Jazz: National socialist germany

[m>s]

You have read about the night, so you know.
And the links for the SS executing Germans they thought had turned on Hitler?
Are you serious?

You find them yourself. They are all over. They are Fckn all over...

Removing a few political traitors isn't in any way comparable to mass nurdering your own CIVILIANS by the MILLIONS. That comparison is laughable

[m>s]

M>s

You realize you got Hitler to thank for the veins of the US running throughout Europe?
And the Russians you love so much with Mr. Putin.
He keeps the US involved and legit. So Hitler set the US up for domination, and the USSR and nor Russia ensures it stays this way.

Ironic, so ironic.
For your goals are actually thwarted by your heroes in a way.
Man.... What a if looked at this way.

There were no good options. Western powers were determined to keep Germany down. Stalin preparing for war in the east. We knew we'd have to pull off the unthinkable but the one thing we didn't have was a choice.


In the end International capitalism won out. Countries, cultures, entire races and ethnic groups sacrificed at the altar of greed and capitalism.

[pgardn]

Removing a few political traitors isn't in any way comparable to mass nurdering your own CIVILIANS by the MILLIONS. That comparison is laughable

Actually I could agree with this. It's not close to the same level, as Stalin was not nearly as organized as Hitler.
But it's brutal, paranoid, and obvious. Some of his very best men. Hitler was paranoid and hated bad news. He could not handle the truth which is why a bunch of petty politically minded men ended up being his closest allies. He killed his brainpower and bravest.

[pgardn]

There were no good options. Western powers were determined to keep Germany down. Stalin preparing for war in the east. We knew we'd have to pull off the unthinkable but the one thing we didn't have was a choice.


In the end International capitalism won out. Countries, cultures, entire races and ethnic groups sacrificed at the altar of greed and capitalism.

Stalin was not close to being ready for anything of any scale. He had a mental breakdown when Germany made things difficult.

And yep, capitalism has its pitfalls. But a democracy at least allows us to have this kind of conversation. You think you would get this luxury in Russia? Really? We know and can complain about this country because we can. We are allowed to. And we got access to info and know we could be under scrutiny.

No one is following me overtly. You? I can grab my kayak and go to the coast right now if I choose. No papers, no restrictions. I'm Fckn lucky as to be born here and I know it.

[K...]

Stalin was not close to being ready for anything of any scale. He had a mental breakdown when Germany made things difficult.

And yep, capitalism has its pitfalls. But a democracy at least allows us to have this kind of conversation. You think you would get this luxury in Russia? Really? We know and can complain about this country because we can. We are allowed to. And we got access to info and know we could be under scrutiny.

No one is following me overtly. You? I can grab my kayak and go to the coast right now if I choose. No papers, no restrictions. I'm Fckn lucky as to be born here and I know it.

This is kind of a meltdown here. First Capitalism and civil rights are totally separate things. Heck, democracy and rights are not even the same things. You need to recognize that the US has the luxury of never being attacked by a neighboring country. (and yet we are still scared of mexicans coming over lol). I like the US combinations of freedom and economic opportunity. I live here. But it's not perfect and it can get a lot worse than Obama.

The US is free because we stamped out any social revolution that came up. Unions, smashed, black people, smashed, Mexico? Indians? smashed. Whenever the US feels threatened from within they do dictator like things.


But, off topic, what kind of kayak do you have?

[m>s]

Whenever the US feels threatened from within they do dictator like things.

Which was exacy the case with Germany. National socialism was a reactionary movement.

[Molotov]

Some random observations:

Hitler killed the least popular people in Europe. He wan't the first or last jew killer just the most organized. There were dozens of pogroms throughout european history and it was frankly mainstream to consider Jews to be subhuman for around 1800.

Stalin killed Russians.

Hitler made Germany a stronger nation and helped it out of the crippling depression left by WWI and the sanctions.

Stalin destroyed the church, wrecked the economy, destroyed literature, harassed artists, neutered the professional classes.

