Tube of cold sore medicine costs $2,500

[ElNono]

You suffer at reading comprehension

That's $400/$2000 for two hours. They run that from 8am to 10pm. That's potentially 7 treatments a day per machine.

I would too for that kind of scratch.

lets say it only runs at 50% capacity for 20 days a month. That's $1,680,000 a year.

Yeah, $2k a session is crazy.

[DMC]

You suffer at reading comprehension

That's $400/$2000 for two hours. They run that from 8am to 10pm. That's potentially 7 treatments a day per machine.

I would too for that kind of scratch.

lets say it only runs at 50% capacity for 20 days a month. That's $1,680,000 a year.

"How much do you think this treatment costs? I figured $400 a day would be fair...pays their labor cost, pays off the cost of the machine in a year or less, rent, auxiliary staff, etc. and still leaves them with a tidy profit..." -CC

You said 400 a day. You didn't say 400 for your 2 hour treatment.

[DMC]

double post

[DMC]

The same way glucose readers revolutionized diabetes treatment in the late 70's. A device with high precision the patient trusts, the science backs up, a brand stands behind it, and that can flag when something is off to go seek the help of a professional.

Maybe we are on different wavelengths here. Are you saying that the average household would have a diagnostics instrument? If so, that's not the same thing as someone who has a known issue having a way to check it regularly. How many people who haven't been diagnosed with the beetus have a glucose checker?

Let's say I buy a glucose checker and determine that mine is high. I cannot go start treatment. I have to get tested again, at least once or twice. The only thing the glucose checker did it let me know to visit a doctor, but then if you have routine exams you'll know that regardless.

I've been an IT professional for 20+ years. You couldn't do what I suggest 5-10 years ago. Technologically, today you could start. But it has to be done by one of the tech behemoths... Google, Apple, not even sure Microsoft qualifies here...

I think maybe a behemoth would front the cash and make the acquisitions of smaller companies that specialize in these things already. I don't think any of the tech giants could start their own medical equipment branch without that (none would try). There would have to be government funding else it's a 20 year project with investors backing out every few cycles.

I think it could sell, provided the right company backs it up and it's priced reasonably.

You're probably referring more to a screening system than a diagnostic system. A screening system would flag likely candidates for certain things. You'd have to have a diagnosis and treatment plan before a monitoring system could be established though. I think those exist already in the home, but it's basically a hospital room setup at home.

I don't think anybody that doesn't want it would need to get it. Frankly, looking at the medical device market right now, and considering the health sensor creep up in wear tech, I think it's inevitable.

I don't think so. I think there will be more ways to test yourself for things, but I don't think there will be an all encompassing device that will diagnose you with enough certainty to avoid paying even more money for 2nd tier. Maybe in the Jetson future, who knows.

Besides, big Pharma wouldn't allow it. They won't want average Joe self diagnosing and minimizing the number of prescriptions he has to encounter before getting the right one. Doctors are in bed with these guys, that's why they prescribe a ton of different like it's all free, and you knew what you needed when you walked in.

[ElNono]

Maybe we are on different wavelengths here. Are you saying that the average household would have a diagnostics instrument? If so, that's not the same thing as someone who has a known issue having a way to check it regularly. How many people who haven't been diagnosed with the beetus have a glucose checker?

Let's say I buy a glucose checker and determine that mine is high. I cannot go start treatment. I have to get tested again, at least once or twice. The only thing the glucose checker did it let me know to visit a doctor, but then if you have routine exams you'll know that regardless.

This would simply be a more generic tool, but there's no reason that it cannot also be used to monitor a known condition. A lot of people diagnosed with diabetes have a controlled glucose level, largely thanks to constant checking through a glucose reader. Before the reader existed, they had no option but to do labs and get a professional to read them, paying for such services.

There's obviously no silver bullet here, no tool can feasibly detect and treat every condition, but having a more affordable tool to detect and track most the common causes of death (blood cloths, cancer, etc) can go a long ways, I think.

I think maybe a behemoth would front the cash and make the acquisitions of smaller companies that specialize in these things already. I don't think any of the tech giants could start their own medical equipment branch without that (none would try). There would have to be government funding else it's a 20 year project with investors backing out every few cycles.

