Most athletic PG in history is D.Rose
You misspelled Speedy Claxton.
Here's another example that debunks the stupid idea that "could you imagine so-and-so from [insert era here] going against a modern player? Lol, the old player would get killed!
The center/pf with the greatest skill/athleticism ratio in NBA history is easily Hakeem. Nearly as athletic as David Robinson, lightning quick, complete game, from post up, to face up, to jumper. Hakeem's game is pretty much flawless and he makes "modern bigs" look like in comparison. Okay, let's pretend we're in '96. Hakeem is fresh off repeating, and some "old school" fan is telling us about the greatness of Kevin McHale. We all laugh, saying no way could a sluggish white boy with a 1" vertical do anything against Hakeem, or the amazing centers of today: David Robinson, Ewing, Mourning, Shaq, etc. We say Elden Campbell would be the best PF in McHale's era, that's how much bigs have "evolved."
Oh, what's this? McHale did play against Hakeem? And it was on the NBA's biggest stage. Hakeem, even though young and still a bit a rough, would've surely dominated an "antiquated" Kevin McHale, right?
Nope. McHale outplayed Hakeem. And this was a "pure" big vs. big matchup, since Houston's center was Ralph Sampson.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...86_finals.html
Now, I'm not claiming McHale could outplay prime Hakeem, but I'm using the matchup as an example of how re ed it is to make simple "no way would so-and-so be able to compete today" without considering how the game itself evolves incrementally, how the players adapt in turn, and how misguided it is to judge the ability of a player through youtube clips and era comparisons. If McHale and Hakeem never matched up, the simple idea to default to would be "Lol, no way could McHale even do anything against an 18 year old Hakeem. Players have evolved! Plyometrics!" and other such bad arguments.
In all honesty, all bias aside, look at this ing dude dribbling a basketball..can barely use his off-hand, has to back up his opponent against pressure since he can't use his handles to get by him, the ball is way too high..Jesus Christ, this dude was the ing top PG of his era
My 16-year old cousin actually asked me about Oscar Robertson once, and I literally had to password-block his computer from searching the keywords "Oscar" and "Robertson"..as a die-hard basketball fan, I'm embarrassed to discuss some of these dudes with the younger generation, I'm trying to prevent him from watching their tapes, tbh..I'll let him stick with the narrative and stats of guys like Oscar and Wilt, and the lore of Bill Russell's rings, rather than actually allowing him to watch them play, which will hurt his spirit..
Your first mistake is assuming the bolded.Good try though.
Malik/Apolisoc trolling hard
No three point shot.
Talent spread between two different leagues.
Im not impressed by any game or seasons pre-merger.
It's not even debatable. You either have bigs that are supremely skilled but have poor/average athleticism: Duncan, McHale, Pau Gasol, Kareem, Bill Walton. Or bigs who rely more on athleticism than skill: Wilt, David Robinson, Dwight. And bigs who dominate through size: Wilt again, Shaq, etc.
Hakeem was both supremely skilled and uber-athletic, and had length and size to go along with that. Still haven't seen a big as complete as him in the NBA. And no AAU monkey today comes close.
Olajuwon didn't benefit from Eastern bloc methods until the 90's. I saw the game as well, the Celtics picked them apart due to lack of experience lmao.
Here's a one point lesson: Look at 1:07. When the defender doesn't flop on that drive, that pretty much removes him from the ability to compete today, and since Oscar didn't flail his head and arms during the shot to force contact and a call, he's out as well.
In all honesty, all bias aside, look at this ing dude dribbling a basketball
My 16-year old cousin actually asked me about Oscar Robertson once, and I literally had to password-block his computer from searching the keywords "Oscar" and "Robertson"..as a die-hard basketball fan, I'm embarrassed to discuss some of these dudes with the younger generation, I'm trying to prevent him from watching their tapes, tbh..I'll let him stick with the narrative and stats of guys like Oscar and Wilt, and the lore of Bill Russell's rings, rather than actually allowing him to watch them play, which will hurt his spirit..
