NBA: this loss pretty much seals MJ >>>> Leroids forever

[ambchang]

Blah blah blah. Excuse excuse excuse.

The Cavs defense was fine. They surely could havd used Love and Irving because as LeHype's 38% shooting indicates, offense was absolutely needed when JR Clank and Chumpert went limp.

GM James has proven that without superstar help (Ray Allen, D-Whistle, Bosh e) or herculean efforts of scrubs (Battier), he won't win PERIOD.


He knew he needed Love and Irving. He kept saying "we are undermanned" -- who the was he talking about if not these 2 all stars? Clearly he values them more than you do. Unless you saying Coach James is the certified dumbass? If so, in this case only, you are not.

Coach James is a certified dumbass, he made multiple poor decisions in terms of forcing management's hand and ultimately hurts himself. Riley had the backbones to stand up to him, and he won two championships because of it.

And Irving shot 46% from the field and 25% from three in that one great game he had vs. GSW, in which the Warriors lost.

Finally, we know Lebron is no Duncan, he needs help to win it all.

[ambchang]

I get shaq led or at least was the more dominant player of the three-peat ... but to act as though Pau led the last two les is a ty take and shows how little you no hoops or how much bias blinds the weakminded.

WS, BPM and VORP says otherwise.

MVPau just gets criminally underrated.

[da_suns_fan]

As supporting casts? No, they aren't that good.

They do nothing to fill in the a team with Lebron on it.

A Lebron led team needs defensive players, and neither of them are it. It's like putting Kobe next to Mike in his prime, it's not really a good support for Mike, because he duplicates a lot of what Mike does, and does it worse. Or how Kevin Johnson was traded away because the Cavs had Mark Price.

Irving offensive skill set overlaps a lot of what Lebron does, and does it worse. Irving doesn't have the same abilities to involve teammates, he tends to hold on to the ball too long, and is primarily an ISO oriented player. Lebron could be that, and is much better than him at it.

Love rebounds well, but he is just a bad defender. He seems to have trouble grasping defensive concepts (I don't think it's a lack of effort).

If either of them can reinvent themselves and fill in a role, then great. If not, they are not great supporting casts, at least not specifically for Lebron.

I actually agree with some of this. Irvings skills do somewhat overlap Lebron's but so does pretty much every PG in the league. You cant really create if Lebron has the ball in his hands 70% of the time. As a result, Irvings assist rate dropped this year.

But he still shot almost 50% from the field and 41% from 3.

I think we saw the limit as to what Lebron could do without any other play-makers on the floor. Its reasonable to assume the Cavs would have fared better if Irving was there to be able to give Lebron a rest for more than just a minute at a time.

[ambchang]

I actually agree with some of this. Irvings skills do somewhat overlap Lebron's but so does pretty much every PG in the league. You cant really create if Lebron has the ball in his hands 70% of the time. As a result, Irvings assist rate dropped this year.

But he still shot almost 50% from the field and 41% from 3.

I think we saw the limit as to what Lebron could do without any other play-makers on the floor. Its reasonable to assume the Cavs would have fared better if Irving was there to be able to give Lebron a rest for more than just a minute at a time.

Lebron is similar to Jordan in some ways, the ball is better in his hands, so having a PG that creates shots mostly for himself doesn't help the Cavs maximize the potential of the team. You need a defensive minded shooter at point, you need rugged rebounding defensive minded bigs, like Varaejao in there. An ultimate team for Lebron would be to put him on the Grizzlies and take away Randolph.

Conley, Allen, Lebron, Marc Gasol, Courtney Lee, Jeff Green and Carter.

Lee, Green and Conley would benefit immensely, on the offensive side of things with lebron. The Grizzlies actually had the chance last year if they just somehow got rid of Randolph for nothing, but then, Lebron will likely never sign there.

[Pelicans78]

Some pretty lazy analysis here.

Was Lebron really suppose to win the le in 07 and 15? You hold that against him?

He won two NBA finals games on his own.

Jordan was a better scorer but Lebron is a better all-around player. LIKE EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD, I, too, saw Jordan play his whole career and I never saw a player who was virtually everywhere the way James was in the finals this season.

