Cavs: casual fan doesnt give lebron any credit or praise

[Infinite_limit]

Less talented Offenses > No one playing Defense

90s > Current

[ambchang]

They were making the game easier for DK once his gambling suspension expired... they also banned handchecking during DK's suspension

Thanks to Stern, DK went from a 28% shooter from the regular 3-point line to 42.7% and 37.4% in back-to-back years. Then when they brought back the old three-point line, DK shot a pathetic 23.8% from three. MVPippen also had career years from beyond the arc with the shortened line.

Hand checking was banned, but it was never seriously enforced until the early 00s. To clarify, Jordan and Pippen were still hand-checking their man like crazy and was never called for a foul, but the opposition would get a foul when hand-checking them. That said, it has been like that ever since Jordan's 1st ring, so nothing really changed, except the league now made it a rule.

As for 3 pt shooting, Jordan had a few seasons of 30%+ 3pt shooting with the longer line. It was never really part of his strength, and he was very selective about it.

That said, the league really didn't embrace the 3 pt line until the Rockets really proved that you can use it to great advantage with their two les. It was known as a gimmicky shot back in the day, and teams were only using situationally, or make up the score at the end of games. Not many teams were actually using 3pt shots as an integral part of their offense except those Nuggets teams that weren't overly good until the Rockets showed the way.

That's what made Jordan so good, he plays to his strengths, and plays it well.

The NBA-average FG% actually didn't change that much from right before they shortened the line (it was .466 in 1993-94, while during the shortened line years, it was .466, .462 and .455) and was significantly better than the years following the return of the old line - the league didn't even crack .450 again on average until the 2005-06 season.

That being said, the stated goal of increasing scoring didn't end up happening (the league average PPG was only 100.8 during the three seasons with the shortened line compared to 105.6 in the three seasons before they shortened it), but let's not pretend like that was the real reason they changed it.

The real reason was for the league to increase scoring, and it back fired. Jordan was out of the league, and there wasn't any indication that he'd be coming back when the rules were changed.

[Malik Hairston]

But that's what I'm saying about skills diminishing. Even with the paint being packed and not having that defensive 3 seconds bull Pippen and Jordan could score on the low block because they had actual SKILL. Look at the SGs and SFs today. They play 3 pt chucker ball because they don't have the skill to score any other way.

What SG/SF today can do this on the low block when the paint is packed? They have defenders in their lap and defenders clogging the paint but it doesn't matter when you have footwork and counters. Jordan, Pippen, Penny, his teammate Nick Anderson, Mitch Richmond, Glen Rice, Steve Smith, etc all had post games in their arsenal to go along with their outside games.

I could find the same number of gifs from this season alone, probably in just 1 month of action..

The 90s was also full of low-skill goons that were only employed because they would provide hard fouls and a physical presence..a lot of Kendrick Perkins..

[Phillip]

But to dismiss a whole decade of hoops because they didnt utilize advanced metrics or complex defensive schemes is foolish and short-sighted.

No one dismissed a whole decade. I simply stated it was the weakest of the past 30-40 years. Partly because of talent, and partly because of a change in style, in which defense became much more dominant, and offenses struggled to adjust. Offenses were flat out ugly in the 90's overall.

You guys make it sound like the d-league but when in fact outside of the top 8-10 teams the rest of the today's NBA would be considered ty no matter what decade they were in ...being a better dribbler or taking more 3's doesn't make a ty team good.

Who made it sound like the D-League? I think the only one who overblew anything here was you, by overblowing the negativity of the 90s in my post. I never said anything along those lines, or remotely close to it. I stated that the 90's was the worst decade of basketball in a while, and pointed out the hypocrisy of 90's fanboys.

this year's Lakers would struggle to beat the worst Laker team of the 90's for example ...

That is an absolutely terrible, senseless argument, and you know it. Trying to compare eras with such criteria would be ridiculous, as I could make the counterpoint that the 00's are better than the 90's and 80's because of the fact that the worst 90's and 80's era Spurs teams would struggle to beat the worst 00's era Spurs team.

[Phillip]

I could find the same number of gifs from this season alone, probably in just 1 month of action..

The 90s was also full of low-skill goons that were only employed because they would provide hard fouls and a physical presence..a lot of Kendrick Perkins..

[hitmanyr2k]

I could find the same number of gifs from this season alone, probably in just 1 month of action..

