Is Tony Parker a top 5 PG of all time?

[SASdynasty!]

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Cousy
4. Isaiah
5. Stockton
6. Frazier
7. Nash
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Paul
11. Payton
12. KJ
13. Tiny
14. Curry
15. Westbrook

*If we're calling West a PG, then he's top-5.

[TheGreatYacht]

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Cousy
4. Isaiah
5. Stockton
6. Frazier
7. Nash
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Paul
11. Payton
12. KJ
13. Tiny
14. Westbrook
15. Billups

*If we're calling West a PG, then he's top-5.

Pretty good list, tbh. I'd put Parker over Kidd though without question.

Steph Curry is already above Billups on my list

[SASdynasty!]

Pretty good list, tbh. I'd put Parker over Kidd though without question.

Steph Curry is already above Billups on my list

Totally forgot about Steph...and yah I certainly believe Parker's got a good case over Kidd and even over Nash. It would be really really hard to argue him over Nash though with his 2 MVPs.

[TDfan2007]

When looking at accomplishments and records, there was no other PG outside of Magic Johnson that was a lock for the HOF at age 32 like Parker. Now there is no doubt the media will have him as a top ten PG of all time when it's all set and done for his accomplishments, I thought to myself, could he potentially be top five? Think about it, who out there could be greater? Sure you have Magic, Nash and Oscar Robertson. But after that? It's a crap shoot. Unless CPIII wins, he will forever be known as the equivalent of John Stockton. Jason Kidd and Gary Payton? Sure they had more talent, but will always be remembered as coat-tailing to their first ring on stacked teams. Bob Cousey will not be known in twenty years by virtually everyone. Parker's accomplishments, although may be over-blown by casual fans and the media, will be what most remember, whether you like it or not.



So when it's all set and done, I could easily see the top five PG's of all time looking like:
Magic, Big O, Isiah Thomas, Nash, TP... and no one would have a problem with that... except cry baby Spurfans... but who cares?

Lets face it.. Manu was the Alpha over Parker for a long time... sadly... he didn't get the recognition for it and nobody will ever remember that outside of Spursfans...

So.. TP top five PG of all time... nice ring to it. As long as you're not a player-fan and a Spurs fan.. you should be able to celebrate the greatness of the Big 3.

Stockton, Kidd, and Paul were/are all better than Tony. Your argument is extremely flawed. Just because Player A is more successful than player B, doesn't make player A better. Rings and team success should be used to separate players who are on the same skill/statistical tier.

Tony is a great scorer, floor general, and clutch player. He's also one of the best guards in history at finishing in the paint. However, he's also mediocre defensively (atrocious these last 2-3 years), has average court vision at best, and has been mostly underwhelming in the playoffs (2009 and 2013 are the only years he posted a playoff PER of over 20). If a guy has a PER of 11.9 and 12 (league average is 15) for 2 of his 4 championships, while being a clear #3 on each of those les, then using those les to prop him up over guys like Kidd and Stockton doesn't make any sense.

I can't think of many GOAT-level PGs that have come up in league history though, so I'd say he could be top 10 when all is said and done. Tony has been great for the franchise, and his style of play has been perfect for our system, but let's not get carried away.



TLDR: No.

[FkLA]

Is Green+Diaw for Shumpert a good trade too?

[cd98]

Jordan was 6'6". LeBron's 6'9". I think you're cofusing the two.

But I agree, Stockton not being mentioned here is a joke. He was vastly superior to Parker despite the no rings. And I like Parker.

When I said MJ, I meant Magic Johnson, not Michael Jordan, though I agree that typically MJ is known to be Michael Jordan.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Stockton, Kidd, and Paul were/are all better than Tony. Your argument is extremely flawed. Just because Player A is more successful than player B, doesn't make player A better. Rings and team success should be used to separate players who are on the same skill/statistical tier.

Tony is a great scorer, floor general, and clutch player. He's also one of the best guards in history at finishing in the paint. However, he's also mediocre defensively (atrocious these last 2-3 years), has average court vision at best, and has been mostly underwhelming in the playoffs (2009 and 2013 are the only years he posted a playoff PER of over 20). If a guy has a PER of 11.9 and 12 (league average is 15) for 2 of his 4 championships, while being a clear #3 on each of those les, then using those les to prop him up over guys like Kidd and Stockton doesn't make any sense.

I can't think of many GOAT-level PGs that have come up in league history though, so I'd say he could be top 10 when all is said and done. Tony has been great for the franchise, and his style of play has been perfect for our system, but let's not get carried away.



TLDR: No.

Tony has been around for so long that it's difficult to remember all terrible point guards we've had at that position. Avery for all he did for this franchise was not that great of a player. When Parker retires Spurs fans are going to realize what a rare commodity we had in a PG that can do the things he did.

