Spurs: The chain of alphas in league history

[100%duncan]

Another HH37 schtick shows up on the black market.

CN takes it too far in the ass

[FkLA]

Yes. Especially when Dirk carried the Mavs over the Spurs in 06.

And yes with regards to Lebron as well. There's an argument in 08, but I'd take Dirk over Lebron for 06 and 07.

lol are you German?

Duncan won a ring during that period while Dirk was getting bullied by GS.

[Thread]

Im right here Cubs, unlike you last June.


Tee hee.

Fine. You're back on the list.

[100%duncan]

Fine. You're back on the list.

Go back and your mother some more.

[ambchang]

Duncan was great in that series too, without the Manu foul, we would have 3peated

Certainly was, but Dirk played Duncan to a standstill, and his regular season work was just better (Duncan was having his minutes monitored and such)

lol are you German?

Duncan won a ring during that period while Dirk was getting bullied by GS.

Winning a ring is a team accomplishment, Dirk won an MVP during that time. As for the GS series, they match up with Dirk perfectly, and the rest of the Mavs didn't step up. It's like saying Duncan choked vs. the Grizzlies in the 8 series.

[Thread]

8

I'm a trend setter.

I set trends.

[Clipper Nation]

Another HH37 schtick shows up on the black market.

The truth is a "schtick"?

[FkLA]

Winning a ring is a team accomplishment, Dirk won an MVP during that time. As for the GS series, they match up with Dirk perfectly, and the rest of the Mavs didn't step up. It's like saying Duncan choked vs. the Grizzlies in the 8 series.

Then why the do you use 'Dirk beat TD' as part of your argument? That was a team accomplishment too. IDC if GS matched up well with him or not, a true alpha would've pulled through. Detroit had the horses and length to bother Timmy in '05 and he came out on top with a le and FMVP.

'11 Timmy is a ty comparison since he was clearly past his prime by then. Dirk was in the midst of his in '07.

[DMC]

The truth is a "schtick"?

Just stop

[Clipper Nation]

Just stop

Why did the "alpha" have a 182-228 record (2-9 in the postseason) without MVPippen holding his hand?

[ambchang]

Then why the do you use 'Dirk beat TD' as part of your argument? That was a team accomplishment too. IDC if GS matched up well with him or not, a true alpha would've pulled through. Detroit had the horses and length to bother Timmy in '05 and he came out on top with a le and FMVP.

'11 Timmy is a ty comparison since he was clearly past his prime by then. Dirk was in the midst of his in '07.

I used the Dirk beat Timmy argument because the Spurs were more loaded than the Mavs outside of Duncan/Dirk, and the Mavs still won. True that the Mavs matched up well with the Spurs with their midrange game, but in the grand scheme of things, Dirk played better than Duncan in the mid 00s.

As I mentioned, the Mavs matched up with the Spurs in 06, according to you, Duncan should have pulled through in that series.

11 was used to illustrate the importance of matchups.

[Killakobe81]

Wow what a ty premise you got 2 pages though ...nice work.

[FkLA]

I used the Dirk beat Timmy argument because the Spurs were more loaded than the Mavs outside of Duncan/Dirk, and the Mavs still won.

Timmy did his part. They didn't lose because Dirk outplayed Timmy, they lost because the Mavs outplayed the Spurs. Kinda dumb to say the Spurs were more loaded when the players outside of Timmy/Dirk ended up being the difference in the series.

True that the Mavs matched up well with the Spurs with their midrange game, but in the grand scheme of things, Dirk played better than Duncan in the mid 00s.

Is defense not part of basketball or something?

As I mentioned, the Mavs matched up with the Spurs in 06, according to you, Duncan should have pulled through in that series.

He did his job the rest of the team came up short. Did Dirk do his vs GS? Also quit acting like the Mavs weren't legit le contenders that year. That wasn't a gimmick team like GS.

11 was used to illustrate the importance of matchups.

No, like I said it's stupid. That Memphis frontline wouldn't have been a match-up problem for Timmy during his prime.

[Double-Up]

lol no Kobe on the list...

[ambchang]

Timmy did his part. They didn't lose because Dirk outplayed Timmy, they lost because the Mavs outplayed the Spurs. Kinda dumb to say the Spurs were more loaded when the players outside of Timmy/Dirk ended up being the difference in the series.

Parker, Manu and Bowen > Josh Howard.

Is defense not part of basketball or something?

It is, but let's take 2006, Dirk had a WS of 17.7 (league leading) and and VORP of 6.0. Duncan had 10.8 and 4.6. Even taking defense into account, Dirk outshone Duncan.

