Obummer: "Free" College for Everyone!

[Nbadan]

naturally BB would be appalled by this (as am I). Troof is, most 50k jobs don't require a lick of knowledge beyond 7th grade math though. It's also acceptable as a stepping stone to jobs requiring a bit more of an analytic/quan ative background.

I really doubt that any student with the problem solving skills of a 7th grader would be good at any 50K job....only mathematicians and engineers really need math beyond Cal 2...

[CosmicCowboy]

I'd be fine with it if we didn't have to take their ing humanities courses. What a load of crap, I have to take English in an impacted course with all the humanities majors but those pricks don't have to take my calc or linear algebra?

LOL I took all the college level english and math in high school and tested out of english in college. Tested out of 15 hours before I ever hit campus. Was forced to take a "psychology for Engineers" class that really pissed me off, though. I fought with that prick in every single class. He was out of his ing mind. I remember that one thing he stated as fact was that people in the US would not need cars by the year 2000 because we would have mass transit everywhere. He would lecture and I would then politely ask " Are you going to test us on this?' If he said yes, I would politely ask "well then do we give the RIGHT answer or the bull answer you just gave in your lecture?".

[Agloco]

I really doubt that any student with the problem solving skills of a 7th grader would be good at any 50K job....only mathematicians and engineers really need math beyond Cal 2...

Yeah, except that's not what I said. It is possible to have problem solving skills well beyond the 7th grade level and cap out at 7th grade math proficiency.

[Agloco]

I'd be fine with it if we didn't have to take their ing humanities courses. What a load of crap, I have to take English in an impacted course with all the humanities majors but those pricks don't have to take my calc or linear algebra?

Everyone needs Emile Durkheim, no one needs your matrices.

It's pretty silly though. Do I really need more English as a science major? And vice versa.

[baseline bum]

Everyone needs Emile Durkheim, no one needs your matrices.

It's pretty silly though. Do I really need more English as a science major? And vice versa.

If I have to read ing Chaucer in 1300's Middle English those gots should have to prove the spectral theorem.

[RandomGuy]

I'd be fine with it if we didn't have to take their ing humanities courses. What a load of crap, I have to take English in an impacted course with all the humanities majors but those pricks don't have to take my calc or linear algebra?

A healthy sense of curiosity is, IMO, more important for a good scientist than linear algebra. The math is necessary, but not sufficient.

Looking up and out beyond one's field of study is what sets truly brilliant minds apart from mediocre ones.


Science, more than ever, needs thoughtful considerations of ethics and standards of behavior, and those kinds of things are to be found in those humanities courses.


To be clear: meant as advice, and not commentary on anyone in particular, i.e. brain droppings.

[RandomGuy]

LOL I took all the college level english and math in high school and tested out of english in college. Tested out of 15 hours before I ever hit campus. Was forced to take a "psychology for Engineers" class that really pissed me off, though. I fought with that prick in every single class. He was out of his ing mind. I remember that one thing he stated as fact was that people in the US would not need cars by the year 2000 because we would have mass transit everywhere. He would lecture and I would then politely ask " Are you going to test us on this?' If he said yes, I would politely ask "well then do we give the RIGHT answer or the bull answer you just gave in your lecture?".

+1

[baseline bum]

A healthy sense of curiosity is, IMO, more important for a good scientist than linear algebra. The math is necessary, but not sufficient.

Looking up and out beyond one's field of study is what sets truly brilliant minds apart from mediocre ones.


Science, more than ever, needs thoughtful considerations of ethics and standards of behavior, and those kinds of things are to be found in those humanities courses.


To be clear: meant as advice, and not commentary on anyone in particular, i.e. brain droppings.

LOL try understanding quantum mechanics without linear algebra. OK, now try understanding it without Chaucer.

So what did Einstein publish of note outside physics? Or Weinberg, what did he do in the humanities? Yeah, Newton's work in alchemy and religious mumbo-jumbo was groundbreaking.

[Blizzardwizard]

Obama couldn't be more right in that video.

I wish I lived in Liberal America sometimes. Better than the crap heap that is conservatism and a cons utional monarchy..

[pgardn]

Our schools are such . Blows me away when I talk to French and German students who take analysis with measure theory and abstract algebra in second year undergrad. I can live with precal as an exit requirement though.

They are not . There are some excellent public schools. The problem is that public schools most often reflect the socioeconomic status of the surrounding area. People who never benefitted from education don't value it. Parents are the major problems. When a school is loaded with kids and parents that don't care guess what kind of teachers and school you get? AND we do not track students. Those kids in France and Germany are already culled. Their cohorts who could not handle academics went to trade school, which we lack. They cull them in middle school.

There is a reason people come here for a college education at good schools from other countries, we pack em in. We do great research, it's compe ive and we spend a good amount on it. Although that has been cut.

If we had good trade schools and culled we would be every bit as good. We already are for kids taking the AP route.

[pgardn]

LOL try understanding quantum mechanics without linear algebra. OK, now try understanding it without Chaucer.

So what did Einstein publish of note outside physics? Or Weinberg, what did he do in the humanities? Yeah, Newton's work in alchemy and religious mumbo-jumbo was groundbreaking.

I belive he is correct. Michael Faraday (very poor mathematician) one of the great experimental scientist ever and got Maxwell thinking about field theory with his papers. And even Maxwell had to be re explained and paired down. Darwin, possibly the most influential scientist the world has ever seen in setting the foundation for Biology as a whole was not a math guy. His ideas go all the way down to the molecular level. People used his ideas and put math to it (population genetics, protein folding problems) Einstein had to have help putting his ideas in mathematical form.

