Illegal poaching =/= legal big game hunting
Oh yes because African countries have such a great reputation for having zero corruption and separating legal from illegal, whether that's poaching or soccer or whatever else.you are so ing stupid and hypocritical I can't believe I'm even responding to your idiocy
Why do you think the organizers of the Cecil raid are under arrest and the American dentist is a fugitive?
You are the one arguing that killing one can't save thousands and you've fallen completely on your face and have yet to refute my point. Neither one of us would personally participate in such a hunt, but one of us knows the benefits to the hunted species. Again, argue the numbers I presented. Or deflect more and bring up guns, or soccer, or anything else to avoid the question posed to you.Oh yes because African countries have such a great reputation for having zero corruption and separating legal from illegal, whether that's poaching or soccer or whatever else.
Why do you think the organizers of the Cecil raid are under arrest and the American dentist is a fugitive?
You do realize these paid for game hunts are helping to reverse the decline of said species from the illegal poaching?
So you expect me to read your wall of un-formatted text (which I actually did) yet you won't read my counterpoint, formatted wall of text (which completely destroyed your "point")?
I kindly quoted the huge boost in game populations got, specifically the White rhino. Kindly highlight your claimed decline from paid for game hunting for me.
So the money helps conservation. Great. Why didn't he just donate money?
He obviously gets off on it. But you and I are not donating that type of money towards conservation so I don't think it's really our place to judge those bringing in 11 million+ dollars into a desperate economy. I don't support the actual hunting, but you can't deny the benefits to the hunted species. Seriously someone refute the population increases of the hunted game if not for paid for hunting.
A smokescreen for corruption and poaching
Hunters prize rare trophies. To get them, many pay bribes to exceed the hunting quota, shoot the wrong species, age or gender, to use illegal methods or to hunt without a permit. (34)
Trophy hunting depends on effective state regulation and extensive scientific monitoring of animal populations. Neither is feasible in Africa, perceived to be the world's least developed and most corrupt continent. Opening up even a limited legal trade creates a smokescreen for poachers which is almost impossible to police. Prior to 1986, when the whaling moratorium was introduced, legal quotas were widely used as cover for poaching, driving some species near to extinction. The same is happening with trophy hunting of endangered species. (35)
I'll quote this again since you've provided no link or quote to refute the population gains.It’s encouraging that trophy hunters seem willing to take conservation-related issues into consideration when choosing a tour operator, but it is possible that they were simply providing the researchers with the answers that would cast them in the best light. That’s a typical concern for assessments that rely on self-report. Better evidence would come from proof that hunting can be consistent with actual, measurable conservation-related benefits for a species.
Is there such evidence? According to a 2005 paper by Nigel Leader-Williams and colleagues in the Journal of International Wildlife Law and Policy the answer is yes. Leader-Williams describes how the legalization of white rhinoceros hunting in South Africa motivated private landowners to reintroduce the species onto their lands. As a result, the country saw an increase in white rhinos from fewer than one hundred individuals to more than 11,000, even while a limited number were killed as trophies.
In a 2011 letter to Science magazine, Leader-Williams also pointed out that the implementation of controlled, legalized hunting was also beneficial for Zimbabwe’s elephants. “Implementing trophy hunting has doubled the area of the country under wildlife management relative to the 13% in state protected areas,” thanks to the inclusion of private lands, he says. “As a result, the area of suitable land available to elephants and other wildlife has increased, reversing the problem of habitat loss and helping to maintain a sustained population increase in Zimbabwe’s already large elephant population.”
Show me the same is happening to game species as was whales. I want numbers and you refuse to give them.
Here you go:
These two, out of 84 links I provided (see next post), disprove your wall of text
http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/94/5/editorial.html
http://www.traffic.org/general-repor...c_pub_gen9.pdf
(1) Sims-Castley, Rebecca, Kerley, Graham I H, and Geach, Beverley, "A Questionnaire -Based Assessment Of The Socio-Economic Significance Of Ecotourism-Based Private Game Reserves In The Eastern Cape", Terrestrial Ecology Research Unit, November 2004
(2) Ibid.