The 90s was also full of low-skill goons that were only employed because they would provide hard fouls and a physical presence..a lot of Kendrick Perkins..

You mean like these from the so-called best player in the league in his 9th season How long did it take that MF to learn just BASIC post moves? Look at all that in room to work with. That's today's NBA skill level in a nuts .

[Killakobe81]

No one dismissed a whole decade. I simply stated it was the weakest of the past 30-40 years. Partly because of talent, and partly because of a change in style, in which defense became much more dominant, and offenses struggled to adjust. Offenses were flat out ugly in the 90's overall.



Who made it sound like the D-League? I think the only one who overblew anything here was you, by overblowing the negativity of the 90s in my post. I never said anything along those lines, or remotely close to it. I stated that the 90's was the worst decade of basketball in a while, and pointed out the hypocrisy of 90's fanboys.



That is an absolutely terrible, senseless argument, and you know it. Trying to compare eras with such criteria would be ridiculous, as I could make the counterpoint that the 00's are better than the 90's and 80's because of the fact that the worst 90's and 80's era Spurs teams would struggle to beat the worst 00's era Spurs team.

Phillip you and I are usually pretty cool ...so ill chalk this up as a misunderstanding. I was speaking of the 90's bashing on this site as a whole ... not at you specifically. Yes, I quoted you because I thought your opening line was a cool jumping off point but I was too lazy to cut it and edit it. you never dismissed the decade but plenty of others have and they knew who they are ...so I didnt think that needed clarifying but apparently it did. Either way sorry if you thought t I was challenging you.

We may disagree but I do absolutely believe that not only would the Sedale, Peeler and Sam Perkins 90's Lakers beat the 2014-2015 Lakers but I think they could have beat all the non playoff teams except maybe OKc and probably a few of the bottom playoff East teams as well. Maybe I am wrong but that is what I think. And you may not like to compare eras and that is your choice but I dont see any need to attack that .. how is that any different than the 1000s of times people on here say that the 72 win Bulls would crush the 2013 Heat? or 2009 Lakers or 2014 Spurs? People compare eras all the time ...

And again I already said that the 90's was a diluted era. My original premise that folks on here overblow how bad it was ...acting as those teams couldn't compete when we see ty basketball every night in the 2015 playoffs.

Phillip I would have thought "you guys" would have made it obvious I was not speaking to you directly ...

[Phillip]

Phillip you and I are usually pretty cool ...so ill chalk this up as a misunderstanding. I was speaking of the 90's bashing on this site as a whole ... not at you specifically. Yes, I quoted you because I thought your opening line was a cool jumping off point but I was too lazy to cut it and edit it. you never dismissed the decade but plenty of others have and they knew who they are ...so I didnt think that needed clarifying but apparently it did. Either way sorry if you thought t I was challenging you.

We may disagree but I do absolutely believe that not only would the Sedale, Peeler and Sam Perkins 90's Lakers beat the 2014-2015 Lakers but I think they could have beat all the non playoff teams except maybe OKc and probably a few of the bottom playoff East teams as well. Maybe I am wrong but that is what I think. And you may not like to compare eras and that is your choice but I dont see any need to attack that .. how is that any different than the 1000s of times people on here say that the 72 win Bulls would crush the 2013 Heat? or 2009 Lakers or 2014 Spurs? People compare eras all the time ...

And again I already said that the 90's was a diluted era. My original premise that folks on here overblow how bad it was ...acting as those teams couldn't compete when we see ty basketball every night in the 2015 playoffs.

Phillip I would have thought "you guys" would have made it obvious I was not speaking to you directly ...

If that is the case, then you should have plenty of "you guys" posts for all the 80s and 90s fanboys who all but state that 80's and 90's basketball is flawless, while 00's and 10's basketball is absolutely no good on any level whatsoever.

[Phillip]

You mean like these from the so-called best player in the league in his 9th season How long did it take that MF to learn just BASIC post moves? Look at all that in room to work with. That's today's NBA skill level in a nuts .

for every one of these, we can find one of MJ or Pippen doing the same stuff, and for every one of MJ and Pippen utilizing good footwork or finishing well, we can find plenty of Lebron, Durant, and Carmello doing the same. You are idiotic beyond comprehension.

[Killakobe81]

If that is the case, then you should have plenty of "you guys" posts for all the 80s and 90s fanboys who all but state that 80's and 90's basketball is flawless.

