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  1. #526
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    ....the Police meanwhile are getting their story straight...Michael Brown laid shot in the streets of Ferguson for almost 2 hours...

  2. #527
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Brown is dead....
    Maybe the first factual statement you've posted. He is, indeed, dead.

  3. #528
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    ....the Police meanwhile are getting their story straight...Michael Brown laid shot in the streets of Ferguson for almost 2 hours...
    I heard it was 4 1/2 hours.

  4. #529
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    .....after hearing the story from Wilson anyone who has any competency in law enforcement, knows that Wilson should have handled this incident better from the start...

  5. #530
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    .....after hearing the story from Wilson anyone who has any competency in law enforcement, knows that Wilson should have handled this incident better from the start...
    I won't disagree with this but, at the point Brown pinned him in his patrol vehicle, assaulted him, and tried to disarm him, it sounds like he acted appropriately.

  6. #531
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    .....so they have to dehumanize Brown in the press...calling his behavior 'possessed'...or 'demon-like"...

  7. #532
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    The police union makes a deal with the DA...

  8. #533
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    ...the police let the myth that Brown robbed the inconvenience store go unabated in the wing-nut media

  9. #534
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    ....Wilson walk with no charges.....

  10. #535
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    ..but can no longer work for the Ferguson police department..

  11. #536
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    ...the police let the myth that Brown robbed the inconvenience store go unabated in the wing-nut media
    Why? It doesn't lessen or augment the crime he committed against Wilson.

  12. #537
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Why? It doesn't lessen or augment the crime he committed against Wilson.
    cover....after harassing Brown and Johnson for walking down the street...Wilson needed cover...

    ...and it makes Brown look like he had just committed a felony and was trying to get away...

  13. #538
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Brown had not committed a crime....so he had no reason to fear Wilson....he was not fleeing the scene of a crime...

  14. #539
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    cover....after harassing Brown and Johnson for walking down the street...Wilson needed cover...
    I believe there are dispatch recordings that demonstrate a person fitting Brown's description was being sought regarding an incident at the convenience store. Wilson didn't need any cover for approaching a couple of guys walking down the middle of the street. He also didn't need cover for shooting a person who had assaulted, tried to disarm him, and was in the process of assaulting him again.

    ...and it makes Brown look like he had just committed a felony and was trying to get away...
    Without conceding your point about the non-robbery (I've quickly looked at a couple of stories) but, I'm not finding any explanation for why Brown apparently assaulted the store owner on the way out. Is that explained anywhere?

  15. #540
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    I won't disagree with this but, at the point Brown pinned him in his patrol vehicle, assaulted him, and tried to disarm him, it sounds like he acted appropriately.
    Well, but the incident should never have escalated to the point it did...If Wilson just had a bit thicker skin and just let Brown comments go there would have not been an incident..

  16. #541
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    So we agree that the capricious violence of LE against citizens is a problem.
    Presumably, stressing other problems does not minimize, nor does it solve the problem.
    Some might argue the other problems are leading to the capriciousness of the police. I know I would.
    Do you think LE should be held to account for arbitrary force, deadly home invasion techniques and unlawful shootings?
    Oh my goodness. An actual discussion about real issues in this thread without a bunch of "Hooray Team!" stuff attached to it!

    Whatever justifications might exist for permitting the use of lethal force by police officers, there does seem to be at least some anecdotal evidence of at least two truths: (1) that force, when used, is -- at least in a considerable number of situations -- exercised with questionable justification (at best); and (2) the threat of that force doesn't seem to have quelled the trust in and/or the hostility exhibited in some parts of society toward law enforcement officers. I don't think the issue is purely racial, though I also suspect that the demographic that is most likely to encounter police in situations in which force might be used is the poor black male, and for that reason, there is some basis for people to perceive the problem to be race-based.

    Ultimately, there's a circularity to the problem. I think we've made it too easy for police officers to resort to lethal force and the more lethal force is available, the more likely it becomes that the use of excessive force will become fatal. There are undoubtedly cir stances in which suspects engage in behavior that legitimately endangers the lives of others, but using lethal force to subdue any recalcitrant suspect seems needlessly risky to the lives of those who may have done nothing more than be su ious of law enforcement personnel (who may have reason to be su ious because there are a number of cir stances in which law enforcement personnel have overstepped and unjustifiably harassed people who really weren't doing anything that required law enforcement involvement).

    There's no simple solution, but I think that pretending that it's not a problem is unhelpful. Obviously (and to be clear) I'm not accusing Yonivore of that, given the quoted material above. But I do think that there are many who believe that police officers are always (or at least mostly) justified in using lethal force in their encounters with suspects and that view seems to me to be untenable.

  17. #542
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    believe there are dispatch recordings that demonstrate a person fitting Brown's description was being sought regarding an incident at the convenience store. Wilson didn't need any cover for approaching a couple of guys walking down the middle of the street. He also didn't need cover for shooting a person who had assaulted, tried to disarm him, and was in the process of assaulting him again.
    According to Wilson, his radio was not working right, so he only heard a vague description of possible store robbery suspects...when he first approached Brown and Johnson he was not aware that they were the two knuckle heads who were wanted for questioning.....but again no charges would have been filed since there was no robbery..

  18. #543
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    According to Wilson, his radio was not working right, so he only heard a vague description of possible store robbery suspects...when he first approached Brown and Johnson he was not aware that they were the two knuckle heads who were wanted for questioning.....but again no charges would have been filed since there was no robbery..
    put the bottle down. shut your eyes for a while, and come back then

  19. #544
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Well, but the incident should never have escalated to the point it did...If Wilson just had a bit thicker skin and just let Brown comments go there would have not been an incident..
    I think we disagree on who instigated the violence.

  20. #545
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Without conceding your point about the non-robbery (I've quickly looked at a couple of stories) but, I'm not finding any explanation for why Brown apparently assaulted the store owner on the way out. Is that explained anywhere?
    .....some un-named sources say it was because of the price of the cigarillos.... the store owner accused Brown of being a poor broke-ass and Wilson grabbed the whole box and threw money at the owner before leaving the store...

  21. #546
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    I take it your are limiting yourself to the three cases you mentioned, but there is a much wider universe of violent police encounters that people are right to be pissed about. I do agree that many of the cases selected for mediagenic outrage are far from ideal vehicles for the grievance, but that does not disconfirm the validity of the grievance itself.
    I'm not sure what the value of relitigating the Wilson no-bill offers at this point, but if it opens the door to a conversation about the issues associated with the use of lethal force in police-public encounters, then the case is useful.

  22. #547
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    .....some un-named sources say it was because of the price of the cigarillos.... the store owner accused Brown of being a poor broke-ass and Wilson grabbed the whole box and threw money at the owner before leaving the store...
    So, was it enough to pay for the cigarillos?

  23. #548
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    So, was it enough to pay for the cigarillos?
    No charges were filed....

  24. #549
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    No charges were filed....
    The alleged perpetrator was dead just a few minutes later.

  25. #550
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    The alleged perpetrator was dead just a few minutes later.
    Still, for insurance purposes..there has to be a police report..

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