Currently, is there a better perimeter defender than kawhi leonard?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Josh Smith.

[024]

Eh, I think Spurstalk tend to overrate Leonard and Green's defense. They both are very good defenders in the right situation but still have their flaws. None of them comes close to Bowen's "never give an inch, fight through every screen, contest every shot with a hand directly in their face" defense. They might be able to do it against certain players in certain stretches but only Bowen can guard explosive point guards, Lebron and everyone in between. I haven't watched Tony Allen play this season but I would say Tony Allen is a better defender than either Leonard or Green and has that Bowen quality with added flopping.

And no one on the Spurs can guard Westbrook. I don't know where that came from. Westbrook blew past every defender and got basically any shot he wanted in the playoffs, especially down the stretch. Spurs are just fortunate Westbrook is not as talented as Durant so many of those open pull up long jumpers didn't go in.

[100%duncan]

How can you conclude that Allen is better than both if yo had not watched him recently?

[Malik Hairston]

Well, they're unquestionably the best duo by any metric you use, tbh..

The Spurs' defense has ranked in the top 2-3 in both regular season and playoffs of 2012/2013 and 2013/2014, along with the playoffs in both years, and so far in the short sample size of the 2014-15 regular season(essentially since Green and Leonard became full-time starters)..

They have also completely eliminated virtually every notable wing player in a playoff series since 2012/2013 outside of 2014 Lebron(which is skewed, since you could argue a lot of it was stat-padding), maybe 2014 Westbrook(he was inefficient, but had his moments) and maybe Monta Ellis(great moments, but extremely inefficient, and Pop didn't put Green on him until late, opting for more shooting from Belinelli, which he quickly altered in the next round)..

Ranking defensive ability by just a couple of metrics is flawed and extremely difficult, you need to view the entire picture, but just using a few metrics for comparisons's sake:

Def xRAPM 2014(among players that played significant minutes against rotation players):

Iguodala- 4.6
D. Green- 2.2
Allen- 2.2
Shumpert- 1.5
Ariza- 0.9
Leonard- 1
Batum- -1
George- 1.7
Lebron - -0.8

Opponent's PER from 82games.com:
Iguodala- 11.7
Green- 10
Allen- 16.6
Shumpert- 16.6
Ariza- 15.6
Leonard- 14.7
Batum- 13.2
George- 14.1
Lebron- 14

These metrics are flawed, especially the latter, since it doesn't consider cross-matchups, and there's the obvious factor of teammates/paint anchors, too..you could also apply Synergy numbers, but those are flawed, as well..they do help paint an image of defensive impact, though..

[Cry Havoc]

Last game 3-11 27.2%


Sure..."plenty of better defenders" but mention only two guys who, by the way, aren't better?

testies might be the worst poster in the entire upstairs and that's saying a LOT.

[Mikeanaro]

[Mikeanaro]

Eh, I think Spurstalk tend to overrate Leonard and Green's defense. They both are very good defenders in the right situation but still have their flaws. None of them comes close to Bowen's "never give an inch, fight through every screen, contest every shot with a hand directly in their face" defense. They might be able to do it against certain players in certain stretches but only Bowen can guard explosive point guards, Lebron and everyone in between. I haven't watched Tony Allen play this season but I would say Tony Allen is a better defender than either Leonard or Green and has that Bowen quality with added flopping.

And no one on the Spurs can guard Westbrook. I don't know where that came from. Westbrook blew past every defender and got basically any shot he wanted in the playoffs, especially down the stretch. Spurs are just fortunate Westbrook is not as talented as Durant so many of those open pull up long jumpers didn't go in.

Please, nobody can guard Westbrook because refs want to keep it like that, that chimp doesnt have a 10 foot vertical leap, he doesnt run like 3000 mph or any fantastic people loves to say about chimp.
He is a just a clown that goes free to the rim looking for cheap calls.

[dabom]

Please, nobody can guard Westbrook because refs want to keep it like that, that chimp doesnt have a 10 foot vertical leap, he doesnt run like 3000 mph or any fantastic people loves to say about chimp.
He is a just a clown that goes free to the rim looking for cheap calls.

[dabom]

But seriously, DG did guard steph great, but KL did a better job of guarding Klay. Kawhi pretty much guards everyone else including point guards.
Green can't defend the bigger 3s like lebron or blockout some legit 4s like Kawhi. Kawhi even out rebounds some 4s and 5s.
That's defense the last time I heard. Anyone seriously debating green as a better perimeter defender than Kawhi is a ing ..

[SpurSwag]

No there isn't. I didn't think he was the best until that steal against CP3, that was just such a ridiculous play for him to make. The best point guard in the game handling beyond the 3 point line on a make or break position, and he couldn't even start the play because Kawhi just took it from him. Pretty amazing.

