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People forget how terrible Manu really is and this is in an era where defenders can't touch anyone and spacing is widespread prevalent.
I don't see the 2011 Mavs losing to last year's Spurs. Last year's Mavs took those Spurs to the limit and they weren't nearly as good as the 2011 Mavs.
People forget how terrible Manu really is and this is in an era where defenders can't touch anyone and spacing is widespread prevalent.
Obviously, the Spurs were a different team in the first round. A choking one. Thanks to them Texan bro's for wakin the monster up tbh.
That Mavs team would be a bad matchup especially with Chandler in the paint and the array of 3-point shooters around Dirk. Carlisle's a of a coach as well. Great ing team.
Not really. I think you guys have been watching the NBA under these pussified rules for too longIntimidation goes a long way but the NBA took that psychological aspect out of the game. Being a Spurs fan you should know this first hand. I still remember the '04 playoffs Tony Parker was having his way against the Lakers in the first two games. Lakers couldn't do with him. He was Speedy Gonzales and making Payton look every one of his 50 years. After Game 2 LA said that and started putting Parker on his ass and roughing him up when he came down the lane. He got intimidated and his game was never the same. And the very next year is when they started ushering in the rules to protect perimeter players and started taking the physical aspect out of the game. The point guards and swingmen flourished under this new freedom. They even took advantage of it and started flopping all over the place to get calls.
I love Leonard and Green's defense and I think they would be your only hope but I don't think they would be enough. Guarding slow-footed Lebron and washed up Wade is not the same as guarding Jordan and Pippen in their physical primes. Once either Jordan or Pippen got past them what's stopping them? There's no rim protector like Zo, Shaq, Mutombo, or Ewing waiting in the paint. It's Duncan, Splitter and Diaw
We were discussing dudes like MJ, Pippen, Green, Leonard... so ya intimidation argument is weak sauce... Also your take on Duncan and Splitter is laughable... Duncan has been a beast during the 2014 POs he put a PER at 21 which is higher than Scottie in 92... for the record Split PER is at 19 and Split was arguably best defensive big of the league. Stop acting like this front courst in weak sauce on the D end...
Spurs just not defeated Heat perimeter they destroyed it... They also defended with a lot of success Durant and Westbrook. Serie against OKC has been complicated because of Ibaka not because Westbrook was dunking once in a while... and yes Westbrook took a lot of jumpers against the Spurs... What do you think ? MJ will go all the way walking on Leonard/Green and then walking on D help to dunk at will ?How would Pop force them to shoot jumpers exactly? He applied that crap defense against Lebron because he could get away with it since Lebron had a weak first step, no offensive creativity to his game and was scared to shoot
In fact Spurs 2014 would match up great against Bulls, 2014 Spurs struggled a bit against rim protector and/or bigs shooting from the perimeter... specificity that Bulls did not have.
I think Shaq / Hakeem teams will give them more trouble tbh
But Jordan had a much better mid range game than Westbrick. Jordan faced much more physical defenses against the Pistons, Knicks, etc. He was powerful in his upper body and could elevate on his jumpshoot.
No doubt. One of the greatest runs of all time tbh. But I'll take 2014 Spurs over '11 Mavs.
not doubt Jordan is a much better player than Westbrick... dude would not chuck 20 shots a night at .35 but in terms of being powerful difficult to be stronger and more explosive than Westchimp at guard position...
Durant, in the other hand, is a more talented scorer than Pippen.
Don't get me wrong Spurs would not stop Pippen and MJ... no way but after these two who is gonna score ? in 92 they could count on Grant but Tim and Split would do a great job on him, the PG position is a black hole... Hiding TP would be the easiest of Pop's career. In 96 they had Kerr and Kukoc but I don't see them delivering big points on a consistent basis on a 7 games serie.
I agree 2011 mavs would give more problem to 2014 Spurs than any Bulls team imho but still I'd take 2014 Spurs and I'm a huge fan of 2011 Mavs... impressive run against tough compe ion. God Dirk in the 4th was just beautiful to watch
Remember when ESPN had that show in the late 80s and early 90s called NFL Dream Season where they would match previous Super Bowl winners against each other using computer simulations? They should do that with the NBA. I would love to see how the 2014 Spurs and 2011 Mavs matchup plus comparing teams from other eras.
The good thing about 2011 Mavs and 2014 Spurs is that there is no preparation improvement, rules change etc... to polute the debate... this is pretty much straight up.
Not sure how these simulations work but should be interesting... I guess you can also simulate that in nba 2K ?
LOL this thread ...
I would agree with those that favor later Bulls even though Rodman gets overrated on here.
Younger MJ was in his prime in the first 3peat but Pippen being in his prime the 2nd go round is a bigger factor. MJ was still the GOAT but Pippen was a top 10 player that pushed that team over the top plus Kukoc was filthy leading the bench ...
I love how Harlem uses stats from this era and plugs them in to another era ...and poof Spurs were the better defensive team over the Bulls ...smh. I do think the Bulls are slightly overrated due to 90's nostalgia The 90's did suffer a bit from the some of the 80's stars fading ...but there was still better bigs than we have today and some great players that MJ beat.
This place gets crazy over recent champs. People were on the Mavs nuts after 2011. Playing the best passing and shooting ball for a month like the 2014 Spurs doesnt make them better than the Bulls just stop it. Only thing GOAT about the Spurs was the passing and 3 point shooting.
