Kawhi. What's the story? How long is he out for? How bad is the injury? Any progress?

[rasuo214]

Losing Tim isn't a binary function. What is binary is that players are either in or they aren't in. BLAH BLAH BLAH.


The same argument can be made for anyone on the team.

[wildchild]

Like I said, if the Spurs are going to lose to sub .500 teams because one of their players is out, they aren't very strong to begin with. He's not a PG, he doesn't run the offense and the Spurs don't really even call plays for him. He's important, absolutely, but so is Tony and so is Danny's shooting stroke. Take those two out (and Patty's conditioning and shooting) and you suddenly have a .500 or so level team.

Agree with you. Only if Spurs lose three players it can match the effects of Kawhi's absence. Three players to try to replace one.

Right now they don't since he's not playing. Surely you don't think Pop is calling plays for a guy who's not on the floor.

Leonard's not dead, hopefully he doesn't have a season-ending injury, it's nothing wrong with talk about him and his season in present.

Tim, Tony and Manu are still the engine of the Spurs.

Can't sum up the whole thing in this ^.
"Kawhi is a role player" is an old take and clearly not representative of the team's reality.

I have no ing idea what you just said, what it means or whatever. Sounds like something passive aggressive

You should know what I mean if you say people assign Leonard's value for only three good games...when he played a lot of great games.

[DMC]

Agree with you. Only if Spurs lose three players it can match the effects of Kawhi's absence. Three players to try to replace one.

That's re ed.

Leonard's not dead, hopefully he doesn't have a season-ending injury, it's nothing wrong with talk about him and his season in present.

My point is that Pop has plays for situations where players are out so whether or not Leonard is part of the offense when he's healthy has nothing to do with what the Spurs run when he's not.

Can't sum up the whole thing in this ^.
"Kawhi is a role player" is an old take and clearly not representative of the team's reality.

He's not a role player, but he's not yet the "straw that stirs the drink" so to speak. Everything he's done has been on the shoulders of the big 3. He looks like he can do great things, and has done some great things already, but he's only a few years into the league and you're comparing him to guys who have been the main force in SA for a decade or more.

You should know what I mean if you say people assign Leonard's value for only three good games...when he played a lot of great games.

Leonard missed a crucial FT in game 6 of the 2013 Finals. So did Manu, and Manu had a ton of turnovers. If you put the success of the Spurs on Leonard's shoulders, you're an idiot.

[DMC]

Losing Tim isn't a binary function. What is binary is that players are either in or they aren't in. BLAH BLAH BLAH.


The same argument can be made for anyone on the team.

That's not what I said, idiot. I said Tony losing his speed isn't a binary function. Try to keep up, fanboi.

[DMC]

The spurs have a winning record against teams without Parker in the last two years..So NO..Taking him out does not = Kawhi out.

The Spurs' success is due to them not being overly dependent on any one player. You're now saying they cannot win without Kawhi. That goes totally against Pop's method and the Spurs system.

[rasuo214]

That's not what I said, idiot. I said Tony losing his speed isn't a binary function. Try to keep up, fanboi.

You're a ing idiot if you think the Spurs have a binary outcome based on Kawhi being on the floor.

The loss isn't a binary function. What is binary is that players are either in or they aren't in. Tony hasn't been in much, Patty hasn't been in at all until lately. Tiago came around late. Marco has been playing poorly. Manu started off slow. Danny can't throw the ball into the ocean. Tim is Tim, like always, 20/10 guy.

...

[DMC]

"What changed...? Tim and Manu took more rest of their offensive responsibilities than other seasons (before his hand injury Duncan was 3rd and Manu 4th scoring leaders) and with Tony eventual loss of speed as he ages -more noticeable this season because injuries limited him- Leonard emerged like a genuine offensive option."