(3) University of Oxford, Zoology Department, Wildlife Conservations Research Unit,http://www.wildcru.org/links/hwangelions/mission.htm
(4) John Mbaria, 'Game Carnage in Tanzania Alarms Kenya', The East African, 04 February 2002,http://www.nationaudio.com/News/EastAfrican/11022002/Regional/Regional15.html
(5) Personal correspondence (November 2004)
(6) Wild About Killing 2', League Against Cruel Sports, April 2004,
http://www.bloodybusiness.com/trophy_hunting/Wild_about_killing_2.pdf
(7) Michael de Alessi, 'Private Conservation and Black Rhinos in Zimbabwe: The SavŽ Valley and Bubiana Conservancies', Compe ive Enterprise Ins ute, 01 January 2000
(8) Ian Michler, 'To Snap or Snipe?', Africa Geographic, 02 October 2002
(9) Ibid.
(10) http://www.garethpatterson.com/
(11) Personal correspondence (November 2004)
(12) South African Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism press release 22 November 2004
(13) Zvi Bar'el, 'In the Shadow of Kilimanjaro', Haaretz, 28 October 2004,
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/491806.html
(14) Michele Pickover, 'Entrepreneurs in Death: Killing as Sport in South Africa', Xwe African Wild Life Investigation & Research Centre
(15) Personal correspondence (November 2004)
(16) 'Comments on the Draft Policy on Enhancement of Survival Permits for Foreign Species Listed Under the Endangered Species Act', Defenders of Wildlife and Species Survival Network, 17 October 2003,
http://www.ssn.org/es/statements/Group%20Comments%20on%20ESP%20Draft%20Policy.pdf
(17) 'Is 'sanctuary' an illusion?', Animal People, 7 August 2002
(18) 'Game Ranch Profitability in South Africa', Absa Economic Research, Game Management Africa, 2003,http://www.gameranching.co.za/gameranching/publications/grp2003.pdf
(19) Michele Pickover, 'Entrepreneurs in Death: Killing as Sport in South Africa', Xwe
(20) Personal correspondence (November 2004)
(21) Address by Chris Mercer of the Kalahari Raptor Centre to Wildlife & Environment Society of South Africa, 28 August 2003
(22) 'Big Game, Big Bucks: The Alarming Growth of the American Trophy Hunting Industry', The Humane Society of the United States and Humane Society International, 1995.
(23) Michele Pickover, 'Entrepreneurs in Death: Killing as Sport in South Africa', Xwe African Wild Life Investigation & Research Centre.
(24) Urquhart and McCendrick, 'Survey of permanent wound tracts in the carcasses of culled wild red deer in Scotland', The Veterinary Record, 19 April 2003
(25) Personal correspondence (November 2004)
(26) 'South African Tribe Regains its Land for Conservation', Andrew Maykuth, The Philadelphia Inquirer, 30/05/98
(27) 'Cites approves rhino hunting quotas for Namibia and SA', The Namibian (AFP), 5 October 2004,http://www.namibian.com.na/2004/october/national/046CEB06CD.html
(28) Michele Pickover, 'Entrepreneurs in Death: Killing as Sport in South Africa', Xwe
(29) Personal correspondence (November 2004)
(30) Possible boycott discussion do ent -Drafted in discussion with the animal welfare community by Chris Mercer and Beverley Pervan of the Kalahari Raptor Centre, authors of the book "For the Love of Wildlife."http://www.raptor.co.za/news/discdoc.htm
(31) 'The Killing Fields of Loliondo', Maasai Environmental Resource Coalition, April 2002
(32) Josphat Ngonyo, director of Youth for Conservation in 'Bush Policy and Bushmeat', Animal People, October 2003
(33) John Mbaria, 'State is Handfed New Bid to Buy Out KWS', The Daily Nation, 07 August 2004
(34) Doris Hofer, 'The Lion's Share of the Hunt: Trophy Hunting and Conservation - A Review of the Legal Eurasian Tourist Hunting Market and Trophy Trade Under Cites', Traffic Europe Regional Report, 2002.