Flawless I am definitely a 80's fan, but the lack of athleticism especially at 2 guard is hilarious to watch. It's part of why Jordan a great athlete for any era but was such a phenom in the mid 80's. There are definitely many athletes on his level in the 2000's plus : Lebron, vince, Kobe, Blake, Dwight pre-injury Grant Hill were all on par with MJ as far running leaping jumping ... While Jordan at times was defended by Ainge, Dennis Johnson (great defender but not athlete), Ehlo, Majerle, Dumars (great defender OK athlete) while Lebron gets defended by Kiwi, Jimmy Butler, PG etc. I get all of that ... but I loved the Bird/Magic era the players (stars) were great and the bigs could actually catch and post up.

Again just saying the 90's was bad but not as bad as some on here claim, that it is ...

[hitmanyr2k]

for every one of these, we can find one of MJ or Pippen doing the same stuff, and for every one of MJ and Pippen utilizing good footwork or finishing well, we can find plenty of Lebron, Durant, and Carmello doing the same. You are idiotic beyond comprehension.

Bull I can't believe you even mentioned Durant...king of 3 point chucker ball. When that MF wasn't being denied the ball by Tony Allen he was standing on the perimeter like a statue watching Westbrook have his turn being ISO chucker. How Durant doesn't have a bonafide post game is beyond me. He's damn near 7 foot with an outrageous wingspan. A jumphook from him would be impossible to block but he'd rather chuck 25+ foot shots. That idiot let Chris Paul of all people "D" him up in the playoffs

[Malik Hairston]

let's post random gifs of highlights

[Malik Hairston]

mid-range jump shots
2nd rate perimeter stars
goons
players that can't shoot 3-pointers

[hitmanyr2k]

let's post random gifs of highlights

I say SG/SF and this MF posts gifs of PFs

The said thing is the SGs and SFs of the 90's have better post moves than the big men these days. Dwight Howard being the best big this weak ass era has to offer. Pippen's post game alone s on most big men today.

[Malik Hairston]

I'll post some perimeter post-ups for you if you want, but perimeter players that post-up are largely pointless and overrated in basketball..

Why would I want my perimeter player posting up and hurting my spacing when I could have him shooting 3s or penetrating to draw fouls or dish to shooters?

Kobe is as good as any perimeter player in league history at posting up, it didn't stop him from being relatively inefficient at basketball in the last few years in the new era of basketball..same with Dwyane Wade, a great post player that killed his team in the Finals with his post-ups and mid-range 2s..he was scoring fine vs. the Spurs in the post and in the middle, but the Heat were astronomically better when Lebron was surrounded by 3-point shooting perimeter players like Allen and Battier instead..

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

He was playing that '90s style of basketball that mainstream fans claim to love so much.

If only he could shoot... DK wouldn't have shot 10-30 in that game, tbh..

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I'll post some perimeter post-ups for you if you want, but perimeter players that post-up are largely pointless and overrated in basketball..

Kawhi Leonard?

[Malik Hairston]

Kawhi Leonard?

Only works well for the offense when Diaw is on the floor with him, as Duncan/Splitter kill spacing..that's what the 90s was, terrible spacing and clogged lanes..

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Only works well for the offense when Diaw is on the floor with him, as Duncan/Splitter kill spacing..that's what the 90s was, terrible spacing and clogged lanes..

Only shows how great MJ was to thrive with that style.

Clogged lanes? MJ would be like..

[Malik Hairston]

Dad Killer is a good player, don't get me wrong, but his surroundings and cir stances played a large part in his success..we saw how the 1994 Bulls did without him, and we saw what he looked like outside of his comfort zone in 2002 and 2003 despite playing in a historically bad Eastern Conference(even worse than today's East)..

[LkrFan]

No, 3 point chucker ball belongs to your era. That's all players know how to do these days. Drive to the rim or throw up a 3 point heave lol. The skills in this league have ridiculously diminished.

True or False:

Prime Pip could guard Prime LeHype without a double team.

[Phillip]

True or False:

Prime Pip could guard Prime LeHype without a double team.

False as .

[ImDaNuts]

People love to hate Lebron. Actually had one guy tell me that if Lebron doesn't ring again he isn't a HOFer

[DMC]

The league is full of players that you cannot guard without double team. Pippen could not guard prime LBJ solo, no way in . He might get some good moments but James would drop 35/8/10 on him.

[ducks]

15 turnovers 2 games but that is ok?
Gets hurt trying to kill rose gets called for o foul
Now claims I am hurt