Bulls: A fair criticism of MJ and his Bulls

[Thebesteva]

This is one department I feel he lacks in his resume, he faced some solid two dimensional teams in the post season\finals like the Jazz, Sonics, Pacers, Suns, Blazers, Lakers etc. He never faced a 3 dimensional team in the finals like the Spurs of last year, Lakers of the Phil era, Pistons of 04, Celtics of 08, etc.

The Lakers were a tired old bag team when they faced the Bulls, the Blazers had a few role players around Clyde 'the Penny Hardway of his era' Drexler, the Suns relied on Charles Barkley who is a known dumb on and off the court and had the leadership qualities of Chris Webber, Sonics were solid but not close to a 3D team especially with Kemp busy making babies, the Jazz relied too heavily on Stockton and Malone and the role players didnt show up when it mattered.

I mean this was a team that got pushed to the brink by Reggie Miller single handily. I think MJ is the GOAT, but I give those Bulls a 50-50 chance at best if the officiating was fair to beat the Spurs of last year or the Lakers of 2001. Who the were they going to put on a prime Shaq? How could they even minimize TD? Who could stop the pure power of Derek Fisher when he penetrates into the paint for a dunk?

[Infinite_limit]

1993 Suns were essentially 2014 Spurs
Jazz were solid
1996 Sonics could have been Lakers: Post, Guard and role players

This stuff is silly considering Shaq defeated lesser Pacers, Iverson and then Nets.

After defeating Isiah's Piston's, Pip & MJ would have destroyed Billup's version.



Given the rules, couldn't the Bulls just hack-a-shaq? Bulls had 3-7 footers. Who is getting the ball into Shaq? Kobe, Fisher & Fox are shut down by the greatest defensive team of all time

Harper > Fisher
Jordan > Kobe
Pippen > Fox
Rodman > Grant
Longley < Shaq
Kukoc > Horry
Kerr > ?

It's a mismatch. Basically hoping Rap listening Shaq is mentally strong enough to go Wilt on the 1996 Bulls.......which he could 1 or even 2 times in a 7-game series but the rest he would be frustrated. Kobe would be forced into poor shots.



Rant: Ultimately the 96 Bulls were Pippen and Jordan at their mental/psychological height. They fought the battles of the 80's & early 90's. They understood they were reliant on each other. It's the story of the 'past' NBA. When greats marched the NBA mountain....and failed. But kept marching and eventually got their 1 or 2 les.

History illustrates Kobe/Shaq were not mature enough in 2000-2003. It was their athletic skill. If you took the wisest Kobe and wisest Shaq then it would be an epic matchup that we all hope.

[davethedope]

Clyde 'the Penny Hardway of his era' Drexler

[Clipper Nation]

It's true, cago beat up on a bunch of pretenders in a weak era. They seriously wouldn't stand a chance against last year's Spurs.

[Thebesteva]

1993 Suns were essentially 2014 Spurs
Jazz were solid
1996 Sonics could have been Lakers: Post, Guard and role players

This stuff is silly considering Shaq defeated lesser Pacers, Iverson and then Nets.

After defeating Isiah's Piston's, Pip & MJ would have destroyed Billup's version.



Given the rules, couldn't the Bulls just hack-a-shaq? Bulls had 3-7 footers. Who is getting the ball into Shaq? Kobe, Fisher & Fox are shut down by the greatest defensive team of all time

Harper > Fisher
Jordan > Kobe
Pippen > Fox
Rodman > Grant
Longley < Shaq
Kukoc > Horry
Kerr > ?

It's a mismatch. Basically hoping Rap listening Shaq is mentally strong enough to go Wilt on the 1996 Bulls.......which he could 1 or even 2 times in a 7-game series but the rest he would be frustrated. Kobe would be forced into poor shots.



Rant: Ultimately the 96 Bulls were Pippen and Jordan at their mental/psychological height. They fought the battles of the 80's & early 90's. They understood they were reliant on each other. It's the story of the 'past' NBA. When greats marched the NBA mountain....and failed. But kept marching and eventually got their 1 or 2 les.

History illustrates Kobe/Shaq were not mature enough in 2000-2003. It was their athletic skill. If you took the wisest Kobe and wisest Shaq then it would be an epic matchup that we all hope.

You just referred to a prime Bulls v a prime Lakers team as a mismatch? I can easily see the Bulls winning the series, but I could just as easily see them losing. The problem with this particular fantasy match up is that it involves the same head coach and system.

You also referred to the Suns with Barkley and Kevin Johnson as the equivalent of last years Spurs team?

[scanry]

The 2001 Shaq Lakers would stomp the 90's Bulls tbh.

