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That Pop went without Manu and Parker in the fourth told me enough.
Who is our best guard anymore. Chris Paul doesn't know either.
I love Manu. He's one of the several greatest Spurs ever. He is a great player and I'll celebrate when his jersey is retired and he is memorialized in Spingfield. But it is over. Can't handle, can't shoot, can't defend, can't win with him anymore.
That Pop went without Manu and Parker in the fourth told me enough.
Who is our best guard anymore. Chris Paul doesn't know either.
You probably disagree, but I thought he's been playing hard. He was one of the hardest playing guys for us in December when everybody and their mother went down. Did that take a toll? I don't know.
He's definitely not at the level he was last season, but let's not pretend the rest of the bench was also playing at the same level either.
Pop wasn't even sure about Mills a mere two weeks ago, when last season he was dropping 19pt games left and right. Same for Beli, and up to an extent Bobo...
Is it physical fatigue, mental fatigue? Hard to know. We really didn't find our groove until very late in the season, and we've been icy hot ever since.
I won't compare this team with last seasons' team. That team simply had a phenomenal drive, but not just Gino, everybody. This team is generating good to great looks, but sometimes they look human, clanking a lot.
As I said, the whole "December took a toll" was fine in January, but he hasn't shown up since then. Meanwhile, Duncan, who plays far more minutes and didn't get a 4-5 game break at any point, has been solid throughout, for the most part.
Manu has produced average numbers so far in these games, tbh. He just isn't standing out, which as I said earlier, people claim they don't expect much from a 37 years old, but deep down they do (just like with Tim), especially when Tony is struggling, as we seen last playoffs. Although in the Dallas series, there were very specific factors for that happening, like the Manu and Tiago P&R being extremely effective against Dirk, who's no longer really mobile.
It's also entirely possible he just doesn't "have it" anymore, it pains me to say it, but I think Pop will give him at least the 20 mins per game and the benefit of the doubt. Tim is a beast, tbh, I wouldn't even suggest Manu could produce the way Tim produces at 39. But we need to understand that Tim is a freak of nature, just like Manu was a complete freak last playoffs at age 36...
It's just painful watching Manu end his career playing like this. I would've rather watch him go out not playing so poorly. Anyways I wish he would at least stick around for a asst. coaching position (even though I know he said he doesn't want to). I've noticed even this year he's been coaching the young guys during timeouts.
Love to watch him play, watching our greats enabling Kawhi to grow, etc. Frankly, if he wants to come back I'd love to see another year of him with the team, playing his limited role. I know it's tricky with the cap situation for the Spurs, but we'll see.
The problem with Ginobili is that he is on the same team as Tim Duncan, and people here thinks 37 year old guys still have 2 or 3 good years on them, but thatīs only Tim.
At 37 years old most here expect a lot of him, i think it could have been posible if he could have cruised the regular season, but injuries prevented that from happening. Plus this is not the kind of team that Ginobili can be great against. Also refs donīt respect him anymore.
That said, i expect Pop to use hima lot more in LA next game and ask him and Tim to fill in the boxscore for whatever role player not scoring.
But as said, itīs not Ginobiliīs fault if he canīt be a game changer at 37, more than the team fault just for expecting too much out of older guys and giving younger guys a pass for sucking on consecutive outings. (Tiago, Danny for example, Tony not so much cause he is injured)
Call me a homer but outside a couple of turnovers I think Manu played ok (considering what you can expect from him at this stage of his career, tbh.)
Do you really love to watch him play as he is playing this year? Would you like him to come back next year and become Finley II?
Manu cannot slow down his mind. If he enters the game when we are in front (or even) then he is usually ok, managing the game. But if he enters with the Spurs being down he will try to make 10 point plays every single time down the court. When we need a score and he has the ball you can tell that his mind still sees the drive/pass, but his body just can't deliver.
This would normally be ok, I do not mind a player not being an offensive force, but the problem here is that if Manu is in
there when we need a score chances are high that the ball will be in his hands.
Perhaps Manu's retirement would force Pop to change the system. It is very hard to move away from what
has worked for so many years when the options are still there (in theory at least).