Hitler fought his wars with general lawful warfare tactics (notwithstanding going on offense without provocation)(unlike the Allies who used their heavy bombers without discrimination, resulting in the fire tornadoes of Dresden and Hamburg)

Stalin let St. Petersburg slowly die. He stole Nuclear tech from the US and pushed the nuclear arms race that almost led to world annihilation. He used proxy armies and used forced migration of near asian peoples. He had the worlds largest prison camps and show trials

In the end the end they are both pathetic people. But Hitler was a product of the time. If he wasn't the jackass to start world was 2 it would have probably been another England vs France Battle or Spain. How Boring.

Stalin was the lead thief among uptight thieves, based upon a bankrupt interpretation of socialism. A petty little Georgian. Russia could have been the best country of the 20th century with all the Natural Resources and cultural geneity that the US wished it had in the 1950's. lol. Instead it's a permanent failed state reverting to strong man rule. Germany of course is and was a democracy.

So anyway, beware of over promising politicians in general and beware of people who think violence trumps ideas. The difference between Stalin and Isis is a difference of gods and success. They use the exact same tactics. It's really crazy.

All wild claims with little basis on facts. It's understandable that the most successful dictator in history of the world, Lord Stalin, would have the most haters, after winning the greatest war in history of the world, WWII. But instead of hating, ignorant peon, you should be thankful to Lord Stalin and the Victorious Red Army for saving the world from evil Hitler and his Nazi oppressors.

[pgardn]

This is kind of a meltdown here. First Capitalism and civil rights are totally separate things. Heck, democracy and rights are not even the same things. You need to recognize that the US has the luxury of never being attacked by a neighboring country. (and yet we are still scared of mexicans coming over lol). I like the US combinations of freedom and economic opportunity. I live here. But it's not perfect and it can get a lot worse than Obama.

The US is free because we stamped out any social revolution that came up. Unions, smashed, black people, smashed, Mexico? Indians? smashed. Whenever the US feels threatened from within they do dictator like things.


But, off topic, what kind of kayak do you have?

We had a Frggn civil war? Wtf happened just in the 6os? We are a young country in comparison, but have had quite a bit of happen...

And Of course they are not the same things, m>s and I go back a ways with these discussions. I am trying, unsuccessfully I might add, to convert him away from his neonazi nature. And, I have been to too many other countries to know how good we have had it here. And definitely not all of us. But people who think the US is racist, authoritarian, lacking compassion, unfair, have no Fckn clue, none, imo. My Uncle (a foreign diplomat) and business allow me to see and witness. Absolutely the worst racism I have seen is in white Eastern Europe... I could go on and on with so much other stuff. Indiscriminate beatings that make Ferguson laughable. Stuff that does not get press because the press is stomped out.

Now. Much more important...

A Kayak Drifter. An 17 year old. 12' 6". Was made for the Pacific and Scuba Diving. 3 feet wide. I Have converted it into a fishing machine. I got many more details of the good and bad it presents for fishing the flats. It's mostly good for me. I could go on forever about this kayak. I have kept it in good shape although it has its share of oyster scratches. I have caught soooo many fish from this...

I must stop.

[m>s]

I must stop.

Don't ever stop homie, kayak for life

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

All wild claims with little basis on facts. It's understandable that the most successful dictator in history of the world, Lord Stalin, would have the most haters, after winning the greatest war in history of the world, WWII. But instead of hating, ignorant peon, you should be thankful to Lord Stalin and the Victorious Red Army for saving the world from evil Hitler and his Nazi oppressors.

Stalin was a murdering Prick. It was the US that helped Russian win that war as we sent tons of supplies through the Artic where thousands of American men lost their lives from the cold and U Boat attacks. Without that aid, Russia would have fallen.

It's funny how they don't teach this in Russian schools as my wife who is half Russian/Ukrainian believes Russia defeated Germany by themselves. I finally had to show her the war footage that show American sailors landing on Russian soil and delivering tons of supplies to the Russians.

You can just see the dejected look on these sailors faces as many of the boats had big holes in them from Sub attacks and they even showed where sailors had to amputate their limps from the frostbite.

