Transgender teen kills herself and suicide note goes viral

[Buddy Mignon]

You people are ing pathetic.

[ashbeeigh]

\ he would still be a male. He would never have breasts (real with milk lol)

Wrong.

When a M2F person then cuts their dosages, specifically the progesterone, they inadvertantly mimiced the sudden drop in progesterone that happens when a woman gives birth. That triggers Stage Two Lactogenesis (also called "copious milk production"). This typically begins 30-40 hours after the drop in progesterone, but actual lactation usually doesn't start for 50-73 hours (2-3 days) after birth, so the M2F experiencing breast leakage most likely won't notice it until more than two days later, and may not make the connection that cutting their dosage triggered the lactation. As mentioned at the beginning of this section, the fluid is often yellowish. This is because it's what is called "foremilk" which is very high in fat content, and fat is yellow in color.

http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_m2f.htm

[RD2191]

Wrong.

That's the thing though. That isn't natural. That's modification or whatever the you want to call it. He wasn't born that way. And I still don't understand how that makes him a woman. On the inside he would still be a man. I can buy a honda civic and slap a Nissan gtr body kit on it, buy some gtr emblems and tell everyone that I have a gtr. That of course would be a lie though. It was and always will be a honda civic. A modified civic but still a civic. Just as josh would have always of been a man. A man that removed his penis and took hormones or whatever to become LIKE a woman but never truly a woman/female.

[ashbeeigh]

That's the thing though. That isn't natural. That's modification or whatever the you want to call it. He wasn't born that way. And I still don't understand how that makes him a woman. On the inside he would still be a man. .

It sure is. But you seem yo be getting gender and sex mixed up. Yes, she would always be biologically male (her sex), with an XY chromosome. But, her gender would be female. Being a man and a woman is a social construct that you've obviously put into neat little boxes colored blue and pink. Being a boy and a girl is more than just blue and pink.

[ashbeeigh]

There are currently 6 users browsing this thread. (4 members and 2 guests)
ashbeeigh, vander, z0sa+, ATRAIN+

Oh you, again.

[vander]

It sure is. But you seem yo be getting gender and sex mixed up. Yes, she would always be biologically male (her sex), with an XY chromosome. But, her gender would be female. Being a man and a woman is a social construct that you've obviously put into neat little boxes colored blue and pink. Being a boy and a girl is more than just blue and pink.

so you have to undergo surgery and take drugs to "culturally" become the other gender?

[RD2191]

It sure is. But you seem yo be getting gender and sex mixed up. Yes, she would always be biologically male (her sex), with an XY chromosome. But, her gender would be female. Being a man and a woman is a social construct that you've obviously put into neat little boxes colored blue and pink. Being a boy and a girl is more than just blue and pink.

So you're saying I can be a woman? Do you really believe that? So how does one determine what they are? Is it okay if a grown man who claims to be a woman now is allowed into a woman's bathroom? Even with children in there? What if he's a pedo? How would anyone know if he was lying or telling the truth? If Josh wanted to be a woman why not just dress as a woman? Why the need to remove his penis? Who would even know that he was born a male unless he told them? What acceptance was he looking for? Did he want people to say okay you were born a male but you are a woman? That's what would make him a woman?

[ashbeeigh]

so you have to undergo surgery and take drugs to "culturally" become the other gender?

That's up to the person to decide. You'd need to talk to someone who is transgender to find out whether your statement is true or not.

[RD2191]

So what is a woman and what is a man? If both are made up then how does one define what makes one what? A girl wears dresses and makeup and a man wears boots and jeans? Says who? What Josh wanted was to be a female. Which would be impossible. If he truly believed he was a woman what acceptance was he looking for? What reassurance or conformation did he need?

[ashbeeigh]

So you're saying I can be a woman?

Sure. If you think you're a woman.

Do you really believe that? So how does one determine what they are?

I'm not transgender so I can't answer that.

Is it okay if a grown man who claims to be a woman now is allowed into a woman's bathroom?

Google http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your...r/restroom-faq

Even with children in there?

If it's my child I've raised them enough to not judge someone.

What if he's a pedo?