[SpurSwag]

I think spurstalk tends to overrate DG a little defensively, and as many have said he's either pretty amazing or essentially average. With that being said, he played some of the best defense I've seen against DWade in the finals. Sure, some of that was Dwade falling off, but Danny really locked him up completely

[elemento]

Not, but there're some good young defenders in the league as well, especially Butler. Boy is a pest defensively, just like Kawhi.

[313]

I think spurstalk tends to overrate DG a little defensively, and as many have said he's either pretty amazing or essentially average. With that being said, he played some of the best defense I've seen against DWade in the finals. Sure, some of that was Dwade falling off, but Danny really locked him up completely

Danny's defensive awareness on the fast break >>>

[#2!]

testies might be the worst poster in the entire upstairs and that's saying a LOT.

Challenge accepted:

Please, nobody can guard Westbrook because refs want to keep it like that, that chimp doesnt have a 10 foot vertical leap, he doesnt run like 3000 mph or any fantastic people loves to say about chimp.
He is a just a clown that goes free to the rim looking for cheap calls.

[Mikeanaro]

Im a

[Cry Havoc]

I think spurstalk tends to overrate DG a little defensively, and as many have said he's either pretty amazing or essentially average. With that being said, he played some of the best defense I've seen against DWade in the finals. Sure, some of that was Dwade falling off, but Danny really locked him up completely

Wade was dominant in the previous rounds. Doubtful he just happened to run out of gas in the FINALS for no reason. If he would have put up great numbers in a couple of games then yeah, you could maybe say he was tired. But he went from a monster to "is he done?" in the course of one round.

[SpurSwag]

Danny's defensive awareness on the fast break >>>

I'll give you that, he might be the best in the league defensively on breaks. It's pretty amazing to see actually.

[DMC]

KL is the best perimeter defender in the league. Danny is good too, but he's easy as to get off his feet with a pump fake.

[mkurts]

ESPN says Klay Thompson

[Chinook]

Yes. Green's been a significantly better defender this season. I know it's just a standard line from some folks that Green is overrated on ST, but that's not true at all. It's hard to understand just how much he does for a team on that end until you chart every possession.

Danny's part in the OKC series was the finest piece of defensive work I've ever seen. He didn't just hold Westbrook and Durant to lower PPPs than Kawhi. He held Jackson in check; he switched onto Ibaka. He pretty much single-handedly removed Fisher as a factor after the first half of Game One and Butler after the first half of Game Two. Say what you want about Kawhi's ability to guard 1-4, but Danny often has his assignments change several times in one series (the gap between subs/timeouts).

Also, Green is probably the only two-guard who's a legit rim-protector, meaning he weakside rotation has the defensive impact of a big man's. A madly underrated part of the Finals was how Green's rotations in the paint negated the Heat running with two shooting bigs.

In short, Green is like the defensive version of Matt Bonner: He's so good on that end that people don't even know how and just assume he's overrated.

[HI-FI]

Yes. Green's been a significantly better defender this season. I know it's just a standard line from some folks that Green is overrated on ST, but that's not true at all. It's hard to understand just how much he does for a team on that end until you chart every possession.

Danny's part in the OKC series was the finest piece of defensive work I've ever seen. He didn't just hold Westbrook and Durant to lower PPPs than Kawhi. He held Jackson in check; he switched onto Ibaka. He pretty much single-handedly removed Fisher as a factor after the first half of Game One and Butler after the first half of Game Two. Say what you want about Kawhi's ability to guard 1-4, but Danny often has his assignments change several times in one series (the gap between subs/timeouts).

Also, Green is probably the only two-guard who's a legit rim-protector, meaning he weakside rotation has the defensive impact of a big man's. A madly underrated part of the Finals was how Green's rotations in the paint negated the Heat running with two shooting bigs.

In short, Green is like the defensive version of Matt Bonner: He's so good on that end that people don't even know how and just assume he's overrated.

The Return

and i agree about both Bonner and especially Green being underrated.

[apalisoc_9]

I don't if it's a standard, i have made several threads about how danny is better in certain matchups and how super underrated he is..I share this opinion with many other ST...Not sure what xhinook is talking about. 9/10 of people believe Green is super underrated and a better 1-2 defender than kawhi.

[Chinook]

The Return

Lol. These 70-hour workweeks are a killer. Completely sapped my desire to do anything other than rest when I get home.

[apalisoc_9]

Heck I edited my players in 2k14 and Danny has a 98 overall defense, kawhi 93, Tiago 93

[Chinook]

I don't if it's a standard, i have made several threads about how danny is better in certain matchups and how super underrated he is..I share this opinion with many other ST...Not sure what xhinook is talking about. 9/10 of people believe Green is super underrated and a better 1-2 defender than kawhi.

Trying to figure out how me saying that some people think Green's defense is overrated automatically means I'm saying you think that.