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He led the lakers in usage rates in a few championship runs as well. What do you think of that?
He certainly led them to early playoff exits and the lottery when he was first in usage rate.
He led the lakers in usage rates in a few championship runs as well. What do you think of that?
The PG's can't lead a team to a ring theory is largely based on the fact that PG's are generally physically inferior...The easiest to neutralize defensively via a wing defender....So magic and a point forward lebron shouldn't even be in this conversation...
So Magic is not a point guard?
I like Teague. Says more about the beast Davis is then anything Teague did wrong ..
ing gooks
Magic wasn't 6'0, understand? It all comes down to size. Pack the paint, stick a long defender on your PG, it's the same formula teams have been using to stop them for years.
The fact that you have to go back to the 80's should tell you something.
The only recent PG's that were Finals MVP's were Parker/Billups.
Parker's was against one of the worst Finals teams of all times, with his offense created primarily off of Duncan pick and rolls, purely a system player. If you don't believe me watch the highlights, Duncan was involved in about 90% of Parker's scoring plays. While Gibson was a 2 year player, inexperienced, the Cavs as a whole were terrible. Even with his offensive performance he still didn't out play Duncan lmao.
Before that you have to go back to '04, LA was clearly the superior team, problem was Kobe chucking them out. His selfish play neutralized the entire offense, pretty much gave the Pistons the championship.
Look at what happened in order for 2 PG's to win the le, the odds are slim to none.
That's not the original premise of this thread, understand?
Go read the OP and the le.
Oh, and Isiah Thomas was 6'1", so he was an inch too tall for your suddenly new found criteria. It's just moving goal posts until something sticks.
No it doesn't.
The only recent PF Finals MVP was Tim Duncan and Dirk
Center? Shaq
SG? Kobe and Wade
SF? Pierce, Lebron and Kawhi
In the last 2 decades, we have the following FMVPs:
Jordan
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Billups
Parker
Pierce
Kobe
Lebron
Kawhi
10 different individuals, 5 positions, so it should average to about 2 a position. And we have *drum roll* TWO point guards! OMG PG suc
Thanks for the history lesson, I mean, this is such phenomenal insight that nobody ever talked about this before. But then again, you randomly came up with the FMVP argument, which blew up in your face before it even started.
And yet it happened twice, and they represent 20% of all the FMVPs of the last 23 years! Go back a little further?
Dumars, who was an imposing 6'3"
Isiah Thomas, who was 6'1"
Worthy, a PF
Magic, who was a PG
I mean, why the magical cut off point at 1991? Oh, right, it doesn't support this amazing insight that short guys can't dominate a tall man sport and those guys have to be treated as aberrations.
Look, there's only one center in the freaking FMVP list since Hakeem won it in 95! And look at the compe ion man. Shaq went through some soft Dutch dude in the first, an ancient Mutombo in 01, and Kenyn Martin in 02! Look at how bad the compe ion is! Look at what happened in order for 1 C to win the le, the odds are slim to none.
I can play this game both ways.
Go ahead and play stupid you want, you chose a once in a generation player, that's 6'8 with a unique skill set, in order to prove your point. Then you chose guys from 24 years ago lmao. Everyone in here knows it has more to do with size than anything.That's not the original premise of this thread, understand?
Go read the OP and the le.
Oh, and Isiah Thomas was 6'1", so he was an inch too tall for your suddenly new found criteria. It's just moving goal posts until something sticks.
The only recent PF Finals MVP was Tim Duncan and Dirk
Center? Shaq
SG? Kobe and Wade
SF? Pierce, Lebron and Kawhi
In the last 2 decades, we have the following FMVPs:
Jordan
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Billups
Parker
Pierce
Kobe
Lebron
Kawhi
10 different individuals, 5 positions, so it should average to about 2 a position. And we have *drum roll* TWO point guards! OMG PG suc
Thanks for the history lesson, I mean, this is such phenomenal insight that nobody ever talked about this before. But then again, you randomly came up with the FMVP argument, which blew up in your face before it even started.
And yet it happened twice, and they represent 20% of all the FMVPs of the last 23 years! Go back a little further?
