Spurs @ Timberwolves Thoughts and Grades

[Mel_13]

This forum is full of folks who remind me of child abusers. They pick out one child and abuse him while ignoring the others. Why don't we look for good things and improvements in our individual players, especially the supporting troops. If they were up to the standards of the starters, they'd be starting.

When someone posts a thread like this they certainly invite commentary and criticism. Comparing posters to child abusers while calling for a more optimistic viewpoint seems a bit incongruous to me. Perhaps you should try your hand at one of these game reviews.

[apalisoc_9]

Thanks Nono

Will use this format for any game grades I do..

[jjktkk]

Thanks for the write up El.

[BillMc]

Thanks. Nice job.

[Mikeanaro]

Nice grades, finally Spurs win by a wide wide margin.

[Raven]

i'd give an A+ to DG, he was a wise beast out there. Beli looked ty as per par whenever guarding anyone, with wiggins abusing him, but looked very comfortable shooting it, which is cool. I think Daye was a solid B, very good on D with his positioning and rebounding and he took mostly good shots with a good stroke that just weren't going in, when they went he relaxed and he looked very good. In general Both Anderson and Daye look very good to me, they are not getting burned or getting screened much and to me that's very reassuring because the offense is there.

[ElNono]

My general feeling on Daye last night, at least offensively, is that he played in a rush. I think he's aware that his shot is what's going to earn him minutes, and that his time to show he belongs is limited. As such, I thought he rushed some shots, and took some quick long 2s, a shot that's fairly uncharacteristic for the Spurs' offense. In that context, at times it looked like he wanted to eat first, instead of being part of the Spurs offensive machinery.

[Raven]

i agree, when he feels like that, he tends to rush a bit and comes a little flat. However, when it was garbage time, he relaxed and knowing he was not going out, he really looked good and in general he looks like a san antonio spurs player, which is impressive considering the no D chucker he was in detroit..

[ElNono]

i agree, when he feels like that, he tends to rush a bit and comes a little flat. However, when it was garbage time, he relaxed and knowing he was not going out, he really looked good and in general he looks like a san antonio spurs player, which is impressive considering the no D chucker he was in detroit..

I agree, but if he's to take Bonner's spot, he needs to show the coaches he can do that when the game is still compe ive. I'm rooting for him to do well, he just was a little selfish at times last night, and unlike more established players, he's trying to earn a spot, so the onus to do better is bigger for him.

[100%duncan]

Daye is actually a glorified chucker that in reality, can't really shoot.

[RD2191]

No of tacocabanafajita quality but good job good effort. jk mayne, great write up. Appreciate it.

[manufan10]

I agree, but if he's to take Bonner's spot, he needs to show the coaches he can do that when the game is still compe ive. I'm rooting for him to do well, he just was a little selfish at times last night, and unlike more established players, he's trying to earn a spot, so the onus to do better is bigger for him.

What's ironic to me is that I think he also knows his shots aren't falling because there were a few time where Tony or Manu gave him a wide open shot and Daye hesitated and ended up NOT shooting it.

To me, that shows his lack of confidence right now. He's in a major slump and only seeing shots start to fall will get him out of this funk. Hopefully this game will help propel him to be a more serviceable player.

[manufan10]

BTW, thanks for doing this ElNono.

[wildbill2u]

When someone posts a thread like this they certainly invite commentary and criticism. Comparing posters to child abusers while calling for a more optimistic viewpoint seems a bit incongruous to me. Perhaps you should try your hand at one of these game reviews.

I was just pointing out that over the years a lot of folks pick on some player as a "whipping boy". It's usually somebody at the end of the bench or rotation at a position and nothing they do is acceptable. When someone new comes on the scene as a bench player, they almost always wind up with nothing but criticism because they aren't judged on their adaptation to the system or some impossible ideal of a 13th player similar to Le Bron.

In this case, I thought Daye played more than an acceptable game and certainly better than D+. TimVP used to grade on a scale based on his evaluation of the relative skill set each player brought to the table. It was subjective--and you could quarrel with his evaluation--but it was based on a zero sum baseline with his evaluation of how well each player played against that base line. That's a tough standard to make and to uphold, but he tried.

[littlecoyotecoin]

When someone posts a thread like this they certainly invite commentary and criticism. Comparing posters to child abusers while calling for a more optimistic viewpoint seems a bit incongruous to me. Perhaps you should try your hand at one of these game reviews.

WADR to my favorite two posters, I thought WildBill was on point. More optimistic is not equivalent to irrational. The Daye criticism is skewed way negative, and no one is chiding his detractors to be more congruous with their statements. I don't believe Wild needs to write game grades to make this point. And, I don't think he was being unappreciative of Nono's efforts. He was only disagreeing with part of the content, which, as you agree, is invited when writing said summaries.

I didn't see anyone calling for congruity during the game thread when some genius was complaining about Daye's rebounding. When I went to check the stat sheet at the moment I read the comment, Daye had 4 rebounds in 6 minutes of play. Duncan had 4 rebounds in 16 minutes of play.

Daye has done himself no favors with his shooting, but the piling on with little regard for the truth should be condemned before Wild is. It does remind me of an abuser, or school-yard bullies, or, as I said a long time ago, chickens that will peck another one to death if they see a weakness in it. And, Daye is not without flaws.

Daye shot 41% from three with us last year. He shot 42% during the preseason. Third highest on the team with the most attempts. He only shot poorly in the summer league, and he has had a slow start to the regular season, but every player on the team is shooting poorly from 3 except Parker and Bonner.