"The loss isn't a binary function. What is binary is that players are either in or they aren't in. Tony hasn't been in much, Patty hasn't been in at all until lately. Tiago came around late. Marco has been playing poorly. Manu started off slow. Danny can't throw the ball into the ocean. Tim is Tim, like always, 20/10 guy."

Context... dip

I notice most here who responded didn't put the Spurs at zero wins with Kawhi out in January. That means it's not a binary outcome. Affects the game, doesn't decide it.

[Robz4000]

The Spurs' success is due to them not being overly dependent on any one player. You're now saying they cannot win without Kawhi. That goes totally against Pop's method and the Spurs system.

Their RS success, yes. However, once the postseason comes around the Spurs may be the most susceptible to dropping in status due to injury. What makes the Spurs so tough to beat is their adaptability and versatility; they can play any style of basketball and do it better than just about any other team out there. That is able to be done because of the diversity of the roster. Lets say Diaw gets hurt and misses the playoffs. In that scenario the Spurs would be ed just as well if it were Duncan, Leonard, Parker, or Manu. The Spurs as I see it have 7-8 unreplaceable pieces in Tim, Kawhi, Manu, Tony, Boris, Splitter, Green, and Mills (though CoJo looks like he might be able to cover should Mills go down). Without one of those players the Spurs lose a facet of their game and become very vulnerable. While its true they can beat most teams on chemistry and system-play alone, to beat the teams with more talent like OKC/Dallas/Chicago/Golden State/Portland they'll need to be at full strength to overcome that disadvantage.

[DMC]

Their RS success, yes. However, once the postseason comes around the Spurs may be the most susceptible to dropping in status due to injury. What makes the Spurs so tough to beat is their adaptability and versatility; they can play any style of basketball and do it better than just about any other team out there. That is able to be done because of the diversity of the roster. Lets say Diaw gets hurt and misses the playoffs. In that scenario the Spurs would be ed just as well if it were Duncan, Leonard, Parker, or Manu. The Spurs as I see it have 7-8 unreplaceable pieces in Tim, Kawhi, Manu, Tony, Boris, Splitter, Green, and Mills (though CoJo looks like he might be able to cover should Mills go down). Without one of those players the Spurs lose a facet of their game and become very vulnerable. While its true they can beat most teams on chemistry and system-play alone, to beat the teams with more talent like OKC/Dallas/Chicago/Golden State/Portland they'll need to be at full strength to overcome that disadvantage.

But we are in the RS now, and the slump is what we are talking about. I've already agreed that a deep post season run requires all your guys be healthy. Even if Manu was injured, we'd be ed, and Manu isn't even the contributor he used to be.

Kawhi being out isn't the issue. The team is playing poorly on both ends. You go that far in the playoffs three consecutive years and it's going to weigh on everyone from the ownership down to the bench.

[rasuo214]

The Spurs' success is due to them not being overly dependent on any one player. You're now saying they cannot win without Kawhi. That goes totally against Pop's method and the Spurs system.

But the Spurs would be screwed if they lost TD...

[DMC]

But the Spurs would be screwed if they lost TD...

Context

[Robz4000]

But we are in the RS now, and the slump is what we are talking about. I've already agreed that a deep post season run requires all your guys be healthy. Even if Manu was injured, we'd be ed, and Manu isn't even the contributor he used to be.

Didn't bother to read most of this thread tbh. My bad.

[rasuo214]

"What changed...? Tim and Manu took more rest of their offensive responsibilities than other seasons (before his hand injury Duncan was 3rd and Manu 4th scoring leaders) and with Tony eventual loss of speed as he ages -more noticeable this season because injuries limited him- Leonard emerged like a genuine offensive option."


"The loss isn't a binary function. What is binary is that players are either in or they aren't in. Tony hasn't been in much, Patty hasn't been in at all until lately. Tiago came around late. Marco has been playing poorly. Manu started off slow. Danny can't throw the ball into the ocean. Tim is Tim, like always, 20/10 guy."