He did his job. Did Dirk play his vs GS? Also quit acting like the Mavs weren't legit le contenders that year. That wasn't a gimmick team like GS.

The 07 Mavs were not a gimmick team, the 07 GSW was though, and their gimmick was matching up perfectly with the mavs. The Warriors hounded Dirk relentlessly during that series. it wasn't that he just missed, he was jacking up way less shots than he normally does.

No, like I said it's stupid. That Memphis frontline wouldn't have been a match-up problem for Timmy during his prime.

And yet it was in 2011. Duncan played poorly in that series, even by the 2011 standards, and it's because the Grizzlies match up with Timmy very well.

[FkLA]

2006 WCSF
Timmy: 32.3 ppg, 11.7 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.6 bpg on 56%shooting
Dirk: 27.1 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 2.7 apg on 53% shooting

Yet somehow Dirk was the better player because his team won? outta here.

[ambchang]

2006 WCSF
Timmy: 32.3 ppg, 11.7 rpg, 3.7 apg, 2.6 bpg on 56%shooting
Dirk: 27.1 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 2.7 apg on 53% shooting

Yet somehow Dirk was the better player because his team won? outta here.

Are we looking at alphas in series now? Sorry, I thought we have been talking about periods. My bads.

Who was the alpha for minutes 16 to 19 in Game 4 of that series?

[100%duncan]

Are we looking at alphas in series now? Sorry, I thought we have been talking about periods. My bads.

Who was the alpha for minutes 16 to 19 in Game 4 of that series?

Yeah go back to periods tbh.

You put Dirk in a period where TD rang twice. Dirk's came during Lebron's.

[Arcadian]

Yeah, Dirk doesn't belong. If we're going by playoff performance (which we should), Duncan was the best player from 03-08.

[ambchang]

Yeah go back to periods tbh.

You put Dirk in a period where TD rang twice. Dirk's came during Lebron's.

Rings are team accomplishments.

I will never put Billups as the alpha in 04, nor will I put Kawhi as the alpha in 14.

[ambchang]

lol no Kobe on the list...

I tried, but I couldn't find a slot for him.

Ultimately, it was either putting him in for 05 to 07 for missing the playoffs in his prime, or putting him in for the repeat where Gasol had a higher WS than Kobe did.

[DAF86]

I know this is a Kobe hating thread but at putting Dirk on this list.

[FkLA]

Parker, Manu and Bowen > Josh Howard.

Here take a look for yourself at how the rest of the guys outside of Duncan/Dirk performed.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._2006_WCS.html

It is, but let's take 2006, Dirk had a WS of 17.7 (league leading) and and VORP of 6.0. Duncan had 10.8 and 4.6. Even taking defense into account, Dirk outshone Duncan.

Do people even use WS anymore? I'd rather just settle the discussion by looking at the fact that one was the best post player in the league+arguably the best defensive anchor and the other wasn't.

The 07 Mavs were not a gimmick team, the 07 GSW was though, and their gimmick was matching up perfectly with the mavs. The Warriors hounded Dirk relentlessly during that series. it wasn't that he just missed, he was jacking up way less shots than he normally does.

Yeah, teams normally hound first options. True alphas perform regardless.

And yet it was in 2011. Duncan played poorly in that series, even by the 2011 standards, and it's because the Grizzlies match up with Timmy very well.

He was past his prime so why does it matter? Do you not realize how dumb it is to bring it up to defend an 'alpha' that faltered horribly during his prime? Give me an example of another one of your alphas faltering like that during their prime then you'd have a point.

[DAF86]

I crowbarred Dirk in there because I really couldn't put anybody on the list from 06 to around 08. The best player in those couple of years was Dirk. Kobe had huge numbers but he was exposed as a me-first chucker, Wade didn't really didn't have the numbers to back him up, Nash was overrated, and Duncan wasn't as dominant as he was in the early 00s.

As for Kobe, when he won b2b FMVP, Lebron was clearly the man. It wasn't even Kobe's best stretch in his career, he just had a better team around him.

Being absent from the list doesn't really mean much. Shaq nudged Duncan in the early 00s despite how historically great Duncan was, and Duncan nudged Garnett in the next few years. Same with the Bird/Jordan/Magic scenario. Magic was an all time great, but the years he really dominated were also the years Jordan dominated, but Jordan was just better. Likewise for Rick Barry, Jerry West, and Bill Walton. Loved those guys, but their peaks just wasn't high enough when compared to Wilt, Kareem and such.

Lebron easily.

[whitemamba]

lmao @ duncan being an alpha, in op and his fantasy takes.