There is a psychological component to transitional surgery. A surgeon, ethically would not be able to complete a gender reassignment surgery if someone was a do ent sex offender.

] How would anyone know if he was lying or telling the truth?

Don't know.

If Josh wanted to be a woman why not just dress as a woman?

Sure. But again, like I said, it's up to that specific person to decide what they are comfortable with.

Why the need to remove his penis?

See above

Who would even know that he was born a male unless he told them?

That's what culture does to you.

What acceptance was he looking for?

She was looking to be accepted as she was. Whether it was a male or female. Read the letter.

Did he want people to say okay you were born a male but you are a woman?

Sounds about right to me. And also 'I love you no matter what you are.'

That's what would make him a woman?

Again, not my place to say.

[RD2191]

In this situation acceptance means his parents paying for his surgery. It's gotta be tough for parents to pay for their son to have his penis removed at such a young age. Not knowing if that's what they really truly want. Couple of years later and he might blame his parents for allowing him to do it when he was just a teen. Just full of , imo.

[ashbeeigh]

In this situation acceptance means his parents paying for his surgery. It's gotta be tough for parents to pay for their son to have his penis removed at such a young age. Not knowing if that's what they really truly want. Couple of years later and he might blame his parents for allowing him to do it when he was just a teen. Just full of , imo.

I think the surgery played a small part in this, it's the lack of acceptance and hateful attempts to set her straight is what, I believe played the largest part in her death.

Another thing to note is that transgender is not a phase. It's not teenage rebellion, which you seem to characterize it as.

[RD2191]

I think the surgery played a small part in this, it's the lack of acceptance and hateful attempts to set her straight is what, I believe played the largest part in her death.

Another thing to note is that transgender is not a phase. It's not teenage rebellion, which you seem to characterize it as.

But as a parent it has to be a very difficult situation to be in. I changed my mind/views about 10 times a day when I was 16. I don't understand how them trying to do what was best (in their mind) was hateful. This is like a teen asking if they can pierce or tattoo their bodies. It isn't easy to say yes as a parent to something that can affect their children's entire lives. And his parents may of never accepted him. That's just the way it is.

[ashbeeigh]

. I don't understand how them trying to do what was best (in their mind) was hateful.It isn't easy to say yes as a parent to something that can affect their children's entire lives. And his parents may of never accepted him. That's just the way it is.

Are you a parent? It doesn't sound like it. I'm not either, but I do know plenty of them and work with some pretty rowdy out of control kids daily at work. From what I have learned from those experiences is that parents should love their kids unconditionally, no if ands or buts about it, and that includes if they don't agree with you. You, as a parent, may not want them in your home or not talk to them regularly because you don't agree with their views, but you still love them. A parent should be wiling to listen to their children and that's what Leelah's parents did not do, which, in my mind, is unacceptable and hateful.

I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn’t make mistakes, that I am wrong.

[RD2191]

I just think this was a very confused young man. He was attracted to males, I'm guessing. Maybe in his mind he was trying to justify that by claiming to be a woman in a males body. Because as I said before, what would make him a woman? What is a woman? What does a woman do? And anything that can be answered is something society me up or geared towards I guess you could say.

[ashbeeigh]

I Because as I said before, what would make him a woman? What is a woman? What does a woman do? And anything that can be answered is something society me up or geared towards I guess you could say.

Well done, you seem to be getting it. Boy/girl is a social construct and Leelah did not fit into those boxes. And that's where society has gone wrong.

[RD2191]

Are you a parent? It doesn't sound like it. I'm not either, but I do know plenty of them and work with some pretty rowdy out of control kids daily at work. From what I have learned from those experiences is that parents should love their kids unconditionally, no if ands or buts about it, and that includes if they don't agree with you. You, as a parent, may not want them in your home or not talk to them regularly because you don't agree with their views, but you still love them. A parent should be wiling to listen to their children and that's what Leelah's parents did not do, which, in my mind, is unacceptable and hateful.

Take God out of it and his mom would still be technically correct. She was being truthful. In her mind she was doing what she could. No one is perfect. I don't think the parents were to blame here. They loved Josh. Do you think if they didn't that they would take him to therapy or whatever? They obviously cared. They had different views but who doesn't?