Not really, don't you remember? You used the weights of players that weren't updated, you used the weights of players that weren't comparable either such as comparing a 6'4 225lb SG to a 6'10 225lb Center.
You keep mistaking Vertical/strength for athleticism lmao. Judging guys that look insanely athletic around guys that weren't athletic.
Btw, I think it was you that tried to used the broad jump to prove your point lmao...
It was broken by a 22 year old 200lb man not too long ago.
Brb breaking a guy's record that trained his entire life to set without effort while outweighing him by 60lbs.
Matt Bonner would be great in the 70's lmao, 240lb PF with his shooting ability, strength and athleticism, taking guys off the dribble. Wilt is going to look athletic around terrible compe ion, it's all relative to the player's overall ability. You put an NBA player around poor compe ion, they're going to all look like Jordan.
You do realize Auerbach's Celtics invented flopping, right? It's hardly a new phenomenon, players have been doing it since the early years.
People still don't know how Eastern bloc methods relate to sports smh. I think Chamberlain may have even used them himself, he was working out with Schwarzeneggar, one of the first to fully utilize Eastern bloc training methods.
Old Training methods:
Isolated muscle movements, basic compound exercises which built mass/strength/slow twitch muscle fibers
No idea of how many sets/reps, often injuring themselves, over training
No idea of proper rest either, allowing your muscles to heal and get stronger, leading to injury (Jordan avoided weight training until the 90's bc of this)
No idea of proper nutrition, you can workout like a beast but if you're not eating right, you're not recovering properly, not fulfilling potential at all.
All these do not allow you to reach your maximum potential as an athlete.
Easter bloc training methods taught us:
-How to properly rest our muscles
-Introduced a large variety of new exercises that trained your muscles for these sports, not your basic compound movements
-Proper nutrition allowed us to maximize gains, gain weight/muscle, avoid injury
-How to approach training in an explosive manner, increasing overall muscular endurance, reaction time, balance (core strength), quickness, through this we build fast twitch fibers instead of slow twitch fibers.
Can someone name a single modern athlete that does not use eastern bloc training methods? Because I can't really think of any, at all.
Btw, the sheer athleticism this takes for a 6'10 260+lb man to do is just insane. The balance, the foot work, you cannot do these things if you build your muscle through basic compound movements, you need fast twitch, explosive, lean muscle, to will your body to what you need it to do such as this.
Not on every play, else we wouldn't be talking about it now.
No. I used the long and high jump world records to prove my point. The broad jump hasn't been a relevant athletic event in 100 years. The record that guy broke was like 111 years old
Today's NBA is antiquated, tbh
Wilt could shoot over either shoulder with both hands and had excellent footwork. His athletic metrics are legendary.
Are you going back to your stock lies designed to aggrandize isos and crossover dribbles?Dribbling a basketball at the PG position is pretty essential, G
What was it they have to look while they dribble and cannot dribble with both hands?
How original. Evolution has taken hold in 40 years as well.
Iirc herschel walker didn't even lift weights and stuck to push-ups and and was one of the most dominant, athletic running backs in football history
Larry Bird even commented how lazy McHale was away from gameday and how he'd rather drink and party than work on his game and train. And yet, he still outplayed one of the most athletic big men in NBA history
I'm not totally discrediting "modern training" methods, and they have been responsible for an improvement in overall athleticism, but the improvement is very, very marginal. The biggest leap we've seen in basketball players (at least among wing and guards) in the past 30-40 years is in skill (dribbling with both hands, finishing with both hands, post play, shot mechanics, etc). And any great player of the past could adapt and learn these skills over a couple off seasons, meaning a player like Oscar would likely still be elite after he adapted.
It takes an athletic freak of nature to do something like this:
But yeah, Fat Lowry or Raymond Felton would dominate Oscar (who measured 6'5" barefoot and weighed in at 220) athletically and physically because Eastern Bloc training
Last edited by midnightpulp; 04-05-2015 at 12:17 AM.
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