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DMC: "The drop off of talent from an MVP candidate to Jeremy Lamb, Steven Adams, Dion Waiters, was minimal"
LMAO,,,Harden was 22 and younger,,barely learning the ropes,,Martin was 30 and a vet in his prime and Harden still outshined him. Are you really arguing Harden isn't a great player?
DMC: "The drop off of talent from an MVP candidate to Jeremy Lamb, Steven Adams, Dion Waiters, was minimal"
James Harden was averaging fewer than 12 FGA a game with the Thunder in his final season. No way he gets more than that with Durant and Westbrick playing if he stays. Starting him puts three ball dominant guys on the floor at the same time. He showed he couldn't guard Lebron James man on man. , he was one of the worst defenders in the game. People were lambasting Houston for offering him the deal they did. Don't get all revisionist on me with your hindsight. Harden was the odd one out in OKC. I suggested they trade RW and start James, but they didn't. For that reason, they didn't lose much by trading him. He was going to walk for nothing in a year.
Harden is great at getting to the FT line. "Player" denotes the entire game of basketball. He doesn't defend worth a . I saw him go down by 20 points and sit on his ass on the court while old washed up vets bailed him out. When he goes shot happy, he scores points. So ing what. He cannot get a stop to save his life.
ginobili has averaged fewer than 12 FGA in 10 of his 13 seasons with the spurs.
if the spurs traded him for equivalents of jeremy lamb, steven adams, kevin martin it would have been a significant loss
Harden wasn't an MVP candidate in OKC. I realize gook logic is skewed but you've been here long enough to at least get a bead on truth.DMC: "The drop off of talent from an MVP candidate to Jeremy Lamb, Steven Adams, Dion Waiters, was minimal"
I guess you think the Mark Gasol trade for Pau was balanced since Mark is a good player now, despite the fact that he was a pudgy unknown quality at the time. Revisionist and all.
Harden was fine playing the Ginobli role. He just wanted to be paid fairly.
He was a candidate when he left. And you said they didn't lose much.DMC running in circles
Speculation like that is useless. It wouldn't have been a "significant loss" when the Spurs got beat by the 8th seed because Manu was injured (again), or when Manu turned the ball over 8 times to give away game 6 in the Finals, or for that foul on Dirk that made absolutely zero sense that cost the Spurs probably another ring.
We can swap speculations all day. The numbers for Harden prior to his trade don't support the "franchise player" moniker revisionists here are attaching to him before he was even traded. I don't recall him being called that back then either.
So you're saying Harden was an MVP candidate in OKC? Seriously?He was a candidate when he left. And you said they didn't lose much.
Lebron
Kevin Love
Tony Parker
KD
Kobe
I don't see Harden in there. 6th man, sure... not MVP though.
He wouldn't have been one there because he wouldn't have gotten the role over RW or KD.
harden's numbers were consistent with manu's production for the spurs during the same portion of his career
When was Manu ever a franchise player? How were Kevin Martin's numbers? Jamal Crawford?
Jesus ing Christ. I literally just said "when he left". You said they didn't lose much, which counts for what happened afterwards. Move your fatass hands out of the way so you can read.
What about Draymond Green...when he got traded this off season how did that go>...was he a loss since you and me agree he doesn't fit?
i never said manu was a franchise player, nor is that my discussion about harden. you're assertion that they didnt lose much is completely bogus. it's possible to lose a lot without losing a franchise player
crawford and martin were never in the same ballpark as either. both were high volume FGA guys
DMC,,youre trying to keep your argument focused on Oklahoma City and a vision that Harden had reached his peak at age 22,,,everyone knew the kid was something special and Presti dropped the ball not keeping him,,,he is still having nightmares about it like Pete Carroll on the 1 yard line and Lynch in the backfield,,,,
Maybe you should learn precision questioning and answering. If I say "When did he leave?" would you say "this season"? He left in 2012. In 2012 he was not an MVP candidate. Remember, precision questions get precision answers. Your loose understanding of the English language is at the root of your issues here. Now follow up your post with another emoticon so we can all know you were being sirry.
I said they didn't lose much when they traded him. If you're going to use the starting James Harden who gets the most touches in a system geared to accentuate his effect on the game, you need to also allow that for Mark Gasol. LA didn't lose much when they traded Mark Gasol for Pau. It would have been the same had they traded him for a lesser player because Mark Gasol of that era wasn't anything special.
So you have to use what they had when they traded to know whether or not it was a good trade. You cannot keep watching the stock climb and judge the trade years later, in a completely different system than OKC would have ever run.
I don't think anyone here thinks he was worth 80m, including you under your main account.
That is not what you were asking. You kept saying in OKC. And now you are moving the goalposts
"They didn't lose much" includes anything that happened after he left.
So you just threw Manu out there for s and giggles?
I said James isn't a franchise player. He's in that role, but he's not capable of carrying that franchise. He benefited this season from everyone else being injured. If Lebron doesn't hiatus, if KD isn't out, if Kobe isn't out, if Melo isn't out, if every other better talent in the game isn't out, Harden isn't in the race.
Put the Rockets with Lebron James instead. Now you have a franchise player and they probably win the ring. Same with KD, same with probably Melo (maybe), same with a few others. James was a beneficiary of an odd season.
To know what they lost, they only can look at what THEY had, not what HOUSTON has. Teams don't make trades based on what the player will do elsewhere, but on what that player will do for them. Harden wasn't going to make them champions. He wasn't going to settle for coming off the bench and he wasn't going to replace the starters.That is not what you were asking. You kept saying in OKC. And now you are moving the goalposts
"They didn't lose much" includes anything that happened after he left.
The trade is going to cost them Durant and eventually Westbrook. So hope it will be worth it
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