Green
Bowen
One series and even then, Curry still had a decent (Curry shot 35% from 3pt that series) . In his prime, Bruce never got owned once for an entire series. Maybe 1 and at most 2 games in a series, his opponent would play on par. But for the most part, Bruce made them play worse.
I'm pretty certain this is correct. But obviously, when those guys were in their prime, they needed a different set of role players around them (ie: Pop could certainly afford to have a defense-only specialist out there, or trot out semi-stiffs like Rasho, Elson). We also played defense differently, for obvious reasons.
It's pretty close tbh.. But i'd have to give Bowen the edge here... prime kobe / t-mac LAWD!! I will never forget the hurt he put on the pistons in 05. Some great defensive standsOh yeah and can't forget the 3 chips. Green is no slouch either. Definitely more athletic, and is probably the best fastbreak defender in the league (although simmons might have something to say about that
) Green has only scratched the surface on what he can be and the legacy he will build with the Spurs.
And I will say this, Green did have one very good Bowen-like series and that is when he guarded Paul in the 2012 Clips series. But he preceded to get his ass owned by Harden the next series.
You asked for an example, and I gave it. That was by no means the only series he was awesome in. Anyway, you bringing up Curry's series numbers is silly, because you were asking about Green's job, which was quantified by ESPN. That wasn't really done back in Bowen's day, which is why people assume Bowen was responsible for all of James' negatives when Manu picked up more turnovers against Lebron than Bowen did.
And I'll guess we'll ignore Dirk in 2006 or Nash in pretty much anything. Or Paul.
It's definitely hard to compare their games as the game has changed significantly since Bowen's departure.
how many times did u voteThis is really close..
53
57
No, I talk like his disappearing act in the two most critical games of the series was a significant contribution to losing those games. I've said that over and over again. Don't try to move the goal posts. You don't think DG going 1-7 in Game 6 (a game that was tied at the end of regulation) was significant? Really? Nobody relies on DG to win a championship, but he is relied upon to contribute, and his core competency on offense is making shots. He went 2-19. The big boys did step up. Old man Duncan played like a real MVP, like he typically does when then series is on the line. DG disappeared.
As a whole, Green had a good Game Six. His defense really picked up. Meanwhile, what did Manu do during that game to offset his turnovers?
Green shooting 2-19 is not particularly weird. The Spurs can and do find a way to survive that whenever it happens. That didn't lose the series any more than the other mistakes that led up to those games.
Who's moving goalposts here? Green was the main reason the Spurs were on that positioin the first place. He's just a role player, you cant expect him to do it for 7 straight games
At the end of the day, if this is your big argument against Green in favor of bowen, then you are just hurting your cause. Since for you, Green's offense was the biggest problem we couldn't close the Heat out. Bowen's offense never made or broke a series, he was there for defense and an occasional 3 here and there.
Manu's turnovers were also a significant contributor to the loss on game 6. I doubt anybody would deny that. I'm not sure how anybody could deny DG's disappearing act contributing to the loss as well.
Green going 2-19 is weird. As one of the best shooters in the league, it's unlike him. It's unusual. And when that kind of streak does happen, you only hope it doesn't happen when it matters most. His confidence on offense was clearly shaken in Game 6 and that bled into Game 7. We're not talking about the games that led up to it. We're talking about Games 6 and 7. He played outstanding in Games 1-5. In Games 6 and 7, he went 2-19. In close games that could have clinched the series, it hurt us. Plain and simple. I'm not sure how people can deny that. People are acting like it made no difference. It did. It was a significant factor in those losses. And the Spurs did try to find a way to survive. As he typically does when it's do or die, Old Man Duncan played like it was 2003 again. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough.
Green's easily better offensively (dat Finals performance) but I thought Bowen was better on defense. He didn't fill the stat sheets but you could visibly see him piss off and frustrate everyone he defended even when he wasn't sticking his feet under people and just playing normally. Almost no one seems frustrated with Green even though he does a good job.
But he cucked LeBron in the Finals. Made him look like complete with practically no double teams.
Not to mention Foot Gate. Take jumpers near Bowen at your own risk.
First, calling it a "disappearing act" completely ignores the fact that he was there defending and spacing the floor for the rest of the guys. Danny completely changed the way the Heat defended because they couldn't afford to ignore him.