I am initiating this as I work with math guys who fail to see the larger ideas, and larger idea guys that don't see the math. I am fortunately somewhat of a middle man translator. This is basically why I see this dichotomy. If everyone was more like Feinman I would not have a job. I have worked with math geniuses imo, who can't relate math to some fairly simple physical ideas. They like to play math gymnastics (which is fine), but application is a problem.

I really think there is a lot of back and forth. Idea, model making abstract thinkers that tinker with basic data (the Higgs stuff) cannot necessarily write the equations to fit their ideas. And the math guys can't engineer the machines to test ideas , but they can certainly tell the engineers what won't work if the engineers can ask them the right questions.

Sorry to be so long winded, but I'm fairly passionate about this as I live with it. I'm not saying there is a perfect dichotomy, as I intentionally listed Feinmam, but I do see some real contrast.

[baseline bum]

I belive he is correct. Michael Faraday (very poor mathematician) one of the great experimental scientist ever and got Maxwell thinking about field theory with his papers. And even Maxwell had to be re explained and paired down. Darwin, possibly the most influential scientist the world has ever seen in setting the foundation for Biology as a whole was not a math guy. His ideas go all the way down to the molecular level. People used his ideas and put math to it (population genetics, protein folding problems) Einstein had to have help putting his ideas in mathematical form.

I am initiating this as I work with math guys who fail to see the larger ideas, and larger idea guys that don't see the math. I am fortunately somewhat of a middle man translator. This is basically why I see this dichotomy. If everyone was more like Feinman I would not have a job. I have worked with math geniuses imo, who can't relate math to some fairly simple physical ideas. They like to play math gymnastics (which is fine), but application is a problem.

I really think there is a lot of back and forth. Idea, model making abstract thinkers that tinker with basic data (the Higgs stuff) cannot necessarily write the equations to fit their ideas. And the math guys can't engineer the machines to test ideas , but they can certainly tell the engineers what won't work if the engineers can ask them the right questions.

Sorry to be so long winded, but I'm fairly passionate about this as I live with it. I'm not saying there is a perfect dichotomy, as I intentionally listed Feinmam, but I do see some real contrast.

I wasn't talking so much about math itself as the idea that scientists need to be well-rounded. But still, QM without linear algebra is just lots of hand waving and spookiness.

[CosmicCowboy]

freaking nerds!...

[RandomGuy]

I belive he is correct. Michael Faraday (very poor mathematician) one of the great experimental scientist ever and got Maxwell thinking about field theory with his papers. And even Maxwell had to be re explained and paired down. Darwin, possibly the most influential scientist the world has ever seen in setting the foundation for Biology as a whole was not a math guy. His ideas go all the way down to the molecular level. People used his ideas and put math to it (population genetics, protein folding problems) Einstein had to have help putting his ideas in mathematical form.

I am initiating this as I work with math guys who fail to see the larger ideas, and larger idea guys that don't see the math. I am fortunately somewhat of a middle man translator. This is basically why I see this dichotomy. If everyone was more like Feinman I would not have a job. I have worked with math geniuses imo, who can't relate math to some fairly simple physical ideas. They like to play math gymnastics (which is fine), but application is a problem.

I really think there is a lot of back and forth. Idea, model making abstract thinkers that tinker with basic data (the Higgs stuff) cannot necessarily write the equations to fit their ideas. And the math guys can't engineer the machines to test ideas , but they can certainly tell the engineers what won't work if the engineers can ask them the right questions.

Sorry to be so long winded, but I'm fairly passionate about this as I live with it. I'm not saying there is a perfect dichotomy, as I intentionally listed Feinmam, but I do see some real contrast.

I agree. There is a special skill that comes from being able to dial stuff up/down and go from high-level thinking to fine details.

That is where US schools tend to excel, I think, and why people are beating down our college doors to get into them.

[RandomGuy]

freaking nerds!...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If I have to read ing Chaucer in 1300's Middle English those gots should have to prove the spectral theorem.

Chaucer and Beowulf are about all there is in early English literature as opposed to an arbitrary post renaissance mathematical model of phenomenon in physics.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I wasn't talking so much about math itself as the idea that scientists need to be well-rounded. But still, QM without linear algebra is just lots of hand waving and spookiness.

It implies a structure or symmetry about which we have yet to intuit. The solutions work empirically. Either way the complex plane using the gaussian matrix sums still has you integrating along proportions of i. That works too but the explanations still invite quite a bit of handwaving.

[Nbadan]

Yeah, except that's not what I said. It is possible to have problem solving skills well beyond the 7th grade level and cap out at 7th grade math proficiency.

The reason people learn higher math is to improve problem-solving skills..that's why there is a problem-solving process...Yes, some kids are naturally better problem solvers but most students have to learn to become better..

[CosmicCowboy]

i hated the math problem solving "process" all through K-12 until I got to college engineering level math. i could just look at an equation and simplify it in my head. I never got 100's on math tests because I always got counted off for not "showing my work"...

[boutons_deux]

The Enchanted Land Where Community College Is Free? Welcome to Tennessee in 2015

Tennessee Gov. Bill Haslam promised his state something unprecedented: free community college tuition.

The “Tennessee Promise” is now more than a promise: It’s a law Haslam signed in May. The bill provides two years of tuition at a community college or college of applied technology for any high school graduate who agrees to work with a mentor, complete eight hours of community service, and maintain at least a C average. High school graduates will start to reap these benefits in fall 2015.

high school grads without a college degree faced an unemployment rate of 7.5 percent, more than 2 percentage points higher than their associate-degree holding peers; their annual income was lower by more than $6,500.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/2...nessee-in-2015

What a weird red state! TN govt actually trying to help its citizens, rather rather than screwing them.