Obummer: "Free" College for Everyone!

[ElNono]

I'm sure there is truth to that but comparing what a community college offers versus a vocational school I'd say the vocational school does a better job of preparing someone to actually get a job. The SAC program just seems like a prep program to go onto a 4 year degree which is a waste of time for someone who already decided not to pursue a 4 year degree for whatever reason.

I think that's the main thing... people that get deep in debt for a 4 year degree, but 2 years into it realize it's not what they really want, but don't want to get out and pursue something else because they're already too indebted to back out. I think this is where this program could help.

I agree that vocational school probably prepares you better for specific jobs, but that's why I pointed out that I was hoping there would be some additional funding there: government support for vocational schools have been dwindling down for quite a while now.

[boutons_deux]

You are a stupid .

I didn't say K12 was failing to teach and prepare for jobs and college. I said K12 has been good enough, and scamming charter schools, almost a total failure, aren't the solution to anything except enriching BigCorp and 1% who don't GAF about education, just like Christian schools priority is indoctrination in Bible bull , NOT in general education.

I remember some guy getting a huge laugh on a late night show, Carson?, a LONG TIME AGO, where he said the education reformers were extremely pleased that they had wondrously SUCEEDED in getting college freshman up to ING 8TH GRADE level in math and English.

and you right wingers, following VERBATIM the VRWC dictation, lay the ENTIRE blame for schools not teaching well on teachers, whom you REFUSE to pay well and don't demand high teaching standards.

http://247wallst.com/special-report/...F7+Wall+St.%29

[angrydude]

America would be better off getting off it's fascination with school and getting fascinated with on the job training. It's all you need--unless you can't read or write. In which case community college isn't going to help you.

[ElNono]

America would be better off getting off it's fascination with school and getting fascinated with on the job training. It's all you need--unless you can't read or write. In which case community college isn't going to help you.

Don't disagree, but a lot of job postings demand that you have a degree, and the general impression is that employers don't really want to spend the necessary time and money training employees.

[boutons_deux]

America would be better off getting off it's fascination with school and getting fascinated with on the job training. It's all you need--unless you can't read or write. In which case community college isn't going to help you.

The Germans have been huge believers and implementers of very SUCCESSFUL vocational/on-the-job training for a long time. Of course, the employers have to play along, and they do.

America's general snobbism about voc school vs academic college as THE ONLY WAY UP probably kills America doing the German way.

[boutons_deux]

btw, if Obama's "free" community college flies, you can be DAMN SURE the Repug/red states won't chip in their 25%, which would kill it in red states. Repug/red states ALWAYS their citizens.

[tlongII]

The problem with K-12 education is in the ridiculous cost of the administration. I'm all for paying teachers, but the administration cost is ridiculous. It's just another example of fat, inefficient government bureaucracy with guaranteed, over-inflated wages.

[boutons_deux]

The problem with K-12 education is in the ridiculous cost of the administration. I'm all for paying teachers, but the administration cost is ridiculous. It's just another example of fat, inefficient government bureaucracy with guaranteed, over-inflated wages.

yes, k12 admin overhead is apparently very high, and many of the administrators have never been teachers.

[SnakeBoy]

Maybe it's because I'm a parent, but this seems like a good thing to me.

It's probably not, never going to happen anyway.

[CosmicCowboy]

Basically it just creates K-14. Sadly, it does nothing to address the actual cost of "higher" education which has risen at more than double the inflation rate for decades. The price increases were driven by "easy money" student loans which are now killing the recipients of the bloated cost degrees they purchased.

[boutons_deux]

Basically it just creates K-14. Sadly, it does nothing to address the actual cost of "higher" education which has risen at more than double the inflation rate for decades. The price increases were driven by "easy money" student loans which are now killing the recipients of the bloated cost degrees they purchased.

there is also the very strong up of managing schools, colleges as "corporations". The corporate model just sucks in so many ways, eg, tiest possible (education) product for the highest possible price. plus the idea that school admin, having never taught, as "business managers", can set classroom policies.

[CosmicCowboy]

there is also the very strong up of managing schools, colleges as "corporations". The corporate model just sucks in so many ways, eg, tiest possible (education) product for the highest possible price. plus the idea that school admin, having never taught, as "business managers", can set classroom policies.

Clearly something was very ed up with YOUR education.

[angrydude]

Don't disagree, but a lot of job postings demand that you have a degree, and the general impression is that employers don't really want to spend the necessary time and money training employees.

Only because of the stupid rigid all or nothing culture in this country.

[ElNono]

They won't touch the BS government backed loans that are the main part of private colleges' gravy train... too much money at stake there... which is another reason why this won't be generally effective...

[boutons_deux]

Clearly something was very ed up with YOUR education.

CC joins TB on The Great Boutons' stalker team.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...lege/21466969/

Translation: Obummer wants to gouge the taxpayers for a watered-down college "education" from the same people who ruined K-12 schools.

We should be spending far more on it.

Our schools are just fine, despite the scaremongering.

Not great, but not as bad as many like to think. The Outrage Machine makes more money by playing up the faults and ignoring the good parts.

[RandomGuy]

there is also the very strong up of managing schools, colleges as "corporations". The corporate model just sucks in so many ways, eg, tiest possible (education) product for the highest possible price. plus the idea that school admin, having never taught, as "business managers", can set classroom policies.

Free markets and their inherent negative/positive feedbacks have their place, but education is not one of the things where one can apply free market principles to, as the assumptions and mechanisms required breakdown.

Education is simply not something that lends itself to "free market" solutions, any more than health care does.

[angrydude]

Free markets and their inherent negative/positive feedbacks have their place, but education is not one of the things where one can apply free market principles to, as the assumptions and mechanisms required breakdown.

Education is simply not something that lends itself to "free market" solutions, any more than health care does.

Wait, so government subsidies for all now equals free market principles?

Got it. free market = Government when you don't like the outcome.

[boutons_deux]

DumbDude, You Are Really Dumb, For Real.

[Infinite_limit]

Would require strict requirements
- 3.0 GPA
- Atleast 15 credits attempted


Then I think most people would be for it

[CosmicCowboy]

duplicate

[CosmicCowboy]

I would support that. Might have to make it 13 hours, though.

[boutons_deux]

7 Conservatives Who Went to Publicly Subsidized Colleges Complain About Free Community College


http://www.alternet.org/education/7-...ter1030034&t=3

[RandomGuy]

Wait, so government subsidies for all now equals free market principles?

Got it. free market = Government when you don't like the outcome.

???

Um, whut?

You might want to try using complete sentences and maybe, just maybe, string together some coherent thoughts. Try this:




Then explain to my dumb ass just what the you are trying to say, cause I really can't make much sense of it.

[TeyshaBlue]

CC joins TB on The Great Boutons' stalker team.

Nobody stalks you, rat er. We just mock you and your asinine spit takes.
Stalking