First off, I didn't say RC was exactly lying, did I? In fact, I kind of said the opposite. But I did explain the strong limitations to your perceived take of what he said.
You don't know that Jimmer had not received any other contract offers (that's your assumption). In fact, I would guess that it is quite likely that some a bad team or two had made offers and he declined b/c he would rather be getting minutes in Europe for a year than being on the end of the bench on a bad team.
I don't know that Jimmer should be getting "better" when his minutes get cut even further. But last year, Jimmer had arguably his worst season as a pro and his per 36's with scrubs were still on par with McCallum, who was getting consistent minutes with rotation players.
I'll leave your CoJo analysis be other than to say I think he was a serviceable 3rd string PG; and I'm not saying that RM can't be. I'm really just telling you that Jimmer has a ton of upside that RM does not have, imo. And to recap, I argue the notion that RM is more polished; he's not.
I don't know man. Not every offensive guard needs to be an ankle breaker who nails fadeaways off the dribble to be a good scorer. If he gets his points by getting open he needs to be passed the ball so he can shoot it. Not everyone's an ace at creating most of their shots and that doesn't mean they're bad.
I think he would actually do better with the Spurs because of how he plays; however, his defense is clearly an issue he needs to address. Tbh, if SA drafted this guy in the 2nd round or something he could very well be a solid player by now. I don't think he would have turned out nearly as badly tbh.
Meant RM.
Didn't Tebow make it to a championship game; and he then didn't get quite a fair chance after the fact? Of course, I was never a Tebow fan, and I thought he was over-rated; and I admit his throwing issues aren't made up. But in many ways, he took mounds of unfair criticism by people with agendas. Much of that is similar to what Jimmer has faced.
I think you are mis-characterizing the idea that Jimmer needs people to get him open looks... Who is saying that? Jimmer was 94th percentile in pick n' roll; and he is pretty good at creating his own shot for what it's worth. Rather the criticism you refer to is teammates not hitting him for open looks. That's legitimate criticism. Imagine if you had players in the Spurs system routinely missing DG, Mills or Manu for open threes (while taking low percentage plays). Pop wouldn't allow that to happen on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, Jimmer has not had the advantage of not being in dysfunctional systems though.
As for Eddie, you can argue his shot is better at this point. The way he shot in SL, I don't know who does have a better shot necessarily. But you only bring him up if you think he's going to get a critical mass of minutes. So, I think the Spurs are better off letting him marinate for another year in d-league.
Your expectations are a too high if you think the Spurs will allow Jimmer to create his own shot. That privilege is reserved to only a few Spurs.
Jimmer needs to accept this fact and learn to play as a role player (see: Steve Kerr). If his ego cannot accommodate that reality, then he will be booted out of the NBA. There will be zero NBA teams that will give him the reigns to create his own shot.
I really was referring to Jjimmer's ability to perform in the pick n' roll or create with the ball (often when offense breaks down or shot clock running down) rather than just hit open shots or come off screens. I wasn't suggesting that the Spurs would be running Iso's for him.
I think you want to relegate Jimmer to a Steve Kerr player even though he is capable of more (I doubt Pop will be so shortsighted). I'm sure Jimmer will do whatever Pop expects of him. This isn't about his ego. He is one of the more humble players in the NBA frankly. Overly humble IMO.
Put me in the Chinook camp, regarding Eddie. I hope Eddie gets a chance to compete in camp with Jimmer. I wish both luck, each having a bit of an uphill battle, but Eddie's shooting is beautiful, whereas Jimmer is maybe much better at creating and hitting on the go, but Eddie might be better in a corner or on the edge like an assassin. I don't know we need Jimmer running around chucking. But, I am hopeful for him nonetheless.
Pretty sure I could have said the same about some of the things you've been saying. Keep it classy San Diego. We have a greater need at pure point guard than we do at shooting guard. Period. Jimmer is not a better point guard than Ray, nor is he going to be a better two guard than several of our other two guards. That is not a dumb answer even if you are too dumb to understand it.
McCallum 2.5 assist to turnover ratio, as someone else quoted to you earlier, Jimmer 1.5. And twice as long in the NBA to acclimate himself to the game as Ray.
I don't know in what context I used the word polished. I am not sure that I did. He's a second year player on a bad team. I see him as pretty raw, with a lot of upside in The Spurs org. Jimmer may have some, too, but he plays more naturally as a two, undersized, of which we already have one, proven, undersized, and a few others in Green, Manu, and Simmons. I Hope he turns out great for us, but he is redundant, fighting an uphill battle to sit on the bench.
Of course he could have turned down a million dollar offer to accept a camp invite instead. Anything is possible, however unlikely it went under the radar of the media, but sure, I guess he could have turned down some super secret deals.
We agree on Cojo. He just played 1/2 string too much to be our 3 string guard. And, he got paid too much to keep, of course.
RM v JF upside. We will have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by littlecoyotecoin; 07-26-2015 at 07:36 PM.