[hitmanyr2k]

This is one department I feel he lacks in his resume, he faced some solid two dimensional teams in the post season\finals like the Jazz, Sonics, Pacers, Suns, Blazers, Lakers etc. He never faced a 3 dimensional team in the finals like the Spurs of last year, Lakers of the Phil era, Pistons of 04, Celtics of 08, etc.

The Lakers were a tired old bag team when they faced the Bulls, the Blazers had a few role players around Clyde 'the Penny Hardway of his era' Drexler, the Suns relied on Charles Barkley who is a known dumb on and off the court and had the leadership qualities of Chris Webber, Sonics were solid but not close to a 3D team especially with Kemp busy making babies, the Jazz relied too heavily on Stockton and Malone and the role players didnt show up when it mattered.

I mean this was a team that got pushed to the brink by Reggie Miller single handily. I think MJ is the GOAT, but I give those Bulls a 50-50 chance at best if the officiating was fair to beat the Spurs of last year or the Lakers of 2001. Who the were they going to put on a prime Shaq? How could they even minimize TD? Who could stop the pure power of Derek Fisher when he penetrates into the paint for a dunk?

Nice troll post. I laughed. I almost thought you were serious until the last line

[DMC]

More Kobe propping.

[JoeTait75]

IMO the one thing you can hold against those Bulls teams is that once the Bad Boy Pistons went into their decline the East (outside of the Pacers in 1998) offered very little in the way of a real challenger to their dominance. Chicago owned the Cavaliers and Knicks teams of that era. The East even then was weaker than the West top-to-bottom, imo.

[Chillen]

6 NBA les in a decade and there could have been more if Jordan had not retired and they didn't break the team up in 1998. There is nothing to criticise, MJ is GOAT, he elevated his teammates. He never had as much help as LeBron has, ever. Bulls could have kept that team going till 2003 if they wanted to. They could have kept MJ and Pip, Kukoc, etc and build around that core similar to what the Spurs did around Duncan, Parker, Ginobili. I have always felt they broke it up to early and that Jazz shot by MJ was a perfect way to end it but they could have won another NBA le together with a little retooling. Oh well, it is what it is, it was a perfect way to end that dynasty but it was premature, very.

[Killakobe81]

Agree on MJ as GOAT but if he didn't retire no way they win 6, 7 or 8 straight

[hater]

MJ Bulls would have found a way to beat any team from 1998 to present.

prime MJ and Pippen, NOONE at any season in that framework would have beaten them.

[hitmanyr2k]

IMO the one thing you can hold against those Bulls teams is that once the Bad Boy Pistons went into their decline the East (outside of the Pacers in 1998) offered very little in the way of a real challenger to their dominance. Chicago owned the Cavaliers and Knicks teams of that era. The East even then was weaker than the West top-to-bottom, imo.

The Bulls owned the Cavs but not the Knicks lol. The Knicks gave the Bulls a great physical battle and took them to a 7 game series in '92 and had the Bulls down 0-2 in the '93 ECF. After two deep playoff runs and the Olympics the Bulls looked worn down and 3peats were unheard of back then so everyone thought it was NYK's year since they were hungry and had HCA where they were practically unbeatable. Game 5 in MSG was a grueling battle and came down to the very last second with Pippen getting consecutive blocks on Charles Smith to seal it. Then the Bulls sent the Knicks home in Game 6 which was still a close game until the end. It was never an easy series by any means when those two teams got together. After going through tough/physical defensive battles in the East the Finals against the finesse West teams probably felt a lot easier to the Bulls in comparison.

[JoeTait75]

The Bulls owned the Cavs but not the Knicks lol. The Knicks gave the Bulls a great physical battle and took them to a 7 game series in '92 and had the Bulls down 0-2 in the '93 ECF. After two deep playoff runs and the Olympics the Bulls looked worn down and 3peats were unheard of back then so everyone thought it was NYK's year since they were hungry and had HCA where they were practically unbeatable. Game 5 in MSG was a grueling battle and came down to the very last second with Pippen getting consecutive blocks on Charles Smith to seal it. Then the Bulls sent the Knicks home in Game 6 which was still a close game until the end. It was never an easy series by any means when those two teams got together. After going through tough/physical defensive battles in the East the Finals against the finesse West teams probably felt a lot easier to the Bulls in comparison.

The Bulls beat the Knicks by 29 points in Game 7 of the '92 ECSF, backdoor-swept them in the '93 ECF and took them to seven games in the '94 ECSF without Michael Jordan. Not to mention beating the Knicks decisively in the '89, '90 and '96 playoffs. New York never beat Chicago with Jordan. So how are you going to say the Bulls didn't own the Knicks? Of course they did.