Dumars, who was an imposing 6'3"
Isiah Thomas, who was 6'1"
Worthy, a PF
Magic, who was a PG
I mean, why the magical cut off point at 1991? Oh, right, it doesn't support this amazing insight that short guys can't dominate a tall man sport and those guys have to be treated as aberrations.
Look, there's only one center in the freaking FMVP list since Hakeem won it in 95! And look at the compe ion man. Shaq went through some soft Dutch dude in the first, an ancient Mutombo in 01, and Keny
I can play this game both ways.
Uh you do realize the game evolves right? It is not the same as it was 20 or even 10 years ago lmao. Positions evolve as well, we have new technology that has also affected player development physically which in turn affects the way the game is played. There were also new rule changes which affected the game and advantages/disadvantages players have. C's in general have lost their effectiveness since the 90's, why? The game is evolving, and it is now being taken over by Forwards like Leonard/Lebron.
Parker wasn't truly the '07 Finals MVP lol, Billups was the result of a player putting up some of the worst finals stats in the history of the NBA.
Then you look at Wade, who had how many FT's that series? The amount of defensive attention Shaq drew was huge as well. Bring up Shaq's compe ion all you want, he played against double/triple teams and still dominated and made his entire team better the same way Duncan, Dirk, etc. did.
Wade is an SG...
Curry will be fmvp this year.
If I didn't know any better, I thought you were playing stupid, BECAUSE THE LE AND THE OP SPECIFICALLY SAID POINT GUARD AND NOT 6'0" TALL PLAYERS.
Do you not get it? Read it, now read it again, and read it again, and read it again, and again, and again, and again. IT SAID PG, do you not get it. PG. Not short players.
PG means PG, it doesn't mean a short player. Those are two different things.
Iverson is 6'0", but he's not a PG. Magic is 6'9", but he was a PG.
And why does choosing a guy from 24 ago dismiss anything? Was Isiah Thomas not a PG?
Is Billups not a PG?
OMG! I didn't know that. I thought the game is played the same way it was played when James Naismith invented the game! I swear they are still using peach baskets and climb ladders to retrieve the balls after a made basket. Of course I know the game evolved you idiot, of course I know the rules changed. But this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic here, other than the fact that rule changes benefit perimeter players, and PGs are perimeter players!
Oh, and now Wade has to be dismissed because he shot FTs.
Lebron, as a small forward, could only have won because Allen and Miller threw in some miraculous shots for the Heat to win, or else they wouldn't have won, and Lebron would not be given the FMVP.
Kawhi didn't put up some of the worst finals stats for a FMVP ever? Really? Oh crap, he's a small forward, there goes your theory.
And Pierce won FMVP but Garnett, a PF, enabled it, and is really a co-lead.
It's a two way game, you try to dismiss the accomplishments of certain players by making it sound like it's some kind of unusual cir stances, I am here to tell you you are full of .
Wade is 6'4 and has a 6'11 wingspan
Tell that to your ally KL2, I don't even know why he would suddenly start talking about Wade, possibly because a PG is now upgraded to someone 6'4" or shorter.
And it's amusing wingspan is now coming into conversation.
Let's put it out in the open, shall we.
When these highly intelligent individuals who proposed this radical theory that short people will have less success dominating a big man's game, they created a new definition for point guard. Point guard no longer means a player who plays point guards, it actually means players who are 6'4" or shorter, with a wingspan 6'6" or shorter, wear Nike shoes, has an angular jaw, cannot bench press over 250lbs, and has a bald head. Any other descriptions and specs you guys want to put in?
How about some new amazing insights?
I got one:
- people who weights 200lb can never be great jockeys
- People who are 150 lbs of lighter are unlikely to be dominant sumo wrestlers
- I can't see a man winning an MVP in the WNBA
What else is there?
The PG position has always been dominated by 5'10-6'2 guys, if they aren't that size they're generally a converted SG (Wade, Manu) or forward playing PG, it is then logical to assume the OP is talking about the majority and not the very few rare individuals with unique size that have played the PG position.If I didn't know any better, I thought you were playing stupid, BECAUSE THE LE AND THE OP SPECIFICALLY SAID POINT GUARD AND NOT 6'0" TALL PLAYERS.
