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That 2003 team wasn't weak!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._yearly_p.html
In 2003 Duncan carried the weakest team ever to a championship over three-peat Lakers, with highest post season win share in the history of the NBA. One of the few lone wolf championships, MVP + FMVP in same season. Sop re Parker/rookie Ginobili combined for 21 points a game at 40% shooting.
12 years later, Duncan is still averaging 16 points and 11 rebounds with 57% shooting, Parker/Ginobili combine for 16 points a game at . . . 35% shooting.
Honestly Pop/Duncan is so incredibly underrated for doing so much with so little. You just don't build the core of a championship team with 28th and 57th picks. Parker/Ginobili had great years, they are overachievers with huge heart, but they are very very very far from sidekicks of multiple championship teams like Pippen, Kobe, Gasol, Wade/Bosh, etc. As much as Duncan achieved, I wish prime Duncan played with other top 10/20 players of the league. The last time he had that was in 1999 with near-prime David Robinson and they went 15-2 in the post season.
Last edited by hitmantb; 05-02-2015 at 01:50 PM.
That 2003 team wasn't weak!
2003 team - Duncan < any other championship team - one player.
Worst thread ever
Considering the style of play and the amount of summer play that Parker and Manu have done, it's as unsurprising as is theoretically possible to be
But I agree with your thread le.
People that think the 2003 team was weak obviously did not watch the 2001 team. Duncan carried that team to the best record in the West and the Western Conference Finals. That was impressive.
How is it amazing if Manu is only a year older and has played countless international tournaments? And not to mention his crazy playing style.
Porker.. well, its Porker
Prime Manu was more than good enough to be a #2. Enrique was easily replaceable, never that great to begin with.
Terrible thread ...
Don't you think Tony and Manu helped Timmy prolonged his career?
Without those 2 taking less money and carrying the team offensively Timmy would have retired long ago imo...
Tony and Manu dominating games allowed Pop to rest Duncan, not only in PT but also in term of offensive load...
That 2002 team was even worse IMO! DA the year before was alot better than the old Steve Smith and they had AD running the PG! Tony was a 19 year old rookie and they had Cherokee Parks starting some playoff games. He lead that team far and got 58 wins out of them! Who else could have done that?
OP you must of forgot Tim is not human it seems, not fair to compare anyone to him because it makes them look bad.
I think we all knew Tony would wear out before Tim and Manu did (in terms of effectiveness at age).
Tony always relied on quickness and speed/agility to beat everybody in the paint... Timmy relies on fundamentals, and Ginobili has a lot more of an outside game than Parker. I still think Tony is dealing with injuries, but I can't imagine someone is surprised timmy can play for longer than the other two.
Dude, Parker is not done. He has a sore Achilles. Too many uninformed people have no idea how that takes away your speed and lift. Advanced stats showed he was still one of the fastest guards in the NBA. He has been knocking down those mid range jumpers at a high percentage for the last 6 years. He's short on everything bc he has no lift, which is a big indicator of players leaving their shots short. It was just an injury he's tried to play through bc his team needs him. Unfortunately, the injury zapped him this year just like other years where Manu had those injuries and everyone said he was done, and then he healed and had rebound years. At 38, Manu is done being an elite player, though he can still be a useful one in limited minutes. Parker will have another two or three years at a high level if he can get healthy.
You think 40 year old Duncan isn't sore all over? Enrique isn't dealing with anything that other players in their mid 30s and over aren't. He just doesn't have anything to fall back on since he was always just a speed reliant, scoring PG.
Exaggerating the severity is just to save face. He's never been able to man up to bad performances in the playoffs without throwing out the injury excuse.
Is not that amazing considering Manu is almost the same age than Tim and SG run a lot more than bigs.
Parker is 32 so it applies to him.
Not even close. A sore Achilles is not just bumps and bruises. When Tim had plantar faciitis several years ago, he looked bad. Not all ailments are equal. Added to all that is that the bigs in the NBA mostly suck such that a highly skilled big man with one bad knee can still dominate the raw bigs of today. If 39 year old Duncan was playing a 25 year old Shaq, Robinson, or Hakeen, he'd get his butt kicked. Point guard is the deepest pool of talent in the NBA and significant injuries like an Achilles is a serious disadvantage. The best player on the Clips is Paul, he'd be a handful if Parker was 100%. The fact he is injured only makes a tough task impossible.
Yes.
Add to that:
1) Ginobili is almost the same age, so that's not surprising that they're both winding down near the same time.