[ambchang]

PGs I will take over Parker (in no particular order)

Magic
Oscar
Isiah Thomas
Stockton
Kidd
Nash
Payton
Iverson (I still count him as a point)
Derek Harper
Walt Frazier
Mark Price
Jerry West
Chris Paul
Dennis Johnson
Maurice Cheeks
Kevin Johnson

Maybes:
Billups
Terry Porter
Lenny Wilkens
Sidney Moncrief
Tim Hardaway

Too old to judge:
Cousy
Sam Jones

Too early to tell:
Steph Curry
Mike Conley (a seriously underrated player)
Westbrook

Probably not:
Cassell
Tiny Archibald
Doc Rivers
Anfernee Hardaway (too injured, but definitely if he had a longer prime)
Terrell Brandon (Huge fan of his, but his game would translate horribly in today's game).

[cantthinkofanything]

PGs I will take over Parker (in no particular order)
Maybes:
Billups
Terry Porter
Lenny Wilkens
Sidney Moncrief
Tim Hardaway

Moncrief had HOF talent.

[lefty]

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Cousy
4. Isaiah
5. Stockton
6. Frazier
7. Nash
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Paul
11. Payton
12. KJ
13. Tiny
14. Curry
15. Westbrook

*If we're calling West a PG, then he's top-5.

Parker over KJ, Payton

[SASdynasty!]

Parker over KJ, Payton

I'll take a PG who's proven he can be the best player on a championship team (and proven he can be a top-3 guy multiple times on other championship teams) over guys who were the 2nd best player on teams that couldn't win. Add to that KJ's short career (which keep his stats inflated) and they still aren't much better than Parker's. Parker was a better scorer and creator than GP on offense, but obviously not on defense.

[FkLA]

Parker was a better scorer and creator than GP on offense, but obviously not on defense.

The are you talking about you dumb got? GP averaged 20+ PPG seven times in his career, Enrique has done it twice. GP averaged 7+ APG ten years in a row, Enrique has done that twice. If we include defense GP s on him that much more. There is no argument that puts Enrique over GP.

[FkLA]

Stockton, Kidd, and Paul were/are all better than Tony. Your argument is extremely flawed. Just because Player A is more successful than player B, doesn't make player A better. Rings and team success should be used to separate players who are on the same skill/statistical tier.

Tony is a great scorer, floor general, and clutch player. He's also one of the best guards in history at finishing in the paint. However, he's also mediocre defensively (atrocious these last 2-3 years), has average court vision at best, and has been mostly underwhelming in the playoffs (2009 and 2013 are the only years he posted a playoff PER of over 20). If a guy has a PER of 11.9 and 12 (league average is 15) for 2 of his 4 championships, while being a clear #3 on each of those les, then using those les to prop him up over guys like Kidd and Stockton doesn't make any sense.

I can't think of many GOAT-level PGs that have come up in league history though, so I'd say he could be top 10 when all is said and done. Tony has been great for the franchise, and his style of play has been perfect for our system, but let's not get carried away.



TLDR: No.

It's too bad most of the re s that him anywhere near the Top 5 don't have the attention span to read this. Great post nonetheless though, aside from the whole he's clutch/great floor general thing.

[mkurts]

I'll take a PG who's proven he can be the best player on a championship team (and proven he can be a top-3 guy multiple times on other championship teams) over guys who were the 2nd best player on teams that couldn't win. Add to that KJ's short career (which keep his stats inflated) and they still aren't much better than Parker's. Parker was a better scorer and creator than GP on offense, but obviously not on defense.

Oh my god have you ever watched The Glove in his prime ? Obviously not ...

[james evans]

When looking at accomplishments and records, there was no other PG outside of Magic Johnson that was a lock for the HOF at age 32 like Parker. Now there is no doubt the media will have him as a top ten PG of all time when it's all set and done for his accomplishments, I thought to myself, could he potentially be top five? Think about it, who out there could be greater? Sure you have Magic, Nash and Oscar Robertson. But after that? It's a crap shoot. Unless CPIII wins, he will forever be known as the equivalent of John Stockton. Jason Kidd and Gary Payton? Sure they had more talent, but will always be remembered as coat-tailing to their first ring on stacked teams. Bob Cousey will not be known in twenty years by virtually everyone. Parker's accomplishments, although may be over-blown by casual fans and the media, will be what most remember, whether you like it or not.



So when it's all set and done, I could easily see the top five PG's of all time looking like:
Magic, Big O, Isiah Thomas, Nash, TP... and no one would have a problem with that... except cry baby Spurfans... but who cares?

Lets face it.. Manu was the Alpha over Parker for a long time... sadly... he didn't get the recognition for it and nobody will ever remember that outside of Spursfans...

So.. TP top five PG of all time... nice ring to it. As long as you're not a player-fan and a Spurs fan.. you should be able to celebrate the greatness of the Big 3.

parker better than jason kidd,stockton, and payton, all time? what the are you smoking? I didn't even mention chris paul(thought parker isn't better than him either). But you seriously think parker is better than the 3 I mentioned all time? Parker better than Fraizer? Parker better than cousy? What made you type such silliness?

[james evans]

Oh my god have you ever watched The Glove in his prime ? Obviously not ...

