Hornets: Messi

[DAF86]

And I don't have respect for Baseball comparatively, I actually have stated many times before that I hold Futbol players above Baseball players. But Football is a different animal. And not all DL/OL are fat. I can point out numerous physically fit OL/DL.

No, it isn't. I might give you basketball but your average NFL player isn't more athletic than your average soccer player, not even close.

[spurraider21]

It does mean that to sustain that at a high level for that long, you have to be at a certain athletic level. I don't dispute it's no proof of athletic superiority, but it does indicate that there's an elevated athletic baseline that's higher than other professional sports.

distance run is an arbitrary baseline to use... there are many things involved in athletics outside of distance running

[DAF86]

distance run is an arbitrary baseline to use... there are many things involved in athletics outside of distance running

Soccer players are above average in pretty much all of those, that's why they are some of the best athletes in the World.

[Venti Quattro]

Soccer players are above average in pretty much all of those, that's why they are some of the best athletes in the World.

The coaches are a reflection of the sport's fitness levels.... Basketball and football have coaches which are pretty fit, which reflects that both sports require a lot of fitness to be able to participate in.

American Football and Baseball...

[spurraider21]

cristiano is considered to be an elite athlete in the soccer world, and his vertical jump is something like 30 inches

[Spur-Addict]

No, it isn't. I might give you basketball but your average NFL player isn't more athletic than your average soccer player, not even close.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. If your argument is centered around OL/DT and some QBs that's not going to cut it, as they are a small fraction of a Football team. There are so many positions that more often than not have superb athletes. DBs/LBs/RBs/WR's/DE's. TE's are probably 50/50.

[DAF86]

We'll just have to agree to disagree. If your argument is centered around OL/DT and some QBs that's not going to cut it, as they are a small fraction of a Football team. There are so many positions that more often than not have superb athletes. DBs/LBs/RBs/WR's/DE's. TE's are probably 50/50.

Let's count: 5 ofensive linemen plus the QB (you know the most important position on the sport), I'll play nice so let's pretend TE's, FB's, RB's and WR's are all elite athletes (which we know it's rarely the case but well I don't need more). That's 6 out of 11 players that are below average in terms of elite athleticism. In football every ing player (with the exception of maybe the keeper) needs to be above average in every ing athletic trait to be able to play at an elite level. There's just no argument to be had.

[Spur-Addict]

Let's count: 5 ofensive linemen plus the QB (you know the most important position on the sport), I'll play nice so let's pretend TE's, FB's, RB's and WR's are all elite athletes (which we know it's rarely the case but well I don't need more). That's 6 out of 11 players that are below average in terms of elite athleticism. In football every ing player (with the exception of maybe the keeper) needs to be above average in every ing athletic trait to be able to play at an elite level. There's just no argument to be had.

That's ONE side of the ball. 22 players play consistently and there's a 53 man roster. There certainly is an argument to be had

[DAF86]

That's ONE side of the ball. 22 players play consistently and there's a 53 man roster. There certainly is an argument to be had

OK, let's bring defensive linemen, linebackers, kickers and punters into the equation. The % of above average athletes would still be less than the almost 100% soccer matches have. And let's not get into the discussion of having to use around 22 different players to play just 11 minutes of actual playing time vs 11 players for the 50 something minutes of actual playing time that soccer has.

[Venti Quattro]

cristiano is considered to be an elite athlete in the soccer world, and his vertical jump is something like 30 inches

You don't need a 39" vertical leap to be successful in football. What you need is very good foot-eye coordination and athleticism to overpower strong defenses

[testies]

Who cares about athleticism? Spurs are proof that skill > monkeyballing..

Bottom line is : soccer you have to play it since you are like 4 years old to even be in a squad rotation of any team playing in any leagues first division

in American sports you hear about guys picking up the sport in high school and becoming pro

Basketball player from Brazil Fab Melo started playing in college and made it to the NBA

skill level in soccer and depth is 100, no wait, 10012390213921093821093 times better than any american sport

[ElNono]

cristiano is considered to be an elite athlete in the soccer world, and his vertical jump is something like 30 inches

[spurraider21]

OK, let's bring defensive linemen, linebackers, kickers and punters into the equation. The % of above average athletes would still be less than the almost 100% soccer matches have. And let's not get into the discussion of having to use around 22 different players to play just 11 minutes of actual playing time vs 11 players for the 50 something minutes of actual playing time that soccer has.

defensive ends are some of the most athletic freaks on the planet when you consider the amount of weight they need to keep on to match up with offensive linemen

[spurraider21]

yeah i've seen that. i got the 30 inches from what i had read on a few different sites. that snapshot is taken from a lower vantage point which makes it tough to tell exactly how high his head is in relation to the post

[ElNono]

But yeah, you don't need a huge vertical leap for that sport, just like you don't need to be 7 feet tall... although, good goalies do normally fit those two criteria...

[ElNono]

It's actually pretty crazy when you get to go watch an NBA game live, how skinny/lanky the players really are. TV is really deceiving on that.

[DAF86]

defensive ends are some of the most athletic freaks on the planet when you consider the amount of weight they need to keep on to match up with offensive linemen

So?