Klay was amazing the other night did something no one else has ever done. Doesnt make him a better scorer than MJ.
Loved that show that was great stuff ...
ALL NBA 1st team is a joke. rodman was not playing that level of defense every night and neither was MJ ...both were good. But as we have seen with Kobe guys make 1st team with sometimesy defense all the time. Not saying Bulls arent the GOAT team just saying that using media awards as a factor in your argument uis unwise.
Look I hate Lurch and actually admire Timmy. but if you watch both play in the post McHale had the better post-game. duncan is remarkably effective and the better two way player (though McHale could play strong D)...it's not close. But from a pure post game perspective, McHale was better on the low block ...Duncan has bunch of unorthodox but very effective moves and counters. But MCHale's drop-step etc you can make videos of ...especially because it does not require Lebron level explosion or being a center against PF's to be effective.Quit mythologizing the 80's as some physical, defensive oriented era. Just because they occasionally took each other's heads off like barbarians doesn't mean physical play was the rule. Rewatch games from the period, and you'll see some of the worst defense imaginable. Hardly any double teams, chaotic team defense, God awful transition defense. Why do you think there were so many 28ppg+ scorers on 50% plus shooting during that time?
McHale "beasted" on those same bigs, and Duncan's is a far superior version to McHale. But yeah, Duncan would struggle against the "amazing" bigs of the 80's where McHale didn't
Furthermore, I've already debunked your claim that Duncan "made a living" out of matching up against smaller players. He was always guarded by the opposing team's best interior post-defender, often facing double and triple teams. You should remember when they tried to put a prime Shaq on him and he torched him.
Where this idea of the hot shooting month is coming from tbh ? Spurs did in POs what they were doing during RS... They shot .486 during RS, .49 during POs, they shot .4 from 3s during RS and .41 during POs
There is absolutely nothing flukish about 2014 POs run in terms of shooting compared to RS and btw 2014 stat are pretty comparable in terms of % since season 10-11 for 3s and FG%...
total non sense to summarize this team with the silly they were shooting out of their mind BS
Oh they were really good all season no doubt. and then the Mavs pushed them to 7. And then they got extremely hot it seems whenever they needed a big 3 they got it. and the 3's were coming from beautiful ball movement. My point is no one was saying the Spurs were the GOAT team in the 2014 regular season ...in fact the Spurs team that OKC backdoor swept was the only Spur team to get that kind of hype ... until AFTER the 2014 destroyed Lebron and crew.
That Bulls team was hyped pre-season, delivered on the hype and then won the le. I expect the Spurs to be overrated on a Spurs board ditto Bulls on their turf but I just dont see how the 2014 Spurs can be compared to those Bulls by someone with no rooting interest.
Brazil, you did not see a change after game 6 vs. the Mavs?
Not sure who posted it but as someone said it was like the Mavs awakened a sleeping giant ...
Also I didnt say it was flukish. Spurs are better than every team imho post Shaqobe tbh ...including the 2008 Celts, 2011 Mavs and repeat KoPau Lakers and Lewade Heat ...
But pitting them against MJ's bulls, Shaqobe Lakers, Bird's Celts, Isiah's Pistons and MAgic's Lakers are a different beast ...
Greatest teams no particular order:
1. MJ Bulls (72 win version due to better offense better perimeter defense)
2. 1987 Lakers Kareem was still very effective Magic had one of his best years and Worthy and Scott were near their prime
3. 1986 Celts (such a great passing team MCHale was healthy Bird filthy and a throwback Walton season)
4. Shaqobe Lakers 2001 (Kobe was better than 2000 and once Shaq got in shape no one could stop him)
5. 2014 Spurs? IDK seems high 83 Sixers, Bad Pistons, 2008 Celts all have cases ...
I will revisit after some more time has passed but cant see 2014 spurs higher than 5th.
This team was also at 28 sec to win a le the year before... the fact they were not considered the huge favorite was linked to the age factor and the difficulty to recover from that big chocke job. But 12-13 was also a great team.
Also the fact that nobody considered them as goat just add to their merit. 3s and ball movement is nothing flukish.
Finally where this concept of extremely hot is coming from ? they played a sloppy serie against the mavs that's a fact, post mavs they stepped up but did nothing that different from RS or 12-13 season...
here the idea is to debate if Spurs 2014 would beat Bulls team not entering in the merit of each team... Bulls is a good match up for this spurs team. Shaq / Kareem / Hakeem teams would give more trouble to the Spurs than the Bulls imho
See this Brazil is where watching the game matters for better or worse. Stats can point to a big 3 (last two mins etc.) but when you watch them you see the ones that arent always clutch but the ones that stop a 6-0 run. The reason people are comparing to 2011 Mavs is because that team also had great ball movement and hit timely 3's pretty much every game after some early struggles in the first round. No shame in Spurs being tested by one of the best coaches in the NBA just saying it was not doing anything GOAT worthy either until after that. the thing we have to do if you look at the last few le teams all got hot from 3 as they progressed even the Heat that blew out OKC got hot and of course Ray hit the biggest 3 in NBA history the next year.
Your team was great really great tbh but GOAT just dont see it ... but it doesnt matter to me if you do ... you are fan banging for your squad, I get it.
I get that I just dont see that either. I think a really good series but I say bulls in 6 or 7 ...
Your team might see the 10 part though.
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