Kawhi Pippen in March

[wildchild]

He is mostly an ISO/Post up guy in Pop's system tbh..

It does nothing but prove my point.
Kawhi playing in the post is a really good thing but Pop doesn't do a lot to facilitate Kawhi's offense.

[FkLA]

Great. Max players sustain that production for a whole year though, instead of just half a month.

Other max players don't have the luxury of still being the best defender in the league when their offense falters below 20 ppg. At this point, there's no argument for not giving him the max tbh.

[wildchild]

Great. Max players sustain that production for a whole year though, instead of just half a month.

So...max players never get injured, never miss the preseason and 20 games in a season...good to know it.

Ironman...Iron Max Player.

[Uriel]

I'm not saying we shouldn't give Kawhi the max. Of course we should. I'm saying that his being awarded a max contract is an outcome of his market value, not his value relative to his actual production.

[apalisoc_9]

I'm not saying we shouldn't give Kawhi the max. Of course we should. I'm saying that his being awarded a max contract is an outcome of his market value, not his value relative to his actual production.

Best players in their team and best defender in the league deserve max money..Market value or not.

[Malik Hairston]

Kawhi isn't a max offensive player, to be fair, I do agree with that, tbh..

Halfcourt Offense: B-
Defense: A+
Rebounding: A for his position

That's sufficient for a max deal, tbh..the offensive grade is excluding his offensive creating ability that stems from his defense, too..

Many of the "franchise player" types are A+ offensive players that are D-level defenders..

[spurraider21]

Kawhi isn't a max offensive player, to be fair, I do agree with that, tbh..

Halfcourt Offense: B-
Defense: A+
Rebounding: A for his position

That's sufficient for a max deal, tbh..the offensive grade is excluding his offensive creating ability that stems from his defense, too..

Many of the "franchise player" types are A+ offensive players that are D-level defenders..

if he can maintain his offensive production in march, i'd raise that grade. 20+ ppg on north of 50% shooting is a B+ offensively (considering he doesn't contribute too much yet in the playmaking department)

[Malik Hairston]

if he can maintain his offensive production in march, i'd raise that grade. 20+ ppg on north of 50% shooting is a B+ offensively (considering he doesn't contribute too much yet in the playmaking department)

A lot of those points come from the terror he causes on the defensive end, which I excluded in the grade..

Leonard's position is very difficult to build an offense around, tbh..unless you're a historic, rare playmaker at SF like Lebron or Bird, or a generational scorer like Durant, it's really tough to build a great offense around a SF..

Looking at other SFs and even SG hybrids(guys like Klay Thompson), the only guys that create more than 50% of their own offense are Lebron and Carmelo IIRC..even Durant doesn't..it's a tough position to attack with on the offensive end..

[spurraider21]

A lot of those points come from the terror he causes on the defensive end, which I excluded in the grade..

Leonard's position is very difficult to build an offense around, tbh..unless you're a historic, rare playmaker at SF like Lebron or Bird, or a generational scorer like Durant, it's really tough to build a great offense around a SF..

Looking at other SFs and even SG hybrids(guys like Klay Thompson), the only guys that create more than 50% of their own offense are Lebron and Carmelo IIRC..even Durant doesn't..it's a tough position to attack with on the offensive end..

yeah, i dont think he'd ever be a consistent #1 option to build an offense around. but i've noticed he almost always draws doubles when he goes to the post, especially after he's scored once or twice early. he struggles to make a good pass out of it though, which would be the next step in his offensive game. he also has to get his 3pt% back into the upper 30's

[Malik Hairston]

They doubled him in today's game, but that was more related to Duncan's inability to make jump shots, as Sean pointed out..

I'm not a fan of post offense in today's league, btw, unless it's against mismatches..

Regardless, Kawhi is an extremely unique player, he doesn't have to be a great offensive player to be a franchise guy IMO..there aren't many guys in the history of the league that disrupt offenses as much as he does on the defensive end..

[apalisoc_9]

I think the Key to having a successful kawhi led team is finding another 1a or 1b offensive option. Parker is 32 and won't be able to play at high level soon..Maybe another year or two max..

I think if the team continues to rely on ball movement, Kawhi won't really have to shoulder offensive loads as big as a Lebron or Durant..

Similar to Atlanta, but Kawhi is clearly the better overall player than three guys over there....I'm just trying to figure out who could be a good fit Kawhi's game...

[look_at_g_shred]

I think the Key to having a successful kawhi led team is finding another 1a or 1b offensive option. Parker is 32 and won't be able to play at high level soon..Maybe another year or two max..

I think if the team continues to rely on ball movement, Kawhi won't really have to shoulder offensive loads as big as a Lebron or Durant..

Similar to Atlanta, but Kawhi is clearly the better overall player than three guys over there....I'm just trying to figure out who could be a good fit Kawhi's game...

another big man. Timmy compliments Kawhi so well.
It's like they were meant to play together. Maybe a guy like Monroe. Of course davis, but we can forget bout that happening

[100%duncan]

I think the Key to having a successful kawhi led team is finding another 1a or 1b offensive option. Parker is 32 and won't be able to play at high level soon..Maybe another year or two max..

I think if the team continues to rely on ball movement, Kawhi won't really have to shoulder offensive loads as big as a Lebron or Durant..

