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there is no "why." it wasn't a conscious decision.
they didn't gather at a pond caucus and decide "now we will become..."
you keep trying to assign a greater purpose to things, and that clouds your judgment.
So a fish used to eating meat could become a vegatarian? So salt water fish can now live in fresh water lakes?
So there were salt water ponds, swamps, bogs were fish lived. So they saw a reason to leave their normal living conditions and take off across land for no real reason. Having to change their diet a non factor.
Ok...
So why the need to evolve into other totally different creatures? And why did some become lizards, others snakes, some rats, some alligators and on and on .....
there is no "why." it wasn't a conscious decision.
they didn't gather at a pond caucus and decide "now we will become..."
you keep trying to assign a greater purpose to things, and that clouds your judgment.
A salamander decides to become blind and live in a cave -- why?
A fish decides it would be a lot easier to read track magazines and post YouTubes if he lived on land -- why?
I'm just trying to toss some logic out there.
So all it takes is time and any creature can evolve into something else, right? So how come we are no longer seeing any new species of animals coming from more fish leaving the seas?
So you are saying that there was a time when the only living creatures on earth were fish, right? No insects, no worms, just fish. And as time went on they started just changing, or evolving. Why don't we see animals doing that today?
So it's just a matter of time before that species evolves into something else, right? Why?
It simply makes no sense and you should be able to see that.
firstly, You asked why we no longer have fish leaving the sea. I demonstrated that we have fish with that very capability.
and as to your question, yes. evolution is always occuring. between every generation, there are small (often unnoticeable) changes. you extrapolate that with hundreds of thousands of generation, and you have a fundamental change of that species' genetic makeup. that is evolution.
You really thought that was what I was talking about? And, you really thought I/anyone doesn't know the defintion for evolution?firstly, You asked why we no longer have fish leaving the sea. I demonstrated that we have fish with that very capability.
and as to your question, yes. evolution is always occuring. between every generation, there are small (often unnoticeable) changes. you extrapolate that with hundreds of thousands of generation, and you have a fundamental change of that species' genetic makeup. that is evolution.
spurraider, sometimes guy, I just have to shake my head. You honestly thought I needed the defintion of evolution?
Wow!
So tell me, what was the last new species of animals those fish evolved into to? So you really think fish are why we have all the wide range of creatures we do today, right? You have no problems with all the different varieties of creatures all having a common ancestor. I find that amazing that you/anyone could really think that.
When does common sense come into play?
So fish became dinosaurs, right?
why do you keep asking questions that i've already answered? this conversation will never move forward if you
a) ask a question
b) get an answer
c) ask the same question
d) get the same answer
e) ask the same question yet again
I keep waiting for you to actually delve into just how did a fish become a totally different animal. You keep painting with a huge stroke, I;m looking for the real nuts and bolts.
A fish only needs time to become an elephant. Come on guy, you really believe that?
So if you saw a fish walking on land tomorrow you'd have no problems seeing another animal totally different if given enought time.....right?
Time will change everything, right?
of course.
maybe it helps if you conceptualize it differently.
if you think of it as a leap... where you just had generation of Fish > Fish > Fish > Fish > Fish >.. and suddenly BAM > Lizard... of course it seems stupid. its not like a fish laid an egg and out of it came a modern day lizard.
you shouldn't think of there being 1 special generation where they suddenly made a leap from one species to the next. abandon that line of thinking. with every single generation, small incremental changes are passed along. humans today look different than humans from 300,000 years ago. and those looked different from the ones 300,000 years before them. and then another, and another, and another.
you love to talk about how people are much more athletic today than just 80 years ago. imagine how much much farther along we were than, say, 800 years ago. or 80,000.
there is a constant chain of change that never stops. not even today. but upon thousands and millions of generations, those changes become more apparent. even in this picture below, you shouldn't think of the images as "jumps" and realize there are millions of intermediates between each of those
spurraider, I know what evolution is..ok? Yes, we arer talking about gradual change, ok? But come on, can we really see a fish evolving into a rhino under any cir stances/time? Sure, some other more advanced fish or even a lizard but to go from fish to giraffe.....how?of course.