Why do folks keep saying he's a humble player when we keep hearing Jimmer fans demanding that he get more touches?
If Jimmer indeed was a guy who has 'gotten over himself' is a high percentage 3 point shooter, then he should already have a guaranteed contract with the Spurs. Unfortunately, he does not because the Spurs are not convinced.
Spurs signed Neal for a multi-year contract on a couple of summer league games. The Spurs for some reason are more careful with Jimmer. If Spurs have doubts about your game then they sign you for an unguaranteed contract... at this time, Spurs are not convinced about Jimmer's ability.
Let's put it this way, Spurs confidence in Jimmer is about the same as Spurs cofindence of Ndoye. That's damn low confidence level.
Also, regarding your comments about Buford, you said something to the effect of "he can say anything in an interview".
What do you mean by this?
http://www.nba.com/video/games/spurs/2015/07/13/20150712-sl-rc-buford-interview.nba/#$/video/games/spurs/2015/07/13/20150712-sl-rc-buford-interview.nba/index.html
The interview can be found, there. He said that RM can probably run the offense better than CJ, if he was on the free agent market he would have been difficult for us to get, and that he and CJ will have a similar roll, RM starting some nights and playing similar minutes (1500). What are you saying about those comments when you say he can say "anything"? I don't understand. They seem fairly straight forward. I don't think he was using guile. I take those statements at face value. How do you think I should interpret them?
Crystal clear what Bufford said.... folks can be so dense... but it is obvious from Spurs current actions and statements that
(1) RM is better than CJ
(2) RM is expect to play similar minutes as CJ
(3) RM was a bargain
(4) JF isn't a convincing bargain at the vet minimum.
Last season, Shelvin Mack, John Lucas III, Ronnie Price, Mathew D, and Nate Robinson were five of the top ten guards in assist to turnover ratio. But none of them are close to being top ten guards. It's a fairly cosmetic stat. And in the Spurs system, I'd rather have the guy (Jimmer) who can nail the three than the guy who has to defer cos he's a less than average three shooter (McCallum).
And you're ignorantly speaking of Ray acclimating himself faster than Jimmer. His first two year stats are worse than Jimmer's first two year stats despite RM getting more consistent minutes.
One got a contract and one got a partial contract. I already know what the spurs prefer.
I should say picked up a contract.
Because Jimmer and his fans are two different en ies. Jimmer is one of the most humble guys in the NBA. A lot of times, that word is thrown around I realize. But that's the reality. His fans are not going to be shy about arguing injustices though.
'Getting over yourself' automatically equals a long term contract with a team you've just signed with? I don't understand that logic.
Spurs were smart to sign Neal to multiple years (weren't as deep then, btw). And they were smart to sign Simmons to a two year contract as well (maybe three years would have been better). Spurs did what they did with Jimmer cos he's the 16th contract (assuming Reggie Williams still signed; I've heard conflicting reports). Not signing him to multi years was not an indictment. The business is just not as black and white as you're trying to make it out to be.
Some one sounds like a jimmy follower
The difference between a player with a lot of talent and a player with talent that becomes a Spur. "Getting over oneself" is a very big deal for the Spurs.
Ray almost doubled Jimmer's three point shooting last year, lol. And Ray isn't predominantly a jump shooter. Jimmer is supposed to be. It's his one true virtue, supposedly. Look, I was supportive of Daye because he was 6'11" and could shoot it, handle the ball and dribble/pass a little. I really liked some aspects of his game, but number one was shooting. He came in and couldn't shoot worth a damn. All Jimmer's secondary virtues, and I agree he has some, will be ignored cast out, if he can't do the one thing: shoot. He's coming off .188 from 3. Unless he totally lights it up in training camp, they probably won't care that he can also dribble a little, and pass a little...he should be able to, he's a 6'2" guard that doesn't play defense! So, don't open that can of worms. Cross your fingers they go in for him in TC. Asst/TO, if it doesn't support your argument, find a few other guards that aren't good and have good ratios...boom...stat is bad throw it out. Those guards might not be good, but they aren't bad BECAUSE they they have lots of assists in comparison to their relatively few turnovers. They're bad DESPITE having a good ratio. Sheesh. But, if you have a bad ratio, that is definitely NOT GOOD. No one wants a guard with lots of turnovers and relatively few assists. No. You don't get to throw out the stat because it makes Jimmer look bad.
Don't you get it? If Jimmer was such a steal, then picking him up for the #15 slot would be a no-brainer. Apparently it isn't an easy decision, Spurs are not convinced.
Which is interesting, if Spurs cut Jimmer, then it is practically the end of his career in the NBA. Why? Because if the Spurs can't 'fix' Jimmer, then nobody can.
RC simply said that that if RM was in the free agent market, that he would have been a "hard get." All's he's saying is he thinks someone would've likely paid more than the league minimum for him. If anyone would have paid two or three million or more for RM in that hypothetical situation, I doubt the Spurs would've matched. He'd have had to've agreed to a minimum contract just like Jimmer did.
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