I would agree about acquisitions, that's pretty common. As far as government funding, etc, I'm not so sure. Google is a company known for going all in on it's own in grand scale research projects: The self-driving car, Goggle Glass, the glucose-reading contacts (Novartis joined on this after Google announced). Apple is the same way, just a bit more secretive, and a company that has worked with medical ins utions. Their just announced ReseatchKit is a continuation of that.

Ultimately, I think the current prices make it a market ripe for the taking. If they can put together a solid device, they can make money on them.

You're probably referring more to a screening system than a diagnostic system. A screening system would flag likely candidates for certain things. You'd have to have a diagnosis and treatment plan before a monitoring system could be established though. I think those exist already in the home, but it's basically a hospital room setup at home.

Nah, I'm talking imaging here. Discerning tissues, finding patterns. A lot of the current work on multi-layer, back propagated neural networks that's being used to do face recognition, even at angles, voice recognition and the like. It's a field that was stuck about 5 years ago, and has had a breakthrough lately.

I don't think so. I think there will be more ways to test yourself for things, but I don't think there will be an all encompassing device that will diagnose you with enough certainty to avoid paying even more money for 2nd tier. Maybe in the Jetson future, who knows.

Besides, big Pharma wouldn't allow it. They won't want average Joe self diagnosing and minimizing the number of prescriptions he has to encounter before getting the right one. Doctors are in bed with these guys, that's why they prescribe a ton of different like it's all free, and you knew what you needed when you walked in.

It's entirely possible I'm daydreaming. I would agree there would be pretty big interests pissed about this, but, again, that's why you need the behemoth. The guy that already went and face the music industry, the cell phone companies and told them how it's going to be. Otherwise, I agree it's a non-starter.

[DMC]

This would simply be a more generic tool, but there's no reason that it cannot also be used to monitor a known condition. A lot of people diagnosed with diabetes have a controlled glucose level, largely thanks to constant checking through a glucose reader. Before the reader existed, they had no option but to do labs and get a professional to read them, paying for such services.

After they were diagnosed, when treatment and monitoring has begun. That makes it 100% effective and only used by people diagnosed with the disease. You take a healthy 35 year old, he's not going to use anything to test himself because he's not sick. If he gets sick, he's not going to use anything to test himself because he cannot self prescribe, even a doctor can't do that. He's going to have to see a doctor, and unless malpractice lawsuits drop significantly, no doc is going to take his word for it, or take the word of the instrument in his home. Eventually said instrument might be hooked into a communication network that's protected privacy laws that only your doctor can use. If that's the case, the doctor could have you scan yourself at home and he could interpret the results, but he's still going to charge you.

There's obviously no silver bullet here, no tool can feasibly detect and treat every condition, but having a more affordable tool to detect and track most the common causes of death (blood cloths, cancer, etc) can go a long ways, I think.

Yes it could, but it wouldn't be a diagnosis. Medicine draws a distinction between screening and diagnostics. It would still require a doctor to 2nd tier test it. I think a good 1st step would be to have something you could do at home to test for polyps. As men get 50 or so they are required to get a colonoscopy. Some guys will have already developed cancerous cells and need to get what I call a semicolon, basically an operation, assuming they don't die from it first. A first check at home, stool sample or something that could detect abnormal cells would be worth the investment for many men over 35.

Another would be a test a female can do for breast cancer other than get a mammogram that they only get now and again.

I would agree about acquisitions, that's pretty common. As far as government funding, etc, I'm not so sure. Google is a company known for going all in on it's own in grand scale research projects: The self-driving car, Goggle Glass, the glucose-reading contacts (Novartis joined on this after Google announced). Apple is the same way, just a bit more secretive, and a company that has worked with medical ins utions. Their just announced ReseatchKit is a continuation of that.

It would have to be something of an app at first using something you can connect to your existing electronics. After a while people would likely not faint about investing in stand alone systems.

Ultimately, I think the current prices make it a market ripe for the taking. If they can put together a solid device, they can make money on them.