Context... dip

I notice most here who responded didn't put the Spurs at zero wins with Kawhi out in January. That means it's not a binary outcome. Affects the game, doesn't decide it.

You're right context is important, your response was a discussion on why Kawhi has become a bigger part of the offense. Maybe next time you should clarify when you change the topic instead of getting butthurt over it.

[DMC]

You're right context is important, your response was a discussion on why Kawhi has become a bigger part of the offense. Maybe next time you should clarify when you change the topic instead of getting butthurt over it.

My response wasn't to you. Maybe you should read the post before making one of your own. Learn how to use quote tags instead of paraphrasing.

[rasuo214]

Context

If Duncan was out for a month or two, you'd see how much he's missed. Tiago can do some work but he's not Tim, and there's just no one to guard the paint when Tim is out. Tim, Tony and Manu are still the engine of the Spurs. Kawhi is moving right up in there, but the team can still be RS successful with Kawhi out. They have the ball movement and chemistry to win games they've been losing this year.

Team performs poorly with Kawhi out = It's because the rest of the team is playing poorly
Team performs poorly with TD out = It's because TD is vital to the team.

If you're going to make the Pop's method argument at least try to be consistent in the same thread.

[DMC]

Team performs poorly with Kawhi out = It's because the rest of the team is playing poorly
Team performs poorly with TD out = It's because TD is vital to the team.

If you're going to make the Pop's method argument at least try to be consistent in the same thread.

Now you're inferring things I didn't say. I said Tim is the most irreplaceable part. He's leading the race for DPOY and he's a regular 20/10 guy. Kawhi is a great defender, but he's nowhere near that.

[rasuo214]

My response wasn't to you. Maybe you should read the post before making one of your own. Learn how to use quote tags instead of paraphrasing.

um my response clearly indicates that I read all the posts. Also lol at you getting offended about my response when your entire argument has been about the loss of Kawhi isn't binary.

[DMC]

um my response clearly indicates that I read all the posts. Also lol at you getting offended about my response when your entire argument has been about the loss of Kawhi isn't binary.

You're not very bright.

[rasuo214]

Now you're inferring things I didn't say. I said Tim is the most irreplaceable part. He's leading the race for DPOY and he's a regular 20/10 guy. Kawhi is a great defender, but he's nowhere near that.

You implied that Kawhi was the 4th? most important player on the team (TD/Manu/TP being the engine) when all the facts point to him being at least the 2nd most important (on/off court stats, WAR, RPM) and arguably the most important because he lacks a decent replacement.

Personally I would say that losing Kawhi is as big as losing TD. TD is no longer a 20/10 guy (he hasn't been one in almost a decade), what makes him so vital to the team, and what makes Kawhi so vital is their impact on the defensive end.

[rasuo214]

You're not very bright.

Maybe if I speak in simpler terms and use your idiotic logic I can be as bright as you.

Kawhi isn't the leading scorer on the team so he sucks and is easily replaced. Better?

[DMC]

Maybe if I speak in simpler terms and use your idiotic logic I can be as bright as you.

Kawhi isn't the leading scorer on the team so he sucks and is easily replaced. Better?

You're basically "PlayLeonard" of ST. You fit right in with the other "PlayXXX" user names. Every other post you've ever created here is about Kawhi.

Let me help you out:

1. Learn to use the quote function. It's there for a reason, so you don't end up arguing with a nozzle like you about paraphrased you didn't even say.
2. Read the thread before responding.
3. Learn the game of basketball (it's not just about having a favorite player).

[Robz4000]

Man, the crops of new GNSFs get worse and worse every season...

[DMC]

Man, the crops of new GNSFs get worse and worse every season...

80% of the guy's posts are regarding Kawhi Leonard.

[Sean Cagney]

Man, the crops of new GNSFs get worse and worse every season...

They are F in horrible, excuse my french.

[rasuo214]

Oh no a Kawhi fan! If only I made a bunch of pointless posts a day, then I'd fit in...