2) Big men can be tall when they're old. Guys that rely on their speed/quickness have a much more difficult time. I am the same height I was when I was 20, but I am fraction of my quickness. Another thing that is not surprising at all.
3) They both spent a lot of their time driving into a lane occupied by guys much bigger than themselves. They were not, primarily, jumpshooters. They hit the ground a lot. They sacrificed their bodies for years. Not that Duncan didn't, but in a different manner. It is no surprise to see it take a toll, at any given time.
Parker is what, 32? He is a little younger than Duncan/Manu, but he's not exactly a spring chicken. I would say that the only thing surprising is seeing Tony dwindle after such an MVP attention-getting year just two years ago, but, again, injuries can take their toll at any moment, so it still doesn't surprise me.
Parker has suffered hamstring issues, achilles issues, ankle issues, and back issues all within the last 30 days. Some of these have lingered all year, and are recurring from last year. I think he's a bad team-mate and human being for the Erin Barry fiasco, but he's given us a of an effort in the realm of basketball.
Have we had a better point guard in the last 40 years? I don't believe so.
Manu's longevity is actually more surprising than Duncan's. Duncan plays a game that easily translates to older age whereas Manu had to make a transition. In addition, PFs usually age better than SGs due to the nature of the position.
Tony's apparent decline is concerning, though it could just be an anomaly this season. His game has always struck me as not translating well to older age, though. A let of guys do wear out in the early 30s, so it really wouldn't be surprising, though. He's been in the NBA since he was 19, right?
Last edited by superjames1992; 05-02-2015 at 05:17 PM.
Manu and Tony both have to rely on their athleticism. The fact that Manu has made it this long is amazing
Exactly. SORE achilles. Just bc an achilles tear is severe doesn't make his soreness more than what it is. I'm sure Duncan suffers from sore knees, doesn't mean I'm going to exxagerate the severity and equate it to ACL injuries.
C'mon now... TP was a Leonard free throw choke away from taking home that finals MVP in 2013.. the dude was sensational... and was a top MVP pick by the media..
I'm glad Duncan never played with another top 10 player, because it forces people to acknowledge his greatness. It's precisely because he never did that people realize his greatness. If he had played with a Kobe or Tmac, people would point to that and say he had massive help.
That's the only year he was great. If he had been that good for more years he would have my respect. Even then, he faltered when being guarded by LeBron (no shame in that though) and that was around the time when the system had evolved to help shoulder the load. Prime Timmy and prime Manu never had such a sophisticated system, it was their individual greatness that got us the mid 00s les.
He did play w/ TMac, well, they were on the same team, anyway, L O L. Sure did root for him to make a basket.
Contrary to popular belief, it seems, Tony Parker was terrible in the 2013 Finals. Yes, he had a good playoffs overall, but his defense was terrible and his offense was very inefficient in the 2013 NBA Finals versus Miami. Let's take a look at the stats.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...13_finals.html
First of all, we see 15.7 PPG, which isn't bad, but not spectacular. Duncan was the leading scorer for the Spurs in the series. Parker's FG percentage really stands out, though, at an embarrassingly bad 41.2%, which is especially poor for a PG that barely takes threes (he only took 7 of them, making 2). His FG percentage was worst on the team aside from Bonner and Mills (neither of which played very much, particularly Mills). His FT shooting was also surprisingly poor at 72.7%, which was only better than Leonard when you consider players who actually played (Blair and Mills were also worse, but both shot a combined 8 FTs and neither was in the regular rotation). Moving on to advanced stats, his effective FG percentage was even worst comparatively at 42.2%, worst on the team among players in the rotation and worst on the team overall aside from Mills. This is especially startling as his usage rate (25.4%) was highest on the team aside from Blair, who was not in the regular rotation. For comparison among regular rotation players, his eFG% was over three percent worse than the next closest regular rotation player (Splitter at 44.8%) and over seven percent worse than Ginobili (49.2%), who is considered to have had a terrible series. Finally, his offensive rating was 103 while his defensive rating was a 113, worst among rotation players aside from Gary Neal (115) and Boris Diaw (116, though he made up for it with an ORTG of 116). Parker's ORTG-DRTG differential (-10) was worst among rotation players aside from Gary Neal (-15) and Tiago Splitter (-16).
To add fuel to the fire, he shot a combined 10/35 (28.5%) in San Antonio's two chances to close out (games 6 and 7).
In his defense, he was decent distributing the basketball with 6.4 assists per game and an AST/TO ratio of 3.0 (45 assists to 15 turnovers).
Duncan would have, or at least should have, won Finals MVP in 2013, if the Spurs hadn't choked.
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