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  1. #226
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Progressive.

    Classic liberal weighted phrase for taking someone else's money.
    Progressive tax rates are based on the economic concept of marginal income. Very old school concept, even the people that wrote the bible understood it.

  2. #227
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    The whole point of going to the lower rate in '86 was to have a fair across the board rate and eliminate all the shelters and dodges. So you are advocating going back to the higher rate and reinstating all the accounting tricks to avoid them?
    That doesn't really answer my question.

    I don't see how the inheritance tax "killed small family farms". If so, I would like to know about it, to improve the amount of valid information I have to consider the topic.

    I would guess you can't or won't show that, so I will dismiss the assertion then.

    I was though, merely pointing out that the law allowed for the specific exceptions to spare the mythical family farm from the tax. I am for a simple tax code, all other things equal.

    In this case, estate taxes are a very progressive kind of tax on people who can easily afford to pay back into the system that created the wealth to begin with.
    Last edited by RandomGuy; 02-25-2015 at 06:57 PM.

  3. #228
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    It has nothing to do with jealously. I simply think making capital gains a progressive tax, just like earned income, is good policy.

    Since you were unable to refute it with any cogent argument I'll assume you are incapable of doing so.
    The "jealousy" claim merely makes it easier to wrongly dismiss arguments on an emotional basis. My case for progressive income taxes, or estate taxes for that matter, isn't really made on some random emotional basis, but a reasoned consideration of harm and benefits, as well as a consideration of the ethics.

    Claims of jealousy when it comes to countering arguments for progressive taxes tend to fall into the "appeal to emotion" logical fallacy, i.e. the arguments for it are invalid because of some emotional reason.
    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-emotion

  4. #229
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    I struggle with the concept of double taxation. I paid taxes on that income once. Put this additional levy on the front end....tax capital gains as income and raise the tax on the higher income set then leave me the alone with my earnings and what I set aside for my heirs.

  5. #230
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    I struggle with the concept of double taxation. I paid taxes on that income once. Put this additional levy on the front end....tax capital gains as income and raise the tax on the higher income set then leave me the alone with my earnings and what I set aside for my heirs.
    I agree with that, not a fan of the estate tax either.

  6. #231
    Der Willis der Spurs wird siegen! FlAVaK's Avatar
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  7. #232
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    That doesn't really answer my question.

    I don't see how the inheritance tax "killed small family farms". If so, I would like to know about it, to improve the amount of valid information I have to consider the topic.

    I would guess you can't or won't show that, so I will dismiss the assertion then.

    I was though, merely pointing out that the law allowed for the specific exceptions to spare the mythical family farm from the tax. I am for a simple tax code, all other things equal.

    In this case, estate taxes are a very progressive kind of tax on people who can easily afford to pay back into the system that created the wealth to begin with.
    I confess to using the family farm cliche and hyperbole but I did give you real numbers in the original post to demonstrate how the "old" estate tax rates created a tax due on death that virtually guaranteed a sale of the property in order to pay the tax. When you advocate going back to the old rates the common counter is that "we can not include farmland, or houses, or whatever your favorite asset to get preferential tax treatment. That itself is the trap we get into where monied special interests can basically bribe their way to special exemptions and we end up with just a different ed up preferential Swiss cheese tax code.

  8. #233
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Wikileaks roils IMF brokered negotiations with Greece:

    Even if the transcript of the conversation is consistent with the publicly stated views of the IMF it is likely to stoke the kind of su ion in Greece and Germany that has long created political hurdles to progress in the Greek debt crisis.



    Greece, and many international observers sympathetic to its predicament, will see the IMF officials’ remarks as more evidence that the Fund and the European Union have little regard for Greece’s sovereignty.
    The massive spending cuts and tax increases Greece has already implemented in recent years in order to repay its debts have contributed to a massive uptick in poverty and the highest unemployment rate in the European Union.



    Meanwhile, the IMF’s potential threat of withdrawal could exacerbate German su ion of the bailout process. The German public has long been wary of additional lending to Greece, which it believes has failed to reform its profligate government finances or adequately liberalize its economy.



    It is also unclear what implications another potential Greek financial standoff will have on the European refugee crisis, of which Greece has been on the front line. Greece is the first entry point for the thousands of refugees flowing into Europe from Turkey and other countries. Tens of thousands of refugees with hopes of reaching more prosperous European nations have been stranded in Greece as neighboring European nations close their borders.



    The European Union reached a deal with the Turkish government on March 18 to return asylum seekers trying to reach the continent by sea in exchange for additional aid to Turkey. They also agreed to an increase in the number of Turkey-based refugees Europe would resettle through a formal absorption process. The plan goes into effect on Monday.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0a06d5805ddf6

  9. #234
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Sidebar: Greece is an open air prison for war refugees. point of transshipment between Turkey and Europe proper.

    which Turkey is using as leverage -- to join the EU.

  10. #235
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Lagarde implied that the leak had been the result of eavesdropping and suggested the onus was on the Greek government to prevent such an incident in the future.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0daf53aeff293

  11. #236
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    EU extends and pretends to protect banks, Greece becomes a permanent debt peon:

    Technically speaking, the central pillar of the new debt agreement is a decade-long postponement of payments totalling €96.6 billion that were due to begin in 2023. The Greek state has thus been offered easy repayments until 2033 in exchange for continuing harsh austerity ad infinitum; impossible annual debt repayments from 2033 to 2060; and a debt-to-national income ratio above 230% by 2060 if the next global recession puts the plan’s over-ambitious growth targets out of reach, as it surely will.

    Any objective assessment of the Eurogroup’s recent deal on Greek public debt would conclude that it condemns Greece to permanent debt bondage. And an impartial observer of the Merkel-Macron Meseberg Summit would conclude that the eurozone remains as macroeconomically unsustainable as it was five years ago. And yet Europe’s establishment, oblivious to the Nationalist International preparing to devour the EU, is serving it appetizers.
    https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/2DjIse0nDA6j818tVtfTUN/Europes-remarkable-ability-to-remain-in-denial.html

  12. #237
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    I agree with that, not a fan of the estate tax either.
    the estate tax in UNEARNED INCOME for the beneficiaries. Why should it be tax free?

    "death tax" is bull phrasing, fooling the fools

  13. #238
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    "Nationalist International"

    ... Pootin's Long Game.

    Break up international agreements, cooperations, treaties in favor of weaker (autocratic) govts amenable to Pootin's influence, power, support.

    see: Poland, Hungary, Turkey, and Trash's plans for USA

  14. #239
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    EU enslaving Greek to decades of punitive austerity and debt?

    That's nothing but Capital's plan for everybody, everywhere.

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