Jimmer Fredette to the Spurs (Update: Mostly Non-Guaranteed Training Camp Deal)

[exstatic]

Of, course. That's why I said "far better"? Far better means, well, a lot. Thought it was a fairly standard phrase. You missed the original comparison. I did not make it. The quote box had an error on my tablet, the easier fix was to delete most of it. I wouldn't have suggested Jimmer was even close, exactly why I refuted it.

Is he 150 X better than Fredette? Because that's the money gap.

[sasaint]

Note: McCallum is better than CoJo, let's see if Jimmer is up to this challenge.

Ahhh... That is the $64,000 question for McCallum. We don't really know the answer yet. Pessimists believe he isn't, and optimists believe he is. We shall see... I hope he is. I hope he is good enough to eventually become Tony's replacement. Now, that would be a coup. If Jimmer also proves better than Cojo, that would be a real coup. (I think all Jimmer really needs to do is knock down treys at a Marco clip.) In the evolving NBA of "position-less" ball, they might end up playing beside one another instead of really competing directly with one another for PT.

I think Simmons is the real key here. I hope he will be such a great Manu apprentice that he, like Manu in his prime, will move from 1 to 2 to 3 as game situations dictate. We already saw some of this in SL, when Becky used him as the principal ball-handler to close the last couple of games. He shows signs of being a very good defender, also. Playing along side either McCallum or Simmons, if Jimmer's D could be counted on to be as good (?) as Tony's or Marco's, then he could stick and eventually get Marco level minutes.

[ceperez]

I don't think most would agree with your opinion on this.

The detractors will be nodding in agreement come mid-season, I guarantee it!

[littlecoyotecoin]

Is he 150 X better than Fredette? Because that's the money gap.

I don't know, but he won't make 50k if he makes the team, so that 150x is an apples to, um, er, typewriters, was that it, comparison. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. It will be like 7.5 times as much, if Jimmer makes the team. Is Cojo 7.5 times better. Still, I don't know. I can't quantify "far better". I'll have to let you put a number to it. I think Cojo was overpaid, so there's that, too. Then there's also the fact that valuations don't always follow linear/proportional functions. Sometimes, like with wine, or stock cars, etc, a premium is paid for only incremental improvement, so there's that, too. When compe ion is involved, a 100% increase may be paid to gain only a fraction of a single percent advantage. A bad movie, "Focus", made something like this part of the plot, recently.

Again, still not sure what you're trying to needle me about. I didn't make any hyperbolic claims. Are you saying that Jimmer is, in fact, a good value based on a minimum salary (we can throw the 50k out, right, that's a nonstarter)?

I have not ruled out his success with the team, I just don't prefer him based upon what I know.

Maybe he will be a bargain at 1/7.5 the the price, but so might whoever it is besides Jimmer.

[HarlemHeat37]

McCallum isn't even close to Joseph as a player, and I'm not even a Cojo fan..

You could make the argument that he will a better fit for the Spurs, because Joseph's game didn't really mesh well with Parker and Ginobili, but he's certainly not a better player..

Jimmer is a 1-dimensional, White American player that couldn't even get a guaranteed deal..he's not going to make an impact in any facet, tbh..

[ceperez]

In terms of play making, I suspect that Jimmer is better than McCallum who is better than Cojo.

In terms of 3 point shooting, Jimmer is better than McCallum who is better than Cojo.

The big question more for Jimmer is whether he is so much better in these two categories that Spurs can ignore his deficiencies in his other categories. Parker is a great example, liability on defense but his offense makes up for this. Mills also has similar issue, great offense but suffer in defense.

[ceperez]

McCallum isn't even close to Joseph as a player, and I'm not even a Cojo fan..

You could make the argument that he will a better fit for the Spurs, because Joseph's game didn't really mesh well with Parker and Ginobili, but he's certainly not a better player..

Jimmer is a 1-dimensional, White American player that couldn't even get a guaranteed deal..he's not going to make an impact in any facet, tbh..

I am going to quote you on this 'coz you are going to regret this statement.

Watch this, and tell me if Cojo can do what you just saw:



Jimmer is a skilled player that so far can translate his game into the NBA level. The jury is still out as whether he can be serviceable.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I am going to quote you on this 'coz you are going to regret this statement.