But Russians still believe they did it alone as I am sure they never taught this is Soviet Russia, that American sailors risk their lives bringing much needed supplies to Russia.

[urunobili]

Are they drafting Kaminsky?

[Infinite_limit]

I have catching up to do in this thread

[Molotov]

Stalin was a murdering Prick. It was the US that helped Russian win that war as we sent tons of supplies through the Artic where thousands of American men lost their lives from the cold and U Boat attacks. Without that aid, Russia would have fallen.

It's funny how they don't teach this in Russian schools as my wife who is half Russian/Ukrainian believes Russia defeated Germany by themselves. I finally had to show her the war footage that show American sailors landing on Russian soil and delivering tons of supplies to the Russians.

You can just see the dejected look on these sailors faces as many of the boats had big holes in them from Sub attacks and they even showed where sailors had to amputate their limps from the frostbite.

But Russians still believe they did it alone as I am sure they never taught this is Soviet Russia, that American sailors risk their lives bringing much needed supplies to Russia.

Yes, I'm sure without a few American supplies and trucks Russia would have lost WWII. That's it dummy. Nazi Germany war machine was at the peak of its power just before attack on Mother Russia, after some initial setbacks Lord Stalin and the Victorious Red Army turned the tided and gave the Nazi aggressor what they deserved, all the way to Berlin. The greatest number of divisions and most decisive battles were all fought on the Eastern front, I didn't expect your American High School education() to cover that. Americans sent some supplies but they were far from decisive in the outcome, dummy, and they entered the war when the Nazis were already falling back before the growing might of the Red Army. The number of divisions engaged in the African and Western theaters was pathetic in comparison to the forces contesting the outcome of WWII on the Eastern front, just like in the Great War the Americans were a mere sideshow.

[Silver&Black]

One on One fight. Germany vs. Russia during the WWII period....who wins?

m<s, stalin, Molotov....your thoughts?

[m>s]

Is it even a question? Germany almost did it with one hand while slapping around 2 world powers plus Poland with the other. Even still, the U.S. Providing those raw materials and goods is what really swung it. Soviet jewnion didn't have enough resources or logistics capability without USA involvement and consultation.

[Molotov]

One on One fight. Germany vs. Russia during the WWII period....who wins?

m<s, stalin, Molotov....your thoughts?

Scrah, we already saw the outcome of that, Soviet Russia. Fact of the matter is, WWII has shown the majority of forces were engaged on Eastern front, between Russia and Nazi Germany, whoever won that battle won WWII. Just before Barbarossa Germany already moped up Europe and only England showed some resistance, while America was nowhere to be seen, or most likely they sent supplies. It was Germany vs Russia at that point, once Barbarossa failed, German invincibility was shattered and tide started to turn in favour of Russia as its unlimited manpower and materiel started to be the difference in the outcome. After Stalingrad it was really obvious the initiative has passed on to the Red Army, and war all but over, just a matter of moping up and overwhelming the now badly outnumbered and weakened German divisions.

[K...]

You act like your the father off Russia? Your a dumb ass Georgian riding the Marxist conspiracy to death. Your a bland sitcom rendition of Russia. You thought Russia was afraid of you but as soon add you died they were ting on your grave. Tsar Nicholas was sad but at least he a legitimate monarch.

[K...]

Russia had no air force. If Nazi air power could have bombed Russia Russia would have no defense. Russia is a defensive juggernaut on account of it's dumb empty space and the sheer number of soulless Russian men who could play meat shield convincingly.

Germany would have methodically teased Russia until Russia ed up which is what Russians always do in battle. It's so repe ive. Russia let's it's army's stagnate, Russia builds new army, Russian generals get corrupt,, Russian generals get replaced. About 1/10 Russian officer is competent. That's what you get when your criterion I'd loyalty.

So tldr, Russia on offense Germany on defense, decisive German victory. Russian defense, possible stalemate but Germany had better economy and would outlast Russia.