[hitmanyr2k]

The Bulls beat the Knicks by 29 points in Game 7 of the '92 ECSF, backdoor-swept them in the '93 ECF and took them to seven games in the '94 ECSF without Michael Jordan. Not to mention beating the Knicks decisively in the '89, '90 and '96 playoffs. New York never beat Chicago with Jordan. So how are you going to say the Bulls didn't own the Knicks? Of course they did.

I don't really count the Bulls non-champhionship years. What's the point? Neither teams were championship caliber then. We didn't own the Knicks in the sense that you're saying though lol. You're making it sound like every series was a cakewalk and never in doubt it would go Chicago's way. These series usually hinged on a play or two that could have swung each series to either team. The Lakers backdoor swept the Spurs in '04 too but that series hinged on Fisher's improbable .04 shot lol. That's not ownage. That's a hard fought battle that came down to the final play in a pivotal swing game. You can say the Lakers owned Sacramento in the early 00's but I wouldn't say so. The Kings played LA tough, especially in '02 when it took a Game 7 overtime to dispatch of the Kings. The Lakers won the series but they didn't "own" that team by any means.

[davethedope]

I don't really count the Bulls non-champhionship years. What's the point? Neither teams were championship caliber then. We didn't own the Knicks in the sense that you're saying though lol. You're making it sound like every series was a cakewalk and never in doubt it would go Chicago's way. These series usually hinged on a play or two that could have swung each series to either team. The Lakers backdoor swept the Spurs in '04 too but that series hinged on Fisher's improbable .04 shot lol. That's not ownage. That's a hard fought battle that came down to the final play in a pivotal swing game. You can say the Lakers owned Sacramento in the early 00's but I wouldn't say so. The Kings played LA tough, especially in '02 when it took a Game 7 overtime to dispatch of the Kings. The Lakers won the series but they didn't "own" that team by any means.

Dude is trying to prop up 90's cavs ad downplay bulls v. knicks classic rivalry

[JoeTait75]

Dude is trying to prop up 90's cavs ad downplay bulls v. knicks classic rivalry

I know the Cavaliers were Chicago's , I lived through it.

I just think it's funny to refer to Bulls-Knicks as a "rivalry" when Jordan beat them every single time he had to. That isn't a rivalry in any way, shape or form.

[lefty]

IMO the one thing you can hold against those Bulls teams is that once the Bad Boy Pistons went into their decline the East (outside of the Pacers in 1998) offered very little in the way of a real challenger to their dominance. Chicago owned the Cavaliers and Knicks teams of that era. The East even then was weaker than the West top-to-bottom, imo.

that and rule changes entering the 1990-1991 season tbh, because Mike and Phil were ing and it paid off

[Infinite_limit]

You just referred to a prime Bulls v a prime Lakers team as a mismatch? I can easily see the Bulls winning the series, but I could just as easily see them losing. The problem with this particular fantasy match up is that it involves the same head coach and system.

You also referred to the Suns with Barkley and Kevin Johnson as the equivalent of last years Spurs team?

What's the difference between Barkley's Suns and 2014 Spurs? The Suns would have the two best players on the court (Charles & K.J)

[LkrFan]

Agree on MJ as GOAT but if he didn't retire no way they win 6, 7 or 8 straight

Who would have stopped them tbh? The only reason PJ coached us was because MJ retired and the Bulls broke up. Shaq/Kobe before PJ was all bark but no bite.

I think they would have had a historic run had MJ not retired.

[davethedope]

I know the Cavaliers were Chicago's , I lived through it.

I just think it's funny to refer to Bulls-Knicks as a "rivalry" when Jordan beat them every single time he had to. That isn't a rivalry in any way, shape or form.

Well listen I know better than anyone the knicks caught some bad breaks in those years, but there's no denying the rivalry. The cities, Chicago v. New York City, the coaches, Riley v. Jackson. Plus three legit hall of famers in Jordan Pippen and Ewing, it was as good as it got.

Hard to imagine these days when the finals may shape up to include the great cities of San Antonio and Cleveland, but there's no comparison in box office.

This is the problem of the NBA, major market cities are in the ter and no one cares.

[lefty]

I dont think MJ would have rang in 94 and 95

You are talking about 8 straight le runs

Former Bulls talked about how competing for 3 le runs took its toll on them

Heck even MJ was burned out before the 1993 Finals started; the only reason the Bulls beat the Suns despite the burn out was because the Suns D was comical



Not to mention that the Rockets were a bad matchup for the Bulls