Do you not get it? Read it, now read it again, and read it again, and read it again, and again, and again, and again. IT SAID PG, do you not get it. PG. Not short players.
PG means PG, it doesn't mean a short player. Those are two different things.
Iverson is 6'0", but he's not a PG. Magic is 6'9", but he was a PG.
And why does choosing a guy from 24 ago dismiss anything? Was Isiah Thomas not a PG?
Is Billups not a PG?
The PG position didn't evolve until very recently, it's only now that you're starting to see more point forwards and 6'4 200+lb guys playing the PG position. Every other position evolved pretty dramatically. Would you like examples?OMG! I didn't know that. I thought the game is played the same way it was played when James Naismith invented the game! I swear they are still using peach baskets and climb ladders to retrieve the balls after a made basket. Of course I know the game evolved you idiot, of course I know the rules changed. But this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic here, other than the fact that rule changes benefit perimeter players, and PGs are perimeter players!
The PF position is now being dominated by hyper athletic 6'9 guys. Guys like Thomas were able to expose slow big men which were a dime a dozen back then, no longer now, PF's are now able to move much faster laterally, they can jump higher which affects the availability of shots for a PG as well. They can check a PG on the perimeter or in the pick and roll much better than they used to. They can set harder screens as well since they're much bigger, they can run the floor better which also affects transition play.
The same goes for the SF/SG position. Guys are much bigger/stronger/athletic. Guys like Green/Leonard are shot blocking threats which adds a whole new dimension to the game, practically everybody is because they jump so high. Since they're stronger this heavily affects a PG's ability to get off his shot because PG's rely on separation via body contact. Guys like Thomas went up against sticks, 190lb SF's like Adrian Dantley, even Pippen was pretty small, same with Jordan/Rodman, etc. Now you've got guys like Leonard who is near 240lbs playing the SF position. Average weight is around 220-230lbs of muscle for the SF position, that was RARE back then.
Meanwhile no more hand checking has pretty much neutralized most PG's defensively, unless you're super athletic like a Westbrook/Bledsoe.
I don't know why you're bringing up Wade, he was a SG converted to PG, with ridiculous length and size, he was 220+lbs at 6'4, that's huge. He also needed a load of help from the refs too. Garnett/Pierce, doesn't really matter, the point is they were both big.Oh, and now Wade has to be dismissed because he shot FTs.
Lebron, as a small forward, could only have won because Allen and Miller threw in some miraculous shots for the Heat to win, or else they wouldn't have won, and Lebron would not be given the FMVP.
Kawhi didn't put up some of the worst finals stats for a FMVP ever? Really? Oh crap, he's a small forward, there goes your theory.
And Pierce won FMVP but Garnett, a PF, enabled it, and is really a co-lead.
It's a two way game, you try to dismiss the accomplishments of certain players by making it sound like it's some kind of unusual cir stances, I am here to tell you you are full of .
Leonard put up great numbers lmao, he was insanely efficient on offense, or would it have pleased you if he averaged 25ppg on a much lower shooting %? Sometimes less is more. Meanwhile defensively he guarded Lebron 1 on 1 practically the whole series, a guy they were running their entire offense through, trying to get going with all sorts screens and plays. Lebron was pretty much a non factor with Leonard out there, making incredibly difficult shots.
It seems to me like Am is trying to bite his own tail here tbh. So let me sum it up here... PG may refer to 1) one's natural position or 2) a position one plays, either permanently or temporarily. Am insists that if someone plays, or has played PG then he is a PG regardless of his size and strength, and such players (like Magic) could lead their teams to championships.
But I think when you're speaking of PG in general, you're referring more to one's natural positions rather than a position he plays. SG/SFs have evolved into much bigger and stronger shape compared to the 90s and early 00s, while PFs have become smaller yet more athletic, which means PGs nowadays are not just facing the block threats from bigs but also most SGs and SFs as well, and PFs are also hard to beat with your speed because they're almost just as quick.
