. Solid tank, but due to several deficiencies they gave up and are going for clean sheet design.

All Russian tanks from T-64 on have auto loader of similar design. Rounds are stored in floor and on carousel all around the turret. No blast or blow out doors anywhere. If hit in right place it makes for interesting and probably last experience.

In tank battles quan y beats quality every time

[m>s]

Read this and then report back to me if you have any questions thanks

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/11/g...efense-system/

[RandomGuy]

It's funny watching a bunch of military know nothings talk about things they neither know nor understand


http://english.pravda.ru/russia/poli...ar_surprise-0/

(shrugs) I would be willing to bet that know more about current military affairs, history, strategy, tactics, logistics, and geopolitics than you do.

I was an intelligence analyst in the US army in the waning days of the cold war, and still retain some classified information on Russian and US military capabilities and operations that is unavailable to you, and given the overall implosion of the Russian military industrial complex, still quite relevant.

LOL pravda.

Sucker.

[RandomGuy]

T-55 - Korean war era relic, useless
T-62 - Vietnam war era relic, useless
T-64 - Ukrainian made, all in storage. They were being shipped en masse in early stages of conflict, but now they switched almost exclusively to T-72s. They either ran out of usable tanks or crews.
T-72 - Their bread&butter. If not latest modernization they're useless at night.
T-80 - Gas turbine powered, huge fuel consumption. Also useless at night.
T-90 - Basically a modernization of T-72. Solid tank, but due to several deficiencies they gave up and are going for clean sheet design.

All Russian tanks from T-64 on have auto loader of similar design. Rounds are stored in floor and on carousel all around the turret. No blast or blow out doors anywhere. If hit in right place it makes for interesting and probably last experience.

One of the more important things you forgot was the ability to fire while moving. The T-90 only recently gained that ability.

[Cry Havoc]

In tank battles quan y beats quality every time

You can't make up this kind of stupidity.

[Cry Havoc]

One of the more important things you forgot was the ability to fire while moving. The T-90 only recently gained that ability.

Germany's new Leopard or our Abrams would just laugh at anything short of the T-90.

[m>s]

You can't make up this kind of stupidity.

See: ww2 if you need a case study lil

[Cry Havoc]

See: ww2 if you need a case study lil

Yes, because a conflict that's 70 years old between nations of relatively equal technology would definitely set a precedent for a modern conflict.

Mad.

Desperate.

[m>s]

Tech was so uneven in the beginning it's not even funny. Soviets just had an endless supply and Zerg rushed the out of us.

[DarrinS]

Why waste time arguing with crazy people?

[Cry Havoc]

Tech was so uneven in the beginning it's not even funny. Soviets just had an endless supply and Zerg rushed the out of us.

Except the Russians don't have an endless supply now, especially with their economy in tatters. The strength of their ground forces absolutely pales in comparison to the US. This isn't even really news, or debatable. Russia cannot possibly sustain a war for any length of time given their economic conditions.

[Cry Havoc]

Why waste time arguing with crazy people?

Probably why I stopped arguing with you tbh

[RandomGuy]

Germany's new Leopard or our Abrams would just laugh at anything short of the T-90.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Medina_Ridge

I would point out that China's new MBT get closer than the updated T-90

[RandomGuy]

Tech was so uneven in the beginning it's not even funny. Soviets just had an endless supply and Zerg rushed the out of us.

Not quite. The T-34 was technically superior to most german tanks when it was introduced.

Shocked the out of the german leadership, whose race-based ideas of who could do what blinded them to the fact that their enemies weren't as stupid as they thought they were.

German tactical superiority carried long enough for their R & D to catch up with the Russians.

But then, I'm sure you knew all that and were deliberately over-simplifying what happened.

[DarrinS]

Probably why I stopped arguing with you tbh

gfy

[RandomGuy]

Except the Russians don't have an endless supply now, especially with their economy in tatters. The strength of their ground forces absolutely pales in comparison to the US. This isn't even really news, or debatable. Russia cannot possibly sustain a war for any length of time given their economic conditions.

There is also the small factor that many of their arms factories were... .Ukranian.

Don't see the Ukies selling arms anymore to the Ruskies, ever. They terminated that relationship this year.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europ...-hurt-Kiev-too

According to the official ITAR-Tass agency, 79 Ukrainian and 859 Russian defense firms will be adversely affected. These industries have been intertwined since Soviet times, when Ukraine accounted for about 30 percent of Soviet military shipbuilding and disproportionately high shares in aviation, missiles, armor, and space industries.

For Moscow, the collapse in relations spells an expensive and technically difficult detour from President Vladimir Putin's ambitious 10-year, $800 billion rearmament program. Many parts of that plan must now be put off as Russian industries struggle to find subs utions for the high quality, custom-made parts they formerly received from Ukraine.

Declining oil prices and the falling ruble, among other things, will severely hamper the Russian's upgrading of their military capabilities going forward.