[Molotov]

You act like your the father off Russia? Your a dumb ass Georgian riding the Marxist conspiracy to death. Your a bland sitcom rendition of Russia. You thought Russia was afraid of you but as soon add you died they were ting on your grave. Tsar Nicholas was sad but at least he a legitimate monarch.

I can understand why you're upset, but its just fact Lord Stalin saved the world from evil Hitler and his Nazi regime. You should be thankful for your freedom today, instead of being an ignorant hater. Consider this, if Hitler beat Stalin and the Red Army, then systematically killing Jews would only be the beginning, from then on, Hitler would be able to do that at will to any nation or people.

[Molotov]

Russia had no air force. If Nazi air power could have bombed Russia Russia would have no defense. Russia is a defensive juggernaut on account of it's dumb empty space and the sheer number of soulless Russian men who could play meat shield convincingly.

Germany would have methodically teased Russia until Russia ed up which is what Russians always do in battle. It's so repe ive. Russia let's it's army's stagnate, Russia builds new army, Russian generals get corrupt,, Russian generals get replaced. About 1/10 Russian officer is competent. That's what you get when your criterion I'd loyalty.

So tldr, Russia on offense Germany on defense, decisive German victory. Russian defense, possible stalemate but Germany had better economy and would outlast Russia.

Scrah, it already happened, no need for your babbling half baked "theories". Germany had every advantage to beat Russia during Barbarossa but didn't, instead lost and got ted on by the mighty Red Army. Germany just subdued all of Europe had great armour, leadership, veteran army coming of amazing victories. While on the other hand, Russia's military leadership devastated by Lord Stalin's purges a few years earlier, Red Army somewhat outdated, and yet Hitler and the Nazis still the bed against Russia's Victorious Red Army.

[Silver&Black]

Scrah, we already saw the outcome of that, Soviet Russia. Fact of the matter is, WWII has shown the majority of forces were engaged on Eastern front, between Russia and Nazi Germany, whoever won that battle won WWII. Just before Barbarossa Germany already moped up Europe and only England showed some resistance, while America was nowhere to be seen, or most likely they sent supplies. It was Germany vs Russia at that point, once Barbarossa failed, German invincibility was shattered and tide started to turn in favour of Russia as its unlimited manpower and materiel started to be the difference in the outcome. After Stalingrad it was really obvious the initiative has passed on to the Red Army, and war all but over, just a matter of moping up and overwhelming the now badly outnumbered and weakened German divisions.

It's okay.....I just think you are badly underestimating the fact that Germany was being attacked on two fronts. One on One fight....against the full German Army....Russia gets -slapped IMO. The air superiority for Germany would tip the scale in their favor...

Don't be mad....it's just my opinion.

[Silver&Black]

With saying that...cheers to Mother Russia. Who did what or more doesn't matter to me....

The Allies won....and that Hitler took the easy way out and killed himself (what a ing pussy).

[Molotov]

It's okay.....I just think you are badly underestimating the fact that Germany was being attacked on two fronts. One on One fight....against the full German Army....Russia gets -slapped IMO. The air superiority for Germany would tip the scale in their favor...

Don't be mad....it's just my opinion.

Scrah, you could not be more wrong. What two fronts? They already stopped attacking England at start of Barbarossa. Africa was barely contested, it was the sideshow of sideshows, there were barely any divisions engaged there. The vast majority of German divisions were involved in Barbarossa attack and Germany had months to prepare for Barbarossa, it was a complete surprise to Stalin, despite the warnings. Barbarossa had everything going for it at start but eventually failed because Hitler went on 3 main axis of attack, instead of concentrating on just taking Moscow. Also the due size of Russia alot of their tanks and trucks broke down and wore out faster, winter slowed their advance for which they were ill prepared. Arrival of Siberian Red Army reserves during winter ended Barbarossa attack. Germany could never win simply because Russia would always have home ground advantage, vastly greater manpower pool, and far superior industrial capacity to make war materiel.

[Stalin]

With saying that...cheers to Mother Russia. Who did what or more doesn't matter to me....

The Allies won....and that Hitler took the easy way out and killed himself (what a ing pussy).

[Silver&Black]

My comrade...