Hmm .. let see, greatest PG of all time:
Magic - 6'9"
Big O - 6'5"
Isiah - 6'1"
Payton - 6'4"
Kidd - 6'4"
Stockton - 6'1"
Nash - 6'3"
Frazier - 6'4"
West - 6'2"
Cousy - 6'1"
Only 2 of the 10 were 6'2" or under, 4 of the ten were 6'4" and over. So ... no.
Pippen was a point forward, he came in the league in 1987.
Maurice Stokes was a point forward back in the 50s before he was permanently injured (he would have been an all time great.
Bill Walton played the point center position pretty well
There was a glut of tall PG after Magic (Steve Smith and Walt Williams comes to mind)
Larry Bird did that in the 80s
Don Nelson used point forwards all the time (Paul Pressey and Marques Johnson comes to mind)
Jon Johnson did that in the 70s
So the point forward position has actually been around for a while, but I would like you to give me a history lesson of how Point Forwards evolved.
Where is this coming from? I mean, did you hear me talking about PF? Is this why ultra quick PF like Kevin Love and Zach Randolph has been making all star teams and all-nba teams?
Adrian Dantley was 190lbs? Really? Where did you get your stats? Why would weight be good for jumping high?
Pippen was 6'8" 210lbs, and he blocked as many shots as Durant and Lebron.
Jordan holds the record for block shots by a SG followed by Wade, who is 6'4". I am not sure where in the world you got your views, but they are horrible. Blocked shots is more about reach and timing. I think Leonard and Lebron are phenomenal defensive players and their physiques certainly had something to do with it, but to say that good shot blocking is based on weight is about as misguided as it gets. There is no correlation between the two.
One of the best shot blockers in NBA history is Hakeem, who really is about 6'10" (listed at 7'), not particularly big. The other is Manute Bol, who is as thin as a pole. Larry Sanders is 6'11" 235lbs and was a phenomenal shot blocker before he went crazy.
No more handchecking allows PGs to drive into the lane more easily, whether they are guarded by other PG or bigger players. It goes both ways.
Do you have dementia? You brought up Wade. Wade is 6'4" 212 lbs. Did measurement systems changed over the last 30 years. Why are players who are 212lbs now 220+, while players in the 80s that were 210 lbs 190lbs? What happened in the last 30 years?
Garnett at 6'11" (more like 7'0 or even 7'1") 220lbs is huge? And Pippen at 6'8" 210lbs was a stick?
Buddy, let me explain something:
- I post on Spurstalk, I have internet access
- I live in Canada, they do not block out google
- Therefore, I have google
- Therefore, I look things up easily
- I assume you are in the same situation
- Therefore, look up your before you post, please?
Paul Pierce is 6'7" 235lbs, plays small forward for the Celtics
Larry Bird was 6'9" 220lbs, plays small forward for the Celtics
Mark Aguirre was 6'6", 232lbs, plays small forward
I agree players are generally stronger in today's games because of better nutrition and such, but they don't just apply to SF, they also are available to PGs.
You talk numbers, I give you numbers.
Kawhi was 5th worst in ppg for all FMVP, 14th worst in total rebounds, dead last in assists, right in the middle in steals (21st, not tracked for five of those FMVP), 15th in blocks (the ones above him are all centers, with the exception of Kobe), first in FG%, 5th in 3p% (actually more like 3rd because the first two were Hakeem in 94 and 95, who only made like 1 3 pter), 26th in FT% out of 46 FMVP. He is in the 50th percentile or below in everything except blocks, FG% and 3p%. Did he have a huge impact on Lebron? Sure, but which FMVP didn't have a huge impact? That's why they are FMVPs.
Last edited by ambchang; 02-06-2015 at 10:00 AM.
Lebron's natural position is clearly PG, but yet he's a SF because he is listed as one.
Magic's natural position is clearly PG, and he is listed as PG, but he's not because he is tall.
You guys have no standards in what a PG is, and just likes to randomly come up with definitions to fit the "insightful" comment that small guys can't dominate a big men's game that was incorrectly stated as PG can't lead teams to championships in the 2010s because of rule changes and the evolution of more athletic players.