Unlike consumer electronics for entertainment, the medical industry is rife with lawsuits for products, procedures and pharmaceuticals. That's why there aren't many high end devices available now. They exist, but not for the consumer market. "Have you ever had your hand caught in the El Nono Stow and Go Blood Monitor? Call the law firm of DMC.. we specialize in making these high end "el cliente" types pay for your pain and suffering" "I lost my finger to the El Nono, DMC he got me twelve thousand dollars and 29 cents.... hes mi corizon.. si"

Nah, I'm talking imaging here. Discerning tissues, finding patterns. A lot of the current work on multi-layer, back propagated neural networks that's being used to do face recognition, even at angles, voice recognition and the like. It's a field that was stuck about 5 years ago, and has had a breakthrough lately.

We'll see, but right now what's important is that I get 200 more automatic turrets on the ship I'm building in Space Engineers and I need the processing power to handle it. Neurons can wait.

It's entirely possible I'm daydreaming. I would agree there would be pretty big interests pissed about this, but, again, that's why you need the behemoth. The guy that already went and face the music industry, the cell phone companies and told them how it's going to be. Otherwise, I agree it's a non-starter.

We'll see though. The patient is the cash cow. We won't be catered to that's for sure. They don't want cures, they want payments.

[ElNono]

After they were diagnosed, when treatment and monitoring has begun. That makes it 100% effective and only used by people diagnosed with the disease. You take a healthy 35 year old, he's not going to use anything to test himself because he's not sick. If he gets sick, he's not going to use anything to test himself because he cannot self prescribe, even a doctor can't do that. He's going to have to see a doctor, and unless malpractice lawsuits drop significantly, no doc is going to take his word for it, or take the word of the instrument in his home. Eventually said instrument might be hooked into a communication network that's protected privacy laws that only your doctor can use. If that's the case, the doctor could have you scan yourself at home and he could interpret the results, but he's still going to charge you.

I disagree that people won't test if it's accessible to them. It might be different for different age groups, but that's not really a concern, as there's no age-related requirements for the use.
Furthermore, doctors take readings from home bound instruments all the time. Cardiac event recorders, even glucose monitors that offer logging. Holter monitors are even used before a diagnosis. The malpractice liability for the doctor is no different then when using his own instruments. The liability for the device manufacturer is no different than the liability of any other medical device manufacturer, as they would need to go through the same FDA medical device testing.

As far as diagnosing, sure. I stated in the first post the machine won't give you a diagnosis, but will alert you to contact your doctor. But there's even alternatives to that. How about the company providing a subscription service to have flagged tests checked by a PA and actually provide a diagnosis you can take to your doctor? We're talking volume here. Just another thought.

Yes it could, but it wouldn't be a diagnosis. Medicine draws a distinction between screening and diagnostics. It would still require a doctor to 2nd tier test it. I think a good 1st step would be to have something you could do at home to test for polyps. As men get 50 or so they are required to get a colonoscopy. Some guys will have already developed cancerous cells and need to get what I call a semicolon, basically an operation, assuming they don't die from it first. A first check at home, stool sample or something that could detect abnormal cells would be worth the investment for many men over 35.

Another would be a test a female can do for breast cancer other than get a mammogram that they only get now and again.

Well, that's why I think imaging would be key. It's just the most generic way to do things that don't require hazard equipment (ie: x-ray).

It would have to be something of an app at first using something you can connect to your existing electronics. After a while people would likely not faint about investing in stand alone systems.

Both Android and iOS are paving the way with HealthKit and Google Fit. Right now they can track simple stuff like steps, whether you spent too much time sitting or not. The Watches now include heartbeat monitor with logging. Now we have ResearchKit to conduct clinical trials through your device. That's how you start building the "ecosystem".

Unlike consumer electronics for entertainment, the medical industry is rife with lawsuits for products, procedures and pharmaceuticals. That's why there aren't many high end devices available now. They exist, but not for the consumer market. "Have you ever had your hand caught in the El Nono Stow and Go Blood Monitor? Call the law firm of DMC.. we specialize in making these high end "el cliente" types pay for your pain and suffering" "I lost my finger to the El Nono, DMC he got me twelve thousand dollars and 29 cents.... hes mi corizon.. si"

That's an old problem with an old solution: Product Liability Insurance for Medical Devices and Life Sciences. And of course there's mass-market medical devices: the glucose reader we were talking about earlier is a mass market, consumer product, with multiple brands, cheap, etc. Obviously, different products will require different type of insurance coverage and incur in different liabilities.