[Strange Love]

I just think this was a very confused young man.

Tell that to the million of already transgender people.

You're talking like you're an expert of what goes in the mind of these people.

We cant relate because we're straight. But to them, I'm sure its quite different.

Do you personally know any gays? I bet they have told you they've felt that way since probably childhood.

Apply the same logic to transgender people and its not such a hard leap.

[ashbeeigh]

Take God out of it and his mom would still be technically correct. She was being truthful. In her mind she was doing what she could. No one is perfect. I don't think the parents were to blame here. They loved Josh. Do you think if they didn't that they would take him to therapy or whatever? They obviously cared. They had different views but who doesn't?

The thing is, you can't take God out of it. It's a huge part of what makes this story what it is. If Leelah had gone to a therapist who has training in the stages of coming out ( you not, that is a legit theory and I'm borderline not sure how i feel about it...but that's another story) things may have turned out drastically different.

[ashbeeigh]

So what is a woman and what is a man? If both are made up then how does one define what makes one what? A girl wears dresses and makeup and a man wears boots and jeans? Says who? What Josh wanted was to be a female. Which would be impossible. If he truly believed he was a woman what acceptance was he looking for? What reassurance or conformation did he need?

I missed this one but it appears we've kind of answered this as you've confused sex and gender here. And ultimately, a child wants to be accepted by their parents, which she wasn't.

[RD2191]

The thing is, you can't take God out of it. It's a huge part of what makes this story what it is. If Leelah had gone to a therapist who has training in the stages of coming out ( you not, that is a legit theory and I'm borderline not sure how i feel about it...but that's another story) things may have turned out drastically different.

Maybe, but that still doesn't mean he would of been accepted by the rest of society in general. He still probably would of faced adversity/difficulty for the rest of his life. And a persons beliefs are their own. They may be right or wrong but they have every right to believe them. Josh also had every right to believe what he wanted but at the end of the day his parents were doing what they thought was right.

[RD2191]

I missed this one but it appears we've kind of answered this as you've confused sex and gender here. And ultimately, a child wants to be accepted by their parents, which she wasn't.

But that's not how it works. How would removing his penis of made him anymore of a woman? As I said before he was trying to be a female which would of been impossible. By society's definition one could argue that he was already a woman. But then again what makes a woman a woman?

[ashbeeigh]

Maybe, but that still doesn't mean he would of been accepted by the rest of society in general. He still probably would of faced adversity/difficulty for the rest of his life. And a persons beliefs are their own. They may be right or wrong but they have every right to believe them. Josh also had every right to believe what he wanted but at the end of the day his parents were doing what they thought was right.

I understand where you're coming from. But, as a parent, you gotta make changes, adjust, learn, accept. No matter what. That will be my approach to parenting. And your job, as a parent, is to be there for your child when they face that type of adversity. Absolutely Leelah would have faced adversity, and probably had, but your parents are supposed to be your champion, your cheerleader, your obsessed fan, and Leelah's parents failed at that.

But that's not how it works. How would removing his penis of made him anymore of a woman? As I said before he was trying to be a female which would of been impossible. By society's definition one could argue that he was already a woman. But then again what makes a woman a woman?

This is another one that you'll have to ask someone who is tansgender. I have no idea.

[RD2191]

Tell that to the million of already transgender people.

You're talking like you're an expert of what goes in the mind of these people.

We cant relate because we're straight. But to them, I'm sure its quite different.

Do you personally know any gays? I bet they have told you they've felt that way since probably childhood.

Apply the same logic to transgender people and its not such a hard leap.

A male born a male is a male and will always be a male. Now, they may be attracted to men but they're still male. Removing their penis wouldn't make them any less male than they were before.

[UZER]

Are you a parent? It doesn't sound like it. I'm not either, but I do know plenty of them and work with some pretty rowdy out of control kids daily at work. From what I have learned from those experiences is that parents should love their kids unconditionally, no if ands or buts about it, and that includes if they don't agree with you. You, as a parent, may not want them in your home or not talk to them regularly because you don't agree with their views, but you still love them. A parent should be wiling to listen to their children and that's what Leelah's parents did not do, which, in my mind, is unacceptable and hateful.

Unbelievable.