And you state that despite the fact that a guy like Tony Parker, Dwyane Wade, Allen Iverson, and Westbrook would finish tops in the points in the game category. Sure some of them are ultra athletic, and some of them are SG, but this has been the same since the dawn of time, and it dismisses both the notion of PG can't lead a team to championships, or short guys get blocked a lot more than before.
you can say that for multiple people on any team that has ever won.
You chose a handful of guys from throughout the decades lmao, you're reaching. Do I really have to bring up a list of all the NBA PG's 6'2 and under that have played the PG position? I guarantee you they'll heavily outnumber guys 6'4 200+lbs and up.Hmm .. let see, greatest PG of all time:
Magic - 6'9"
Big O - 6'5"
Isiah - 6'1"
Payton - 6'4"
Kidd - 6'4"
Stockton - 6'1"
Nash - 6'3"
Frazier - 6'4"
West - 6'2"
Cousy - 6'1"
Only 2 of the 10 were 6'2" or under, 4 of the ten were 6'4" and over. So ... no.
Of course I know point forwards have always existed lmao. Z-Bo and Love are big and strong as , they're strong and know how to gain optimal position which I'll explain to you later. Funnily they are both terrible defensively because they lack lateral speed, most guys built like them do, even Duncan has struggled heavily guarding the pick and roll for years.Pippen was a point forward, he came in the league in 1987.
Maurice Stokes was a point forward back in the 50s before he was permanently injured (he would have been an all time great.
Bill Walton played the point center position pretty well
There was a glut of tall PG after Magic (Steve Smith and Walt Williams comes to mind)
Larry Bird did that in the 80s
Don Nelson used point forwards all the time (Paul Pressey and Marques Johnson comes to mind)
Jon Johnson did that in the 70s
So the point forward position has actually been around for a while, but I would like you to give me a history lesson of how Point Forwards evolved.
Where is this coming from? I mean, did you hear me talking about PF? Is this why ultra quick PF like Kevin Love and Zach Randolph has been making all star teams and all-nba teams?
Wow, I can tell you do not play basketball or physical sports in general. Where did I say weight helps shot blocking?Adrian Dantley was 190lbs? Really? Where did you get your stats? Why would weight be good for jumping high?
Pippen was 6'8" 210lbs, and he blocked as many shots as Durant and Lebron.
Jordan holds the record for block shots by a SG followed by Wade, who is 6'4". I am not sure where in the world you got your views, but they are horrible. Blocked shots is more about reach and timing. I think Leonard and Lebron are phenomenal defensive players and their physiques certainly had something to do with it, but to say that good shot blocking is based on weight is about as misguided as it gets. There is no correlation between the two.
One of the best shot blockers in NBA history is Hakeem, who really is about 6'10" (listed at 7'), not particularly big. The other is Manute Bol, who is as thin as a pole. Larry Sanders is 6'11" 235lbs and was a phenomenal shot blocker before he went crazy.
No more handchecking allows PGs to drive into the lane more easily, whether they are guarded by other PG or bigger players. It goes both ways.
Do you have dementia? You brought up Wade. Wade is 6'4" 212 lbs. Did measurement systems changed over the last 30 years. Why are players who are 212lbs now 220+, while players in the 80s that were 210 lbs 190lbs? What happened in the last 30 years?
Garnett at 6'11" (more like 7'0 or even 7'1") 220lbs is huge? And Pippen at 6'8" 210lbs was a stick?
Being more athletic helps shot blocking, being able to jump higher has made every single position able to swat shots unlike the old NBA. Having a shot blocking SG like Green over your shoulder forces you to change the angle of your shots even if they are not jumping because their mere presence. Being able to move faster laterally also adds yet another shot blocking threat for big men because they are much more mobile around the rim and out on the perimeter. Less high % shots for PG's and that is why you always see them choke.