We'll see, but right now what's important is that I get 200 more automatic turrets on the ship I'm building in Space Engineers and I need the processing power to handle it. Neurons can wait.

The way I think about it, it won't be a device you hook up to your computer. You could have an exposed interface to an app, on the phone or the computer, but it would be a secure networked device and the processing would be done off-site, much like the way voice recognition is done nowadays. It's simply much more economic and practical. Which is another major economic advantage over self-contained systems.

We'll see though. The patient is the cash cow. We won't be catered to that's for sure. They don't want cures, they want payments.

There's always money to be made. This would require a major investment and undercutting certain other cash cows. That's why it's something can can only be done by very few, which I think are positioning themselves right now.

[Th'Pusher]

"How much do you think this treatment costs? I figured $400 a day would be fair...pays their labor cost, pays off the cost of the machine in a year or less, rent, auxiliary staff, etc. and still leaves them with a tidy profit..." -CC

You said 400 a day. You didn't say 400 for your 2 hour treatment.

he also said:

"They want to do 10-20 treatments. You do one a day Monday through Friday."

You jumped on a ty argument. Just eat it and move on.

[CosmicCowboy]

"How much do you think this treatment costs? I figured $400 a day would be fair...pays their labor cost, pays off the cost of the machine in a year or less, rent, auxiliary staff, etc. and still leaves them with a tidy profit..." -CC

You said 400 a day. You didn't say 400 for your 2 hour treatment.

In the same post I said the treatment was 2 hours.

Major reading comprehension fail.

[DMC]

In the same post I said the treatment was 2 hours.

Major reading comprehension fail.

Saying "2 hours" in one sentence and saying "400 a day" in another creates unnecessary confusion. There's no problem with my reading comprehension skills. If someone told you they would work for 400 a day even if they said they worked 2 hours the previous day for 2K, you'd not assume they meant they'd work for 2 hours for 400. A day is not 2 hours. Perhaps a treatment is 2 hours. Be more specific, you aren't talking to s.

[DMC]

he also said:

"They want to do 10-20 treatments. You do one a day Monday through Friday."

You jumped on a ty argument. Just eat it and move on.

It doesn't jive with "pays their labor costs, pays off the machine etc...". How does his 400 do all that? You'd have to assume it was 400 for every 2 hour session and then assume how many sessions a day they get and you can't know that.

Also, mind your ing business.

[CosmicCowboy]

It doesn't jive with "pays their labor costs, pays off the machine etc...". How does his 400 do all that? You'd have to assume it was 400 for every 2 hour session and then assume how many sessions a day they get and you can't know that.

Also, mind your ing business.

Pretty simple math, really. They don't buy me my exclusive machine. Assuming a normal 8 hour day that would be 4 two hour sessions. Their hours are actually longer but since I didn't spoon feed you that information I could see how you might be confused. At $400 a session and 4 sessions a day that machine generates $1600 a day in income. In a year it could conceivably generate $364,000.

Need any more basic 2nd grade math assistance?

[DMC]

Pretty simple math, really. They don't buy me my exclusive machine. Assuming a normal 8 hour day that would be 4 two hour sessions. Their hours are actually longer but since I didn't spoon feed you that information I could see how you might be confused. At $400 a session and 4 sessions a day that machine generates $1600 a day in income. In a year it could conceivably generate $364,000.

Need any more basic 2nd grade math assistance?

So you should invest in one, hire a couple techs and only charge 500.00. That's a tidy profit on top of what you already deemed to be profitable. I mean, since you'll have 100% utilization you won't have to worry about idle time, prep time, service contracts or certification costs. Who can service a chamber that's in use 100% of the time?

See, I just made you a butt load of money.

[CosmicCowboy]

LMAO

@ $2000 X 7 treatments a day X 5 days a week X 52 weeks =$3,640,000. a year

Lets generously assume a 50% utilization rate.

Still gives you $1,820,000 a year per machine and plenty of time fo regular time service calls and plenty for salary for a stripper quality nurse to turn the machine on and off.

I can't believe you are actually trying to defend this .

I'm pretty sure I could build a machine that would do what it does for $10,000. Simple 15# pressure vessel and pressure gauges, regulators, purge up/down controls and O2 supply. I work on and build stuff a lot more complicated than that.