It extends to regular season too. Jordan had way more 40 pt/5 ast games but Lebron can get 30/7/7 on a bad night.

Jordan was a better defender.

[Infinite_limit]

Jordan was a better defender.

Agreed. Wasn't Kobe as well

[Alex's foreskin]

Jordan was a better defender.

And not afraid of the moment. For the first half of LeBron's career, he was afraid to shoot game deciding free throws.

[Arcadian]

Too early:
Durant

You think it's still too early to rank Durant? He's been in the league for 8 years. Larry Bird did most of his damage in his first 8 years, and that would have been enough to rank him.

[Thread]

And not afraid of the moment. For the first half of LeBron's career, he was afraid to shoot game deciding free throws.

& for the second half of LeBron's career he won't engage the opposition unless they're face ass down.

[ambchang]

You think it's still too early to rank Durant? He's been in the league for 8 years. Larry Bird did most of his damage in his first 8 years, and that would have been enough to rank him.

Sports has changed.

Players have longer primes because of better medicine and training, but also because players start earlier.

The injury may be one of those what if things like what happened to rose, but he may be unaffected and may go a few more years of dominating basketball. At which point you can put him in as one of the all time greats.

[Sean Cagney]

Don't let the media even fool you in to this debate as he was never near Mike to begin with IMO despite all that hype. They were talking up his finals as legendary and so on but failed to mention he shot 38% from the field, he was ballin but Mike has had better numbers in the finals before and so has Shaq etc (But they won). He is great but they hype him up a little too much.

[Thread]

^& it's centralized. I got local guys talking verbatim the same line that Cowherd puts out nationally, word-for-word. It's maddening.

[Infinite_limit]

Durant over Curry

I'd also prefer Harden

[hater]

Lebron
Curry
Harden
Davis
Chris Paul
Griffin
Aldridge
Lillard
John wall
Marc gasol

I'd also take kawhi, Duncan, cousins, mike Conley, and likely a few others before I pick Irving.

no

Irving is a franchise player through and through. Lebron had more than help. (up until the injury)

[hater]

LOLlard better than Irving

and then you complain about scoring PGs

[Thebesteva]

It was never in any serious jeopardy tbh. LeBronze is a bonified choker...even if he wins 2-3 in a row now it's over. Don't get me wrong, he's a top 10 guy for sure, but he's not even in the same conversation as MJ. He has yet to surpass Kobe or Magic in accomplishments, these are facts that cause CN to cry at nights.

[Thread]

...+ he's biting the pillow as well.

[Alex's foreskin]

& for the second half of LeBron's career he won't engage the opposition unless they're face ass down.

Yup. His career should have been a lot more than numbers.

[Thread]

Yup. His career should have been a lot more than numbers.

Yep, Game 6 he came out terrified, loitering the 3 point line. Not until the game was decided did he come to the fore.

[ambchang]

no

Irving is a franchise player through and through. Lebron had more than help. (up until the injury)

LOLlard better than Irving

and then you complain about scoring PGs

A franchise player who can't lead his team to the playoffs in a historically weak conference?

Check the numbers. Lillard is better. Wall is better. Kawhi is better and Duncan is better.

[Infinite_limit]

It was never in any serious jeopardy tbh. LeBronze is a bonified choker...even if he wins 2-3 in a row now it's over. Don't get me wrong, he's a top 10 guy for sure, but he's not even in the same conversation as MJ. He has yet to surpass Kobe or Magic in accomplishments, these are facts that cause CN to cry at nights.

Kobe over James Crew

[hater]

A franchise player who can't lead his team to the playoffs in a historically weak conference?

Check the numbers. Lillard is better. Wall is better. Kawhi is better and Duncan is better.

Pay gasol was a top 10 big man and he couldn't win a playoff game in the much tougher west. Take a look at the cavs roster with Irving as the main.

lollard

[hater]

Yeah at this point I don't see lebrona even better than Kobe. T qh

[Alex's foreskin]

Lillard

[ambchang]

Pay gasol was a top 10 big man and he couldn't win a playoff game in the much tougher west. Take a look at the cavs roster with Irving as the main.

lollard

And lillard could and did. Why are you trying to argu against yourself?

If the Bobcats can make the playoffs, Irving should.