Kawhi is actually shooting worse, Manu only slightly better, similarly Diaw. Danny has picked it up recently and is STILL under 35%.

The same people that were saying Daye couldn't shoot last year would say that his attempts were too few to count in the little time he played last year. Now, they say this almost, if not exact same number of attempts is proof that he can't shoot. That is some uv an incongruity, right there, but no one ever mentions it except me, and then I'm labeled some sort of Daye-lover, instead of just reasonable and patient.

Props to Nono and WildBill.

[024]

Baynes definitely deserved an A. This was as good of play as we can expect from him. He almost looked like Splitter out there, contesting shots at the rim without fouling, getting his rebounds, and making his shots when he rolls to the basket.

[Mel_13]

I was just pointing out that over the years a lot of folks pick on some player as a "whipping boy". It's usually somebody at the end of the bench or rotation at a position and nothing they do is acceptable. When someone new comes on the scene as a bench player, they almost always wind up with nothing but criticism because they aren't judged on their adaptation to the system or some impossible ideal of a 13th player similar to Le Bron.

I understand and I absolutely agree. From Rasho to Beno, from Bonner to Bogans, and from Ayres to Daye it is a familiar theme. It can be seen on any team message board, perhaps more so here due to the lax moderation.

In this case, I thought Daye played more than an acceptable game and certainly better than D+. TimVP used to grade on a scale based on his evaluation of the relative skill set each player brought to the table. It was subjective--and you could quarrel with his evaluation--but it was based on a zero sum baseline with his evaluation of how well each player played against that base line. That's a tough standard to make and to uphold, but he tried.

I also understood your view on Daye and that's why I didn't quote that portion of your post or register any objection to it. You made a reasonable case in response to the evaluation in the OP.

I just felt the child abuser bit was gratuitous and unnecessary. IMO, the only effective counter to the negative posting you criticized is to post more quality content. Which you did in the first portion of your post.

[SnakeBoy]

I was just pointing out that over the years a lot of folks pick on some player as a "whipping boy". It's usually somebody at the end of the bench or rotation at a position and nothing they do is acceptable. When someone new comes on the scene as a bench player, they almost always wind up with nothing but criticism because they aren't judged on their adaptation to the system or some impossible ideal of a 13th player similar to Le Bron.

In this case, I thought Daye played more than an acceptable game and certainly better than D+. TimVP used to grade on a scale based on his evaluation of the relative skill set each player brought to the table. It was subjective--and you could quarrel with his evaluation--but it was based on a zero sum baseline with his evaluation of how well each player played against that base line. That's a tough standard to make and to uphold, but he tried.

I don't think Daye is being used as a whipping boy. I had high hopes he could be developed but it's starting to look like he's never going to make it in the NBA. If you wanted to use a scale I'd say compare KA and Daye. I'd say they have both performed about equally but one is in his 5th year in the NBA and the other is in his 5th week. On that scale, El Nono's grade for Daye is being generous.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I don't think Daye is being used as a whipping boy. I had high hopes he could be developed but it's starting to look like he's never going to make it in the NBA. If you wanted to use a scale I'd say compare KA and Daye. I'd say they have both performed about equally but one is in his 5th year in the NBA and the other is in his 5th week. On that scale, El Nono's grade for Daye is being generous.

This is the sort of thing I am talking about. Thus far, Anderson is shooting zero% (0/5) from three, yet received little criticism. Daye has been in the league shooting a respectable % for five years, you're right. Anderson might be lucky if he makes it that long. Anderson may turn out well, but he's not even in Daye's league yet. More incongruity.

Kyle shooting 11% from 2 and 9% overall in six games.

I love the idea of Kyle's potential. I am an Anderson fan, but let's keep it real. Daye shot over 30% from 3 as a rookie. 54% from two. As bad as Daye has been, Kyle can't even sniff his jock, yet. Good thing he's got time to catch up, because so far it looks like he gunna need it.

[ElNono]

I was just pointing out that over the years a lot of folks pick on some player as a "whipping boy". It's usually somebody at the end of the bench or rotation at a position and nothing they do is acceptable. When someone new comes on the scene as a bench player, they almost always wind up with nothing but criticism because they aren't judged on their adaptation to the system or some impossible ideal of a 13th player similar to Le Bron.

In this case, I thought Daye played more than an acceptable game and certainly better than D+. TimVP used to grade on a scale based on his evaluation of the relative skill set each player brought to the table. It was subjective--and you could quarrel with his evaluation--but it was based on a zero sum baseline with his evaluation of how well each player played against that base line. That's a tough standard to make and to uphold, but he tried.

Outside of Bonner in the past and Ayres lately, I don't really have a "whipping boy" anymore. Heck, I started the Temple of Austin Daye thread. I want him to work out for the Spurs, he's a young guy, but in that sense, I though last night's game was a negative in that quest (specifically on what he needs to do to stick around and not merely wearing a suit behind the bench). I have no problem with disagreement or criticism, everybody is certainly en led to their opinion.

[Brazil]

everybody is certainly en led to their opinion.

yup


unless they disagree with me

[Malik Hairston]

timvp was extremely biased with his grades, tbh..

[lefty]

timvp was extremely biased with his grades, tbh..

troof bombs

" We agree 999% with your grades timvp; you are never wrong; amazing job again; we're friends now, right?




















Right? "

[spurs10]

This is a thoughtful thread reminiscent of why most people wanted to be a part of ST in the first place. Yes, it is work to do this i'm sure. Thanks for your effort man!