Weight gain, holy you are clueless. Weight gain has to do with creating separation, getting enough space to get your shot off, is everything in the NBA! Why do you think Leonard/Love/Lebron etc. are so dominant? They're big as . They bump off their defender with ease, they get to the basket, prime position in the post/paint for rebounds and easy shots. When you're able to bump your defender off you neutralize their shot blocking ability, create space and score easy points. Parker uses his speed to create separation, others use dribbling on the perimeter, but the most efficient by far is using your body because it is so hard to stop. It's also why Leonard was able to stop Lebron, he was near 240lbs, the 2nd biggest SF in the league outside of Lebron. Many of Lebron's drives were neutralized because he couldn't create enough separation, Leonard was too strong.
If you've ever played basketball you'd know what it feels like to play with a guy that is just physically superior to everyone on the court, they get great position in the post, easy rebounds/points because of their size, bump you off on drives to the basket for easy layups, draw all sorts of defensive attention, etc. Sometimes they are just too big to guard.
Bigger SG's/SF's also affect a PG's ability to get off their shots, because as I said earlier, more weight=more stability, less likely to get knocked off balance, allowing you to challenge the PG's shot. Thomas would get destroyed throwing his body into these monsters. Leonard would probably be near unstoppable back then, very few guys with his size to guard him. This also affects a PG's defense
Dantley was 190 as a rook, 207 at the end of his career, Pippen 200 as a rook, 220 at the end of his career, took both guys years to develop. But it's not like it matters because their compe ion wasn't today's, understand? Things that worked in the 90s, no longer work today. Guys with Jordan/Pippen's athleticism/size were rare, these days they're a dime a dozen. Btw, Wade was 220+, 212 as a rook, he was a ball of muscle with unique size/length, unlike players of the past. Able to create bodily separation because he was 220+, you starting to understand?
There were a lot of great big men in the 90's but a lot of terrible slow players as well, guys that'd get killed in today's NBA. Imagine Duncan guarding the pick and roll, that's what most teams bigs used to look like on the perimeter, horrible and slow, easy for PG's to expose. That's why you're getting more streamlined versions, super athletic forwards. Making things harder for PG's.
Aguirre is an example of a guy just being too big, you don't even have to be good, if you can create enough separation you can get easy shot after shot. He was one of the few with elite size back then and bowled through everyone, that wouldn't happen in today's NBA though, because there are tons of guys like him.Buddy, let me explain something:
- I post on Spurstalk, I have internet access
- I live in Canada, they do not block out google
- Therefore, I have google
- Therefore, I look things up easily
- I assume you are in the same situation
- Therefore, look up your before you post, please?
Paul Pierce is 6'7" 235lbs, plays small forward for the Celtics
Larry Bird was 6'9" 220lbs, plays small forward for the Celtics
Mark Aguirre was 6'6", 232lbs, plays small forward
I agree players are generally stronger in today's games because of better nutrition and such, but they don't just apply to SF, they also are available to PGs.
You talk numbers, I give you numbers.
Kawhi was 5th worst in ppg for all FMVP, 14th worst in total rebounds, dead last in assists, right in the middle in steals (21st, not tracked for five of those FMVP), 15th in blocks (the ones above him are all centers, with the exception of Kobe), first in FG%, 5th in 3p% (actually more like 3rd because the first two were Hakeem in 94 and 95, who only made like 1 3 pter), 26th in FT% out of 46 FMVP. He is in the 50th percentile or below in everything except blocks, FG% and 3p%. Did he have a huge impact on Lebron? Sure, but which FMVP didn't have a huge impact? That's why they are FMVPs.
Just how many of those Finals MVP's played against an ATG of quality like Lebron 1v1? People glorify the out of scoring but defense is what wins championships, Leonard did it against Lebron. The Spurs didn't have to break their defense to guard him. Anything from Leonard offensively was a bonus and that sort of production in combination with his defense made his performance incredibly difficult and impressive than many FMVP's. His offense was rock solid, missed shots means you're giving the opponent more opportunities to score, I'd take efficiency all day.
Do you know how to use the scroll button? Scroll back to what you wrote. Read it.
Do you know what always means? Do you know what dominated means?
It comes down to a real issue with you guys having zero ability to write what you mean to write, or to change the goal post when you see fit to weasel out of a stance. I don't know which one it is, but both makes you look like a re .
