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5 = 5
Stats never lie, right? In the last 5 seconds... game on the line (go-ahead shot) in the 4th or OT ...who do you want to take that shot?
Well look, Kobe is at the bottom of the list but let's take a look at who joins him, shall we?
Top 10
1. The King (just added another)
2. Rashard Lewis (mostly off 2009)
3. Dirk (nuff said)
4. MWP (The last one he hit won a le vs. Celts)
5. Hedu Turkeyglue (ha) again 2009 was kind
6. CP3 (down go the spurs)
7. Dfish (my nicca)
8. Dame Lillard (tlong's boy buried them Rox)
9. JKidd (my other nicca)
10. Boris (the most clutch spur?)
Now the bottom ...
1. Ray Allen (spurs disagree)
2. Shaq ("i make 'em when the count!!!)
3. JET (like Allen and Kobe known as clutch but numbers disagree)
4. Chauncey (Mr. Big shot's clutch reputation is exaggerated as much as Kobe's)
5. Courtney Lee (without his miss we may have struggled vs dwight in 2009)
6. Tony Parker (haters on here gon hate ...)
7. Rip Hamilton (2nd Piston)
8. GINOBILEEE!! (biggest shocker on here for me tbh)
9. Timmy (the greatest player of his generation is just above ...)
10. Kobe (Just like I always said these two are close but Duncan still above him here ...)
Thoughts? To read the article click here
And Spur fan dont run from this ... Kobe isn't clutch so what does that say about the big 3?
Lakerfan are we ready to accept that Kobe is less clutch than Hedu?
Last edited by Killakobe81; 05-12-2015 at 06:27 PM.
5 = 5
sure, because his team is almost always down
Huh? So a Kobestan can make that same argument. I admit at first I was being funny but if we take the most clutch moment in a basketball game ... Some of the best players from the best teams with some of the GOAT coaches are at the bottom of the list. Some here argue numbers are more trust worthy than the eye test so ... Shaqobe, the Spurs big 3, Rip and Chauncey are not clutch when it matters most ...fact or fiction? Or do you prefer one of those last 5 minute stats?
either way there is a danger in looking at stats alone ... but many on here do. Others just say kiss the ring got ...
Again, I did not create this article or theory I just posted it. Agree, disagree or do you want to divulge your own clutch criteria?
I know someone will yell ... sample size! And they have a point. But Lebron, Kobe, Manu and Tim all have had at least 8 attempts at this.
Kobe was the worst ...
Duncan and Gino right ahead of him ...
Lebron, by far the best ...
Is he the most clutch player since the 2000's? Heck, since MJ?
Last edited by Killakobe81; 05-12-2015 at 06:27 PM.
Parkers game 1 2013 finals winner doesn't qualify?
Not sure, good question. Was it on the last 5 seconds? IIRC it may have been just outside of that ...and if it is that narrow does even MJ over Russell qualify?
and I think the MWP shot was the PHX putback not the finals shot which I dont think was in the last 5 ...it's a flawed criteria ...but it is what ESPN is rolling with.
BTW clutch Lebron has 16 points 3 boards and a steal in the game right now but a 0 in plus/minus at the end of the first what what a crappy stat ...
Was it Raven who said that it was good individual stat indicator? LOL
That is a ing terrible definition of clutch. So Robert Horry's Game 5 shot against the Pistons in 2005 wouldn't count. Yeah, that definitely wasn't a clutch shot.
Talk to Neil PaneThat is a ing terrible definition of clutch. So Robert Horry's Game 5 shot against the Pistons in 2005 wouldn't count. Yeah, that definitely wasn't a clutch shot.
I do think ties count too ... but don't shoot messengerThat is a ing terrible definition of clutch. So Robert Horry's Game 5 shot against the Pistons in 2005 wouldn't count. Yeah, that definitely wasn't a clutch shot.
It splashed with 6 seconds left on the clock. Not running from it, just dismissing the metric used to define the lists.
Is this a list of total shots made? that, let's look at the shooting percentage in those situations. Duncan is toward the top of that list.
Shut up. He couldn't even solve a squirt like Battier.
5.2 seconds and the Spurs were already up 2, so it doesn't count
criteria, even though I love anything clutch-related where Kirby is dead last
I'd define clutch as last 24 seconds 4th quarter or OT with a 1 possession game, tbh
Last edited by Splits; 05-12-2015 at 07:36 PM.
% is factored that is part of why Kobe is so low
When you're talking about 16 years or more in the league and a sample size of 8 attempts over that time, you're cherry picking the out of it. The figures don't lie, but liars figure.
Don't know why KK would expect a post-playing big to have a great <5 seconds shooting percentage at the end of gamesThe end of games are usually guard/wing time, since you don't want to risk turnovers and such trying to feed the post.
The fact that Kirbs lags behind a post-playing big in this category is somewhat pathetic, though.
Better comparison would be the "clutch time stat" (last 5 minutes of the game, no team ahead by more than 5 points).
In the playoffs, Duncan shoots .455 during "clutch time," and this just takes into account his scoring and not all the big defensive plays he's contributed in that regard. Fun fact: Duncan was 6-10 during clutch time during this year's playoffs.
Kobe shoots .399. To be fair, this doesn't take into account Kobe's made FTs during that time from being intentionally fouled, and it's not a terrible percentage for a guard in that situation, as most players, even bigs, see a drop off in shooting % during that period.
Lol at "most clutch playoff shooter"
No such thing as clutch.
Its a term idiots use, tbh..
the spurs were up when he made that shot, so its not considered a game winner
Not a great metric to use imo.. I'd go with something like PER in last 5 minutes for games within a 5 point spread.
Yeah it kinda depends on your interpretation of when clutch time starts and this is just go-ahead or tying baskets with 5 secs or left? No the same imo
<2 minutes in the 4th quarter or in OT, within 6 points (2 possessions) is a better criteria for clutch time imo
I actually agree ... Said the same to Amb it's really about coaching then execution ....but ...
If LeBron had ty coaches and sometimes ty teams and still leads doesn't that strengthen his GOAT claim? Just asking ....
I did noy expecT anything knew Kobe would be low and LeBron high had no idea how the rest would play out. I did not dig for this info it was on the front page of ESPN. I figured hall would enjoy where Kobe and Tony were listed once I saw it but question Gino and Duncan ...Don't know why KK would expect a post-playing big to have a great <5 seconds shooting percentage at the end of games
The fact that Kirbs lags behind a post-playing big in this category is somewhat pathetic, though.
Better comparison would be the "clutch time stat" (last 5 minutes of the game, no team ahead by more than 5 points).
In the playoffs, Duncan shoots .455 during "clutch time," and this just takes into account his scoring and not all the big defensive plays he's contributed in that regard. Fun fact: Duncan was 6-10 during clutch time during this year's playoffs.
Kobe shoots .399. To be fair, this doesn't take into account Kobe's made FTs during that time from being intentionally fouled, and it's not a terrible percentage for a guard in that situation, as most players, even bigs, see a drop off in shooting % during that period.
Again not saying I agree with Pane or his criteria just asking questions
3 issues:
1) This is a horrible definition of clutch. Why 5 seconds? Someone made a shot at 5.1 seconds any less clutch?
2) Why shooting percentage? Rebounds, blocks, steals, defense, passes are all integral parts of end game situations.
3) Extremely small sample size.
That said, Kobe seems to come up bottoms in all types of clutch stats though.
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