Ukraine, however, will be propping up their own arms industry as they build up to counter the Russian threat. As noted before the balance of power is not going to stay decisively in Russia's favor for long.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraines-main-...-business.html

[Cry Havoc]

gfy

[Cry Havoc]

There is also the small factor that many of their arms factories were... .Ukranian.

Don't see the Ukies selling arms anymore to the Ruskies, ever. They terminated that relationship this year.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europ...-hurt-Kiev-too






Declining oil prices and the falling ruble, among other things, will severely hamper the Russian's upgrading of their military capabilities going forward.

Ukraine, however, will be propping up their own arms industry as they build up to counter the Russian threat. As noted before the balance of power is not going to stay decisively in Russia's favor for long.

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraines-main-...-business.html

It's amazing that for all his -waving, Putin shot himself and his country squarely in the foot. Every decision and bluster he's made over the past ~18 months has been to a detriment of long term relations. Honestly, he's an outright threat to the economic stability of Russia at this point. He never struck me as quite this politically tone deaf in the past, so either things got really desperate in Russia (likely), or there are powers behind the throne forcing his hand (perhaps even more likely).

If Russian currency continues to plummet (down to .021 per $ now), things are going to get really interesting. In a bad way. I admit to harboring a sort of morbid fascination with watching a country that had done so much to improve world relations and set itself on the stage as a burgeoning power with a genuine concern for the global good suddenly (hopefully not literally) nuke itself into ostracism. Not even China (China!) is this inept, arrogant, or self-destructive when it comes to their own reputation.

[RandomGuy]

In tank battles quan y beats quality every time

Again, an amateurish over-simplification.

Quan y does not trump everything all the time, especially when one considers how units might be deployed. All the superior numbers in the world will not help a poorly deployed unit versus a well-trained agile one that leverages its advantages against its opponents weaknesses.

The best one can really say, is that quan y can make up for an opponents tactical or technological superiority to a certain point.

[m>s]

Not quite. The T-34 was technically superior to most german tanks when it was introduced.

Shocked the out of the german leadership, whose race-based ideas of who could do what blinded them to the fact that their enemies weren't as stupid as they thought they were.

German tactical superiority carried long enough for their R & D to catch up with the Russians.

But then, I'm sure you knew all that and were deliberately over-simplifying what happened.

In Barbarossa yes but germans had tigers by 42. Like I said they produced so many t34s that the tigers superiority didn't reaer matter. Quan y beats quality in tank battles.

[RandomGuy]

It's amazing that for all his -waving, Putin shot himself and his country squarely in the foot. Every decision and bluster he's made over the past ~18 months has been to a detriment of long term relations. Honestly, he's an outright threat to the economic stability of Russia at this point. He never struck me as quite this politically tone deaf in the past, so either things got really desperate in Russia (likely), or there are powers behind the throne forcing his hand (perhaps even more likely).

If Russian currency continues to plummet (down to .021 per $ now), things are going to get really interesting. In a bad way. I admit to harboring a sort of morbid fascination with watching a country that had done so much to improve world relations and set itself on the stage as a burgeoning power with a genuine concern for the global good suddenly (hopefully not literally) nuke itself into ostracism. Not even China (China!) is this inept, arrogant, or self-destructive when it comes to their own reputation.

Putin is enormously popular at home for many of the same reasons that made Hitler popular.

He can lie very effectively to his own populace using a propaganda arm second to none.
He is making the average citizen feel good about their country again after suffering a fairly humiliating defeat and embarrassment.

Russians got used to being a peer with the US, and the loss of that status cut their pride a lot.

Putin also sees things in a much more basic level, but appears to be suffering from the same malaise that afflicts all autocrats: yes-man-itis.

I don't see many around him offering any negative feedback to his decisions.

The ruble's fall doesn't mean as much overall as the decline in the price of oil to Russia. Remember oil is traded in dollars, and Russia exports a lot of it. Both combined will be a huge double whammy. Inflation and economic contraction at the same time the govt burns through its currency reserves. Yikes. They are already having trouble paying their pensioners.

[xeromass]

Poland is with little help of its friends developing a PL-01 tank:



It's based on CV90 chassis so not exactly MBT, but could be armed with 120mm gun. The one driving around is just a mock-up.

It's main party trick is thermal camouflage. They plan to cover the whole tank in peltier elements.



If they pull this off it would revolutionize tank warfare, especially in low visibility conditions.

[m>s]

Poland stronk! Rhat tank design is interesting, my biggest question is if it's cost effective

[Cry Havoc]

The ruble's fall doesn't mean as much overall as the decline in the price of oil to Russia. Remember oil is traded in dollars, and Russia exports a lot of it. Both combined will be a huge double whammy. Inflation and economic contraction at the same time the govt burns through its currency reserves. Yikes. They are already having trouble paying their pensioners.

Well, the point I was making is that the ruble's fall is a pretty big sign that all is not well at home. They could argue off the oil prices as market fluctuations, but it's hard for them to demonstrate that they aren't concerned about their economy when their currency starts to tank so badly that they're at risk of hyperinflation.