Similar to Atlanta, but Kawhi is clearly the better overall player than three guys over there....I'm just trying to figure out who could be a good fit Kawhi's game...

The key to it is not having kawhi as your number 1 offensive guy. However theres not much players out there who are available/good enough

[apalisoc_9]

Kawhi can be the number 1 guy at a ball moving offensive set..

Just need to make sure he doesn't shoulder as muxh load as a lebron and a KD..that is way to tiring.

[wildchild]

Looking at other SFs and even SG hybrids(guys like Klay Thompson), the only guys that create more than 50% of their own offense are Lebron and Carmelo IIRC..even Durant doesn't..it's a tough position to attack with on the offensive end..

Agreed, but we don't see Pop trying to give Kawhi help to make it easier for him to score...even Warriors use a lot of screens by bigs and plays made to get Klay open.

I think the Key to having a successful kawhi led team is finding another 1a or 1b offensive option. Parker is 32 and won't be able to play at high level soon..Maybe another year or two max..

Kawhi's offense has never been a priority for Pop and will never be.

That's why they'll try hard to get a scoring bigman like Aldridge or someone like him next years.

[itzsoweezee]

They doubled him in today's game, but that was more related to Duncan's inability to make jump shots, as Sean pointed out..

I'm not a fan of post offense in today's league, btw, unless it's against mismatches..

Regardless, Kawhi is an extremely unique player, he doesn't have to be a great offensive player to be a franchise guy IMO..there aren't many guys in the history of the league that disrupt offenses as much as he does on the defensive end..

Cleveland doubled Kawhi too.

[spurraider21]

what kawhi would need is a scoring 4 that can step out and shoot. basically duncan before his jumper broke

[FkLA]

wildchild, I agree that right now Pop isn't making things easier for him but I also don't see why Pop wouldn't eventually transition the offense to cater to him. Timmy and Manu will retire soon and Rique isn't getting any younger. The Spurs just won a le without a true offensive #1 and Atlanta is thriving without one so I don't think he needs to be that, just need him to be a 1a/1b imo.

[Malik Hairston]

Cleveland doubled Kawhi too.

Teams will double him on mismatches, he was one of the 3 best post players(statistically) in the league last year IIRC, it was mostly against mismatches..teams won't double him on post plays vs. traditional SFs, though, it's a stupid strategy by the opposing team(not necessarily a knock on Kawhi, it's mostly based on the current league forecast) unless they're going to force Duncan to shoot, which is probably going to happen more often in the playoffs IMO, unfortunately..

[Malik Hairston]

Agreed, but we don't see Pop trying to give Kawhi help to make it easier for him to score...even Warriors use a lot of screens by bigs and plays made to get Klay open.



Kawhi's offense has never been a priority for Pop and will never be.

That's why they'll try hard to get a scoring bigman like Aldridge or someone like him next years.

I think they've been utilizing him well enough, he's been getting a good amount of touches IMO, he has been by far the best player on the team lately..

We don't know what the plan for the system was coming into the year, though, Kawhi's early injuries/absence put a wrench in everything, it's tough to build a system and chemistry on the fly..

[apalisoc_9]

wildchild, I agree that right now Pop isn't making things easier for him but I also don't see why Pop wouldn't eventually transition the offense to cater to him. Timmy and Manu will retire soon and Rique isn't getting any younger. The Spurs just won a le without a true offensive #1 and Atlanta is thriving without one so I don't think he needs to be that, just need him to be a 1a/1b imo.

[Ice009]

Kawhi can be the number 1 guy at a ball moving offensive set..

Just need to make sure he doesn't shoulder as muxh load as a lebron and a KD..that is way to tiring.

I personally don't think that he should be the number 1 option on offense because of the reason you mentioned and also because it could take away from his defense. I don't really want him to have to drop his defensive level because he's carrying an offense. It could make him too tired to perform at his best/usual level on defense. Not sure if there's been many players in NBA history that have been able to do that?

A 1B or 2 on offense would be better all around IMO.

[wildchild]

I think they've been utilizing him well enough, he's been getting a good amount of touches IMO, he has been by far the best player on the team lately..

Getting thouches doesn't mean use him well or facilitate his offensive game.

wildchild, I agree that right now Pop isn't making things easier for him but I also don't see why Pop wouldn't eventually transition the offense to cater to him.

Kawhi excels as post up player but still...if that the only plays we see in three seasons it could be a poor development coaching work or just Pop waiting for another options than Leonard next years. Since Pop is one of the best coaches in NBA history, I would go with the latter...
But agree with Malik that the injuries -and then the losses, seeding- didn't allow to play the supposed plan for the season. We'll see.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

yeah, i dont think he'd ever be a consistent #1 option to build an offense around. but i've noticed he almost always draws doubles when he goes to the post, especially after he's scored once or twice early. he struggles to make a good pass out of it though, which would be the next step in his offensive game. he also has to get his 3pt% back into the upper 30's

Do you think he'll ever become a consistent threat in the post?

[benstanfield]

One thing I've noticed is that he's found another gear in big match ups like Lebron or the upstart Wiggins. Against the PJ Tuckers of the league he is good, but lately against marquee players he has taken it personally and put the team on his shoulders. Bodes well for the playoffs tbh