No, it's not particularly weird. Green went cold in then 2012 WCF (though he was still a really good defender in that series). It happens. He can't be insanely hot every time you want him to be.Green going 2-19 is weird. As one of the best shooters in the league, it's unlike him. It's unusual. And when that kind of streak does happen, you only hope it doesn't happen when it matters most.
It was one of the reasons why the Spurs didn't win. But literally every rotation player did something wrong that cost the series. That's why calling out Green makes little sense. He had the second-most (at worst) awesome defensive play in Spurs' playoff history in during that "disappearing act".In close games that could have clinched the series, it hurt us. Plain and simple. I'm not sure how people can deny that.
He played like Old Man Duncan until he missed a bunny at the end of Game Seven. He was great until then but failed when it mattered most.And the Spurs did try to find a way to survive. As he typically does when it's do or die, Old Man Duncan played like it was 2003 again.
Manu failed when it mattered most.
Kawhi missed a FT when it mattered most.
Diaw couldn't box out Bosh when it mattered most.
Parker couldn't score down one in OT when it mattered most.
Green went cold at the absolute worst time, and it killed him during those games. But when the chips were down and he was alone staring down the best player on Earth running at him full speed with the game on the line, he blocked him and got the turnover. You don't think that's stepping up?
Wow. If that's your memory of that series, I don't know what to tell you.
And for some reason people think that made him a better defender.Not to mention Foot Gate. Take jumpers near Bowen at your own risk.
Bowen single man defended him the vast majority of the time. Off the ball work counts for something too, which is where he damaged LeBron's offensive impact the most by denying him the ability to get open to receive passes to get the ball in the first place. If he didn't bring that up the court or go way out near the halfcourt line to get a pass, he didn't get the ball very often.
Bowen did an excellent job and I wish more fans could appreciate defense that takes place away from the ball too.
You are moving the goal posts. That's all you've been doing. I never said he was the reason we lost the games 6 and 7. I've said over and over and over again that he played outstanding in Games 1-5. He was amazing. He was a big contributor to use winning those games. We've covered that. But that has nothing to do with Games 6 and 7. For some reason, you refuse to acknowledge that he completely lost his confidence and disappeared in Games 6 and 7, and that was a significant contribution to us losing us those games. You don't think that carried weight? You don't think it mattered? How can you deny that? It's a just an honest reflection of what actually happened. But apparently his shots only matter when we win. And yeah, Manu was TO machine and Kawhi missed a free throw. Norris Cole never stepped foot on the court in the last two games, but Chalmers did get the edge on Parker in the last games. Everybody had their faults. Nobody gets a pass. It doesn't change that fact DG turning into an offensive ghost in Games 6 and 7 significantly hurt our chances of winning those two games. I'm not sure how you can deny that.
To recap, to rein you back in, you said DG delivered in 2 straight finals and pinned the loss on the benching of Duncan. I said "It's important to note that DG threw up brick after brick and let himself get pretty frazzled in that game. His 1-7 from the field was also pretty damaging in a game that close." That is what I'm saying. That's it. I haven't strayed from that point. I'm not sure how anybody could deny his offensive performance was damaging in Game 6 and 7. I hope that provides clarity on my position, but I fully expect you to respond by saying he was amazing in Games 1-5. lol
You're all over the place. I have made exactly zero claims or allusions about Bowen being better than Green. I'm not sure why you're once again trying to argue with me about something I never said. lol
Like, seriously, if that's how you saw that series, there's really nothing more to say. It didn't happen that way at all.
It sounds like you and I are in agreement.
Agreeing on a premise isn't agreeing on a conclusion.
Oh, so it's sounds like you don't think DG going 2-19 significantly contributed to the Spurs losing games Games 6 and 7. Got it. We can agree to disagree on that one.
op after jinxing Kawhi last playoff with his premature and childish takes, now going after green...
We lost cause Enrique chuck mode.
Yeah and Matt Barnes outplayed Kawhi has nothing to do with it... And stop blaming Parker cause first you should blame Pop who was naive and vanilla all season and didn't take charge on things like he should have...
That's the order I blame them in. Pop first tony second.
So start making Pop hate threads instead of only tony threads...
Last edited by kobyz; 07-23-2015 at 02:25 PM.
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