No he hasn't. He started watching basketball in 2007 during the nba finals.

[lefty]

I'll take a PG who's proven he can be the best player on a championship team (and proven he can be a top-3 guy multiple times on other championship teams) over guys who were the 2nd best player on teams that couldn't win. Add to that KJ's short career (which keep his stats inflated) and they still aren't much better than Parker's. Parker was a better scorer and creator than GP on offense, but obviously not on defense.

When was Parker the best player on a championship team?
And don't mention 2007, any average pg would have destroyed Gibson

And it's not like he had to face MJ and yhe the Bulls in the Finals, like KJ and Payton

Regardless, they were much better players than Porker anyway

[spurspokesman]

No. And i'm a big TP supporter

[Silver&Black]

When was Parker the best player on a championship team?
And don't mention 2007, any average pg would have destroyed Gibson

Just because he played against Gibson in the Finals....he is automatically disqualified from being "the best player on a championship team"?

Dat logic

[SASdynasty!]

The are you talking about you dumb got? GP averaged 20+ PPG seven times in his career, Enrique has done it twice. GP averaged 7+ APG ten years in a row, Enrique has done that twice. If we include defense GP s on him that much more. There is no argument that puts Enrique over GP.

I'm talking about the fact that GP was a freiking journeyman who chased rings to 5 different teams to finally get his le (Miami). He numbers were terrible in the postseason (shooting percentage dropped from 47% to 44%) and he averaged 14.0 PPG for his career. Wow, that's so amazing. He was a great defender and almost gave Jordan enough trouble to do something (but didn't). Parker not only outplayed Lebron James in the 2007 Finals, but was the best player on the Spurs throughout the 2014 regular season and postseason. I know you and the krew are too biased to understand that, but I'm sorry. Your hate of one of the best point guards to ever play the game is beyond irrational, and we're just glad you aren't a coach, announcer, or basketball analyst. You would have probably benched Parker when he was a top MVP candidate.

[SASdynasty!]

When was Parker the best player on a championship team?
And don't mention 2007, any average pg would have destroyed Gibson

And it's not like he had to face MJ and yhe the Bulls in the Finals, like KJ and Payton

Regardless, they were much better players than Porker anyway

No, in 2007 he was only clearly the best player in the Finals (Duncan was the best player in the regular season and playoffs). In 2014, he was the best player in the regular season and the playoffs (not the Finals). Take your pick. Or just name me some other players who were the only All-Star and only All-NBA player on a championship team, who also led that team in scoring and assists throughout the regular season and playoffs and we're not the best player on their team.

[Kidd K]

When I said MJ, I meant Magic Johnson, not Michael Jordan, though I agree that typically MJ is known to be Michael Jordan.

Oh okay, my bad man.

[FkLA]

I'm talking about the fact that GP was a freiking journeyman who chased rings to 5 different teams to finally get his le (Miami). He numbers were terrible in the postseason (shooting percentage dropped from 47% to 44%) and he averaged 14.0 PPG for his career. Wow, that's so amazing. He was a great defender and almost gave Jordan enough trouble to do something (but didn't). Parker not only outplayed Lebron James in the 2007 Finals, but was the best player on the Spurs throughout the 2014 regular season and postseason. I know you and the krew are too biased to understand that, but I'm sorry. Your hate of one of the best point guards to ever play the game is beyond irrational, and we're just glad you aren't a coach, announcer, or basketball analyst. You would have probably benched Parker when he was a top MVP candidate.

lol you ing moron, of course his last years when he was past his prime brought his averages down. Just like this year and future years will bring Enrique's averages down. During their primes it was no contest...GP was the better scorer, passer and defender.

[FkLA]

Just because he played against Gibson in the Finals....he is automatically disqualified from being "the best player on a championship team"?

Dat logic

Come on now, you don't actually believe he was the best player on the team in 07 do you? I can see the Enrique s thinking that but not you. Timmy was still a Top 5 (probably Top 3) player in the league. Manu was still Manu. Enrique was pretty much the third best player on the team...he just happened to see a chance for personal glory with Gibson lined up opposite of him and took it.

[SASdynasty!]

Come on now, you don't actually believe he was the best player on the team in 07 do you? I can see the Enrique s thinking that but not you. Timmy was still a Top 5 (probably Top 3) player in the league. Manu was still Manu. Enrique was pretty much the third best player on the team...he just happened to see a chance for personal glory with Gibson lined up opposite of him and took it.

Oh please...Gibson wasn't so terrible 2 rounds before when Kidd couldn't go off on him. He wasn't terrible when Billups couldn't go off on him. But all of a sudden Parker goes off and you guys act like anyone could do it. Then why didn't those guys? Why did they average like 15 PPG on terrible shooting when Parker goes for 25 PPG on amazing shooting? Probably because the Cleveland front court all of a sudden just let Parker go off (not because Parker had a great series). You guys will go to any lengths...it's pretty sad. You try to discredit the highest honor in the NBA by naming a guy who did just fine against 2 other great guards the 2 series before. Good try morons.