[Spur-Addict]

OK, let's bring defensive linemen, linebackers, kickers and punters into the equation. The % of above average athletes would still be less than the almost 100% soccer matches have. And let's not get into the discussion of having to use around 22 different players to play just 11 minutes of actual playing time vs 11 players for the 50 something minutes of actual playing time that soccer has.

You can't bring time into it because Futbol doesn't have nearly the level of physical exertion strength wise. Try having to exert the level of strength every play and talk to someone about minutes. Try being a 200lbs DB coming up to make a tackle and having to get by a 300LB OL. And everyone sees the ball get passed back and forth, then waiting for an eventual opening to strike in Futbol. You make it seem as if they sprint consistently the entire match.

You're grouping all defensive lineman together which is not reasonable. I'll grant you the category of DT, but DE is completely off limits. As are LBs, as I'll take a lot of LBs up against Futbol players athletically any day of the week. And you're underrating Kickers.

What needs to happen here is I think you need to think outside the realm of the game of Futbol, and think broadly about athleticism. If we think broadly in terms of athletic measurements I can show you the raw data of players who've been to the combine. It's all readily available, even the ones you think are not so athletic.

How many times can Messi bench press 225? How fast is his 40 yard dash? What's his vertical? What's his broad jump? What's his 20 yard shuttle? What's his 60 yard shuttle? I bet if we start looking at broad based athletic numbers your Futbol players won't match up.

[Spur-Addict]

So?

Speed, weight, agility and power combination is what he's trying to convey to you. Same with most LBs. Something that is not in the game of Futbol on that level, whereas there as numerous players with traits of Futbol players in the game of Football. I'm going to bed. I'll catch up with you all soon. Will continue this discussion. I have to be up relatively soon.

[spurraider21]

So?

its easier to be quick and agile if you're 5'9 and weigh 170 pounds

when you have to be quick and agile at 6'3 280, its an entirely different level of athlete

[Infinite_limit]

Who cares about athleticism? Spurs are proof that skill > monkeyballing..

Bottom line is : soccer you have to play it since you are like 4 years old to even be in a squad rotation of any team playing in any leagues first division

in American sports you hear about guys picking up the sport in high school and becoming pro

Basketball player from Brazil Fab Melo started playing in college and made it to the NBA

skill level in soccer and depth is 100, no wait, 10012390213921093821093 times better than any american sport

[benefactor]

Let's count: 5 ofensive linemen plus the QB (you know the most important position on the sport), I'll play nice so let's pretend TE's, FB's, RB's and WR's are all elite athletes (which we know it's rarely the case but well I don't need more). That's 6 out of 11 players that are below average in terms of elite athleticism. In football every ing player (with the exception of maybe the keeper) needs to be above average in every ing athletic trait to be able to play at an elite level. There's just no argument to be had.

You actually have to pretty elite athletically to play on the O-Line in the pros. The endurance level that men with frames that size have is impressive as well. As spurraider said, it's a different type of athleticism...but not any less elite.

Take a guy like Duane Brown. The combination of quickness and strength he possesses at 6'4, 300lbs is something only a small percentage of people in the world that are his size have.

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-medi...3-c9d588df33d2

[Jodelo]

Is that the got who kicked it 20 feet over the goal in the WC Final?

Yes Instead of making a cross for a good chance, going for heroball.

[The Gemini Method]

Did you go to that when it was in LA? I remember Jim Rome saying they had to give tickets away for free when you bought gas and like that.

I remember that. I did go to the USA vs. Brazil game where the dude destroyed the American player with the elbow. We had to pay for those tickets but I was like only 9 or something

[DAF86]

You can't bring time into it because Futbol doesn't have nearly the level of physical exertion strength wise. Try having to exert the level of strength every play and talk to someone about minutes. Try being a 200lbs DB coming up to make a tackle and having to get by a 300LB OL. And everyone sees the ball get passed back and forth, then waiting for an eventual opening to strike in Futbol. You make it seem as if they sprint consistently the entire match.

You're grouping all defensive lineman together which is not reasonable. I'll grant you the category of DT, but DE is completely off limits. As are LBs, as I'll take a lot of LBs up against Futbol players athletically any day of the week. And you're underrating Kickers.

What needs to happen here is I think you need to think outside the realm of the game of Futbol, and think broadly about athleticism. If we think broadly in terms of athletic measurements I can show you the raw data of players who've been to the combine. It's all readily available, even the ones you think are not so athletic.

How many times can Messi bench press 225? How fast is his 40 yard dash? What's his vertical? What's his broad jump? What's his 20 yard shuttle? What's his 60 yard shuttle? I bet if we start looking at broad based athletic numbers your Futbol players won't match up.

Speed, weight, agility and power combination is what he's trying to convey to you. Same with most LBs. Something that is not in the game of Futbol on that level, whereas there as numerous players with traits of Futbol players in the game of Football. I'm going to bed. I'll catch up with you all soon. Will continue this discussion. I have to be up relatively soon.

its easier to be quick and agile if you're 5'9 and weigh 170 pounds

when you have to be quick and agile at 6'3 280, its an entirely different level of athlete

Maybe the most athletic NFL player is more athletic than the most athletic soccer player, maybe I don't know. But what I do know for sure is that if you make a competion of athletic traits between all NFL players and all soccer players the soccer players would win in a landslide.