WTF (with regards to the bolded part? I responded with a huge list of point forward, and your response is that you knew they have always existed? It’s not about them existed, it’s about refuting your claim that it’s only recently you see more of them.
And they didn’t have strong PF in the past? Like Buck Williams, Terry mings and the like? You are arguing out of your ass. One minute you say PF are ultra quick and can block shots like crazy is the reason they are better, the next one you are talking about Z-Bo and K-Love being big and strong so they can help gain position. Which one is it? Are the current players today better because they are bigger and stronger (untrue), or longer and quicker, or both? If so, start talking about all the big and strong players in today’s game.
Here:
And how can you tell I don’t play basketball? Because I said Adrian Dantley wasn’t 190lbs? I can tell you can’t read though.
Is it why leaders in blocks in the 80s and 90s averages around 4 or so blocks a game, while nobody averaged more than 4 blocks a game since Mutombo did in 96? Is it why teams in 2014 averaged 386blks for the year, while teams in 1994 averaged 429 and teams in 1984 averaged 435?
I am clueless when we are talking about blocking shots and you suddenly are talking about creating shots? You got the two arguments mixed up.
Does it explain why Parker was top 10 in points in paint for a few years? Allen Iverson?
And no, Lebron wasn’t neutralized, he averaged 28.2 ppg on 57% shooting, 51.9% from 3, with 8 rebounds, 4 assists and 2 steals a game. He had a true shooting % of 67.9%. He had an offensive rating of 120. His problem is that Kawhi was quick enough to play him one on one, and the Spurs can stay home to the other Heat players. His problem is, despite his huge size and quickness, couldn’t defend the Spurs passing. Fire up the tape, and stop regurgitating what the report says. Lebron played well in the series, he was clearly the best player on the court, the Spurs were just the better team.
If you ever played basketball you’d know what it feels like to play against a quick guy who is just physically superior to everyone on the court, they slash through the lane and score easy baskets, whip the ball around the court and create opportunities for their teammates, pick off the ball on defense and cover the passing lanes, etc … Sometimes they are just too quick to guard.
WOULD YOU MAKE UP YOUR GODDAMN MIND? Do they block shots while they challenge the shot? Or are current players only good at challenging the shot? Is it because they are bigger stronger and/or quicker? Which combination is it? Write it out and REMEMBER YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS, PLEASE!
You are explaining spot on why Stromile Swift, Benoit Benjamin and Joe Barry Carroll were so dominant back in the day. Total top 10 players of all time status because they were so big and strong.
Your stats are full of . Quote them.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...dantlad01.html
http://www.nba.com/history/players/dantley_bio.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...pippesc01.html
http://www.nba.com/history/players/pippen_bio.html
Ever heard of Harold Minor? 6’5” 210lb SG who could jump out of the gym? Successful career eh?
Yes, only big men got quicker, the same training and nutrition never trickled to PGs. That genetic mutation of those really big and strong people in the last 20 years was surely something, eh? But they ONLY apply to people 6’4” and taller, and left people 6’3” and shorter out.
Based on what? We just talked about Z-BO, same with Al Jefferson. And implying Aguirre wasn’t that skillful is just idiotic. Have you ever even seen the guy play? The man’s got a sweet mid range jump shot, a great step back jumper from the post, up and under moves, spins, hooks, just great low post game.
This conversation is getting bizarre as it is getting more and more apparent that you have just never seen basketball in the early days.
One? Because Lebron lost in three finals ever, and Tony Parker and Dirk won the other two and they don’t play Lebron’s position?
As for all time greats, they play in finals every year, and sometimes they lose, so year, that happens all the time.
Speaking of which, Bowen did a great job on Lebron in 2007, but he wasn’t huge and strong, he was 6’7” and 185lbs (getting ready to say that Bowen was actually 254 lbs when he was playing lebron). He was quick and got great technique, not to mention the Spurs had a great team defense around Lebron. So flush goes your theory.
Last edited by ambchang; 02-06-2015 at 10:06 AM.
you're a damn idiot
PGs are usually 20% of the players on the court at any given time and receive attention because of that.
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