Watch this, and tell me if Cojo can do what you just saw:



Jimmer is a skilled player that so far can translate his game into the NBA level. The jury is still out as whether he can be serviceable.

He won't regret it. He'll deny, and/or say "I knew he was going to be a better fit!". But, will still be fun watching Ray make some believers. So tired of Joseph.

[ceperez]

He won't regret it. He'll deny, and/or say "I knew he was going to be a better fit!". But, will still be fun watching Ray make some believers. So tired of Joseph.

For for some unknown reason, a lot of Spurs fans think really highly of Joseph. I for one never saw the talent. There are a ton of guards in the D-league that could do same things CoJo could do. Cojo was asked to run the offense but here never could figure out how to do it.

[Mnky]

Cojo was a huge luxury off the bench. You Cray to think otherwise. Ray will be suitable tho at replacing him if not go Further. Ray is more of a playmaker in a system than cojo was.

bruh, how many of them d league boys getting paid like cojo. Cray Cray.
As far as tons of d league guards being as good as cojo...

[Hoops Czar]

Watch this, and tell me if Cojo can do what you just saw:

You'll have to be more specific. Is there a particular play or segment of video I should be focusing my attention on?



Yeah, according to You Tube, he can do that. I wasn't a fan of CoJo and I for one, was glad to see him go. He's not an effective pg because he can't create shots for others and he can't play shooting guard because he's not a particularly good shooter. I'm not sure how that translates into 4 years/30M (maybe Masai Ujiri spends a lot of time watching You Tube highlight reels) but, that's Toronto's problem. Ray hasn't proven much at the NBA level either and showing a bunch of scoring highlights against one of the worst defenses in the NBA doesn't really strengthen your argument.

[ceperez]

You'll have to be more specific. Is there a particular play or segment of video I should be focusing my attention on?



Yeah, according to You Tube, he can do that. I wasn't a fan of CoJo and I for one, was glad to see him go. He's not an effective pg because he can't create shots for others and he can't play shooting guard because he's not a particularly good shooter. I'm not sure how that translates into 4 years/30M (maybe Masai Ujiri spends a lot of time watching You Tube highlight reels) but, that's Toronto's problem. Ray hasn't proven much at the NBA level either and showing a bunch of scoring highlights against one of the worst defenses in the NBA doesn't really strengthen your argument.

First, the highlights you show is an *entire* season of highlights. They consist mostly of below the rim acrobat layups where the ball fell into the hoop.

The highlights for McCallum are for just one game. You can see that McCallum can really get up in the air like Westbrook. Serveral fastbreak plays where there is a defensive player in good position and he uses his hops and athleticism to drive past the defender and score. Cojo just doesn't have the hops or speed to do that.

I'm not saying the McCallum is all-star material, all I'm saying is that his talent exceeds Cojo by a noticeable margin.

McCallum the Spurs PG is absolutely a better player than CoJo the Raptors PG even though Cojo is paid like 3 times as much.

[Vito Corleone]

I'm a huge Texas Longhorn fan, I think Cojo has exceeded all my expectations, but he isn't that great.

I think The biggest problem with Jimmer and McCallum is they were in Sacramento, one of the worst run organizations in sports. To think they are more or less than this is folley.

Much like Neal, you are going to see Cojo's production go way down and Toronto show some buyers remorse.

On the other end, I think Jimmer is going to blossom under Pop, and I think he will be a lot like Steve Kerr was for us back in 2003.

Not sure about McCallum but I know he will be a of a lot better than he was in Sacramento.

[Spurtacular]

Even with the pay difference it appears Simmons is a better player than CoJo at both ends of the floor and McCallum on the offensive end. Not sorry to see CoJo and his inability to really run an offense go. Jimmer if he makes it will likely be a modification of the Kerr, Neal, Bellinelli role. Put him in when offense is sucking and see if he's hot. That would give the Spurs two players to run at teams and see if either is hot. Three if you count Bonner.

Cojo's considerably better than Ray. Cojo can get to the hoop much better. Cojo's a much better defender. Ray's not even a better shooter than Cojo, which is the weakness in his game.

[timtonymanu]

people are hyping up our 3rd stringers way too much. The only one I'm impressed by so far is Simmons.

[Spurtacular]

I'm a huge Texas Longhorn fan, I think Cojo has exceeded all my expectations, but he isn't that great.