He has the lowest +/- of the whole team..
unless +/- is no longer a yardstick to grade any player in this forum..
He was but we needed more since Tiago an Danny were 0/11 or something like that.
Beautiful pass vs. Dumbass pass ratios:
Prime Ginobili: 3:1
Ginobili now: 1:5
Pop has a short leash on everyone but TP and Turnobili....and it is killing us, just like against Miami in the first Finals against them. Dude was staggering around like a drunk making horrid passes yet Pop never pulled him, not even for a minute to get the fugr's head on straight.
No excuse for it. Manu just gets out of control. He is unwilling or unable to adjust his impulsiveness and it has brought him to this point: retirement and a tad of humiliation.
Last edited by Skull-1; 04-27-2015 at 01:41 AM.
Bullsh-t. Dude makes excuses all the damned time, we just have to wait a few months for him to revise history, usually...like after the Finals loss to Miami. Dude was an excuse machine.
So so.
I thought we got great looks throughout this series, just couldn't knock the shots down. Manu and Tony's job is to get all those guys that can't create for themselves an open look, and I thought for the most part they did that.
Now if Bonner/Bobo/Green/Patty are clanking everything, then it will also look bad on the playmakers, who don't get the assist, etc.
Now it certainly looks like Manu had more in the tank to elevate his game last playoffs than this one, but I don't think he's playing badly. We as a team are not playing the way we need to play to beat these guys.
All this dumping on Ginobili makes me laugh.
In limited minutes Ginobili is still averaging 8, 5, and 5. Not shooting well and turns the ball over twice a game but is still playmaking and rebounding and hustling. Meanwhile your starting point guard playing 8 more minutes a game averages only 1 point more, shoots worse, hits under 60% of his free throws, averages about half the assists Ginobili does and has been burnt to a crisp on defense
All this dumping on Ginobili makes me laugh.
In limited minutes Ginobili is still averaging 8, 5, and 5. Not shooting well and turns the ball over twice a game but is still playmaking and rebounding and hustling. Meanwhile your starting point guard playing 8 more minutes a game averages only 1 point more, shoots worse, hits under 60% of his free throws, averages about half the assists Ginobili does and has been burnt to a crisp on defense
It's ridiculous really. Parker has reached Norris Cole levels and people want to bag on Ginobili because he's old and can't work miracles anymore lol. He's at the very least giving a great effort on both ends and unlike his point guard he actually tries to get others involved in the offense.
I'm kind of at the same point. I love Manu. But when it's time, it's time. He can't really do much. Is his salary 7 million? That's just way too much for what he can give on the court at this point.Probably my favorite player of all time. But enjoy retirement homie
I don't disagree. Parker deserves a lot of criticism. Manu competes fiercely, but when its time it's time. I love Manu, but he is 38 years old.
I am not saying he is playing badly, especially for a 37 years old sg. But since I've seen all of Manu's career with the
Spurs I can't avoid feeling sad when I see how much game he has lost. I do not love watching him try and fail.
I do agree with his current role being creating for others, but to me the best thing he did in that role was pick and roll
with our "new" bigs (Blair, Tiago, Baynes, even Ayres). Now it looks like he can no longer finish at the rim, making
his pick and rolls much easier to defend.
His passing, as good as it is, also depends a lot on other players being where they are supposed to be. We've seen
him get mad at teammates earlier this year when they were a bit more relaxed in executing the sets, which caused
some of his turnovers.
If I thought we were no longer competing for a championship I would enjoy watching Manu more. But right now it feels
like he is hurting our chances by trying to do too much on offense. It was ok for him to play outside our system when
he was younger and healthier, but right now he should not do it so often. Can the scorpion change its nature?
If you expect him to be the old Manu, then yeah, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. With our roster construction though, he's a big reason why this team still contends. Our second unit wouldn't be worth a damn if you don't have a steady ball handler like him, and frankly, at 37 he's still a better defender than Mills, Beli, etc. You can definitely see father time showing up here or there, but the reality this season is that it would be much less pronounced if the players that are supposed to carry a bigger load (because of age, rest, and experience) would actually do that. If Manu has 5+ assists, a few rebounds in his limited mins, then he did his job. That's what his role is nowadays.
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