maybe it helps if you conceptualize it differently.
if you think of it as a leap... where you just had generation of Fish > Fish > Fish > Fish > Fish >.. and suddenly BAM > Lizard... of course it seems stupid. its not like a fish laid an egg and out of it came a modern day lizard.
you shouldn't think of there being 1 special generation where they suddenly made a leap from one species to the next. abandon that line of thinking. with every single generation, small incremental changes are passed along. humans today look different than humans from 300,000 years ago. and those looked different from the ones 300,000 years before them. and then another, and another, and another.
you love to talk about how people are much more athletic today than just 80 years ago. imagine how much much farther along we were than, say, 800 years ago. or 80,000.
there is a constant chain of change that never stops. not even today. but upon thousands and millions of generations, those changes become more apparent. even in this picture below, you shouldn't think of the images as "jumps" and realize there are millions of intermediates between each of those
Explain how a fish under any cir stance/time could ever become a giraffe. I'd love to see this, school me.
if you can see how fish over time can give rise to amphibians and even lizards then you've answered your own question.
i know they're quite different, but have you every actually thought of how similar lizards are to giraffes? two eyes, two ears, a mouth. four limbs and a tail. hearts, brains, nerves, spines. it would actually be less believable if you told me there wasn't a common ancestor.
the earliest known mammals on record were small rodent-like creatures. maybe one day we'll discover an earlier mammal. but for now that's what we have to go by. you can see deer, horses, giraffes basically as enlarged, long-limbed rodents.
You know you're right? How can anyoe look at a lizard and not think giraffe?
But, how about the worm?
don't be childish. you know the point i was making there.
how about this fella
is that closer to a deer or giraffe?
vertebrates and nonvertebrates have very distinct evolutionary paths. we didn't arise from the same type of fish. insects have their own origins as well. how can you look at a scorpion and a lobster and think they don't have some ancient common ancestryBut, how about the worm?
You can see why Bible thumpers believe what they do.don't be childish. you know the point i was making there.
how about this fella
is that closer to a deer or giraffe?
vertebrates and nonvertebrates have very distinct evolutionary paths. we didn't arise from the same type of fish. insects have their own origins as well. how can you look at a scorpion and a lobster and think they don't have some ancient common ancestry
I get the fact you studied all that stuff and don't want the time spent to be waste of time, ok? But no way in it all came down like that, if ya need to believe that silliness, go for it.
It's simply too damn dumb.
lol ok
i'm glad you've figured out from your desk something that scholars and experts haven't through decades of research. we're lucky to have you.
seriously, every time we actually get into a discussion, you end up withdrawing from it and making some blanket statement like "its dumb" or "we don't know"...
I have no problems with everything evolving from a lesser whatever. Yep, that did happen and there is no debate about that. It's when ya try to sell the comon ancestor deal, then it's not going to work. You don't get an elephant and a spider having a common ancestor, that's craziness.
Really don't buy the fish thing at all, that's solid bull .
like i said, arthropods (including insects, spiders), invertebrates (like worms) and vertebrates (including elephants) don't share common land ancestors. arthropods are more closely related to crustaceans, like lobsters, crabs, shrimp, etc.
crustaceans are quite different from "bony fish" as they are referred to, which gave rise to modern vertebrates
How long have you been alive, Avante?
1 million years old?
1 billion years old?
How many new species coming out of the ocean do you expect to see in your lifetime?
No. No one ever said that. You have a poor understanding of everything.So you are saying that there was a time when the only living creatures on earth were fish, right? No insects, no worms, just fish.Are you seven years old?And as time went on they started just changing, or evolving. Why don't we see animals doing that today?
I love that GIF.
There is no evidence you know what it is tbh.
And the mud fish walking on it's fins left the ocean to become a ?
-Are you talking micro or macro Evolution?and as to your question, yes. evolution is always occuring. between every generation, there are small (often unnoticeable) changes. you extrapolate that with hundreds of thousands of generation, and you have a fundamental change of that species' genetic makeup. that is evolution.
Last edited by mouse; 04-26-2015 at 06:21 AM.
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