I think The biggest problem with Jimmer and McCallum is they were in Sacramento, one of the worst run organizations in sports. To think they are more or less than this is folley.

Much like Neal, you are going to see Cojo's production go way down and Toronto show some buyers remorse.

On the other end, I think Jimmer is going to blossom under Pop, and I think he will be a lot like Steve Kerr was for us back in 2003.

Not sure about McCallum but I know he will be a of a lot better than he was in Sacramento.

I haven't looked at Toronto's roster; so, I don't even know how likely it is that CoJo becomes a starter; but I think he'll have career numbers. At $7m, I doubt Toronto's gonna be having much buyer's remorse. He's out east; and he'll probably be a part of a winning formula.

As for Jimmer, I think the Spurs will be very smart to roll with him regardless of however he does in training camp. The dude has huge upside. With McCallum, you kind of get what you get (kind of like with CoJo). He's not going to suck; he's not going to be great. He'll be serviceable.

[tholdren]

I don't think most would agree with your opinion on this.

McCallum is definitely not better than anyone on the Spurs current Roster. period.

[Yuixafun]

Cojo is the better player, but Ray migt be more specifically suited for us at this juncture, his bb a en and ability to run the offense... Plus drive and kick, on top of being cheap... Is a windfall for the Spurs. Right player right time, right price, right at ude, and hungry for a better opportunity.

[Spurtacular]

McCallum is definitely not better than anyone on the Spurs current Roster. period.

Jimmer's per 36 career numbers are much better than Ray's per 36 career numbers; and it's not even close.

As a Jimmer fan I closely followed that Kings trainwreck. In the 2013-2014 season, Jimmer averaged 18.7 points per 36 on 47.3 FG (49.3 3FG) and 4.7 assts. But Thomas, Thornton, and Evans (backed by Cousins) did not like having to compete for minutes against Jimmer, and they'd freeze him out. So, as soon as McCallum had one serviceable game, the coach pushed McCallum 11.2 points per 36 and 4.8 assts on 37 FG (37 3FG) ahead of Jimmer in the rotation (Something similar happened with IT getting the starting nod over Jimmer in the first place). Does that make one whit of sense? "Coach" Malone even gave McCallum 10 starts to 0 for Jimmer.

I was happy for Jimmer to hopefully find a right fit last year until the market wasn't there for him, and he had to sign with Kings 2.0. And I'll tell everyone straight up that Jimmer's way f'ing better than Ray. You just watch and see what Jimmer does in a real system.

[Spurtacular]

Cojo is the better player, but Ray migt be more specifically suited for us at this juncture, his bb a en and ability to run the offense... Plus drive and kick, on top of being cheap... Is a windfall for the Spurs. Right player right time, right price, right at ude, and hungry for a better opportunity.

I agree with all of this. But I'll say I'd cut Ray and keep Jimmer if it came down to it. And it wouldn't even be a hard decision. However, I think Reggie Williams is the one that should go, tbh.

[exstatic]

They gave up an asset and he has a guaranteed deal. I can see no cir stance where McCallum gets cut.

[Spurtacular]

They gave up an asset and he has a guaranteed deal. I can see no cir stance where McCallum gets cut.

That's how most FO's work b/c they don't want the scrutiny. But the Spurs are more stable and should go with their best option regardless; assuming it makes the sense to take the financial hit, that's what I think they'd do.

[Chinook]

I am going to quote you on this 'coz you are going to regret this statement.

Watch this, and tell me if Cojo can do what you just saw:



Jimmer is a skilled player that so far can translate his game into the NBA level. The jury is still out as whether he can be serviceable.

Yes, Cory can do everything that McCallum did in that video and do it better.



Cory is WAAAAAAY better than McCallum. People who think Ray's going to go into the Spurs and be better than Joseph in really any way are going to be disappointed. He's cheaper and thusly a better play. But he's not a better player in a vacuum or in the Spurs system. And Fredette will be a pleasant surprise if he have a bigger impact than Reggie Williams did/has. By no means should anyone slot him in above any rotation player the Spurs have had over the last three or four years at this point.

[benefactor]

these takes by ceperez

You get the scroll right past from here on out breh.

[TheCerebral1]

McCallum has a really weird shot angle. But w/e. He looks fine.