(35) ANIMAL PEOPLE - June 1994 - Volume III, #5http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/94/5/editorial.html
(36) Clifton Merritt, Animal People, May 1994
(37) Doris Hofer, 'The Lion's Share of the Hunt: Trophy Hunting and Conservation - A Review of the Legal Eurasian Tourist Hunting Market and Trophy Trade Under Cites', Traffic Europe Regional Report, 2002.
(38) 'BC Grizzly Hunt is 'Difficult to Defend' Warns Biologist Hired by the Safari Club', Animal People 01 February 2002
(39) 'The Killing Fields of Loliondo', Maasai Environmental Resource Coalition (MERC), May 2002
(40) Ibid.
(41) Chris Tomlinson, 'Big Game Hunting Threatening Africa', Associated Press, 20 March 2002
(42) 'The Killing Fields of Loliondo', Maasai Environmental Resource Coalition, May 2002
(43) Chris Tomlinson, 'Big Game Hunting Threatening Africa', Associated Press, 20 March 2002
(44) Ibid.
(45) Ted Botha, 'Killing the Killing Fields of Loliondo',http://www.tedbotha.com/raw_pdf/web-24.pdf
(46) Personal correspondence (November 2004)
(47) Personal correspondence (November 2004)
(48) Report by afrol News 30 November 2004 (http://www.afrol.com/articles/14444)
(49) 'Safari Operators Lose 90 per cent of Their Game', Zimbabwe Independent, 21 June 2002
(50) Winter, PE, Sport hunting in Tanzania: Costs and benefits. Reproduced for the Zoological Society of London. 30pp. Undated.
(51) Martin Hutter, 'Utilization of Wild Living Animals, Conservation and Sustainable Development: Contradiction in Terms or a Promising Approach?', Pro Wildlife, 2002
(52) Gareth Patterson, personal correspondence (November 2004) andhttp://www.bornfree.org.uk/big.cat/bcatnews
(53) Michele Pickover, 'Entrepreneurs in Death: Killing as Sport in South Africa', Xwe,
(54) University of Oxford, Zoology Department, Wildlife Conservations Research Unit,
http://www.wildcru.org/links/hwangelions/mission.htm
(55) The Bear Society, http://www.bearsmart.com/bearFacts/Mating.html
(56) Mun Ya Wan Leopard Project, Monash University,http://www.biolsci.monash.edu.au/Honours/leopards/kezi.htm
(57) Martin Hutter, 'Utilization of Wild Living Animals, Conservation and Sustainable Development: Contradiction in Terms or a Promising Approach?', Pro Wildlife, 2002.
(58) Michele Pickover, 'Entrepreneurs in Death: Killing as Sport in South Africa', Xwe,
(59) University of Oxford, Zoology Department, Wildlife Conservations Research Unit,
http://www.wildcru.org/links/hwangelions/mission.htm
(60) Ian Michler, 'Botswana's Great Lion Debate', Africa Geographic, 01 October 2001
(61) Slotow, Rob, et al, 'Older bull elephants control young males: Orphaned male adolescents go on killing sprees if mature males aren't around', Nature, 23 November 2000, www.nature.com/cgitaf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v408/n6811/abs/408425a0_fs.html
(62) Josphat Ngonyo, director of Youth for Conservation in 'Bush Policy and Bushmeat', Animal People, October 2003
(63) Ian Michler, 'Botswana's Great Lion Debate', Africa Geographic, 01 January 2001 & Martin Hutter, 'Utilization of Wild Living Animals, Conservation and Sustainable Development: Contradiction in Terms or a Promising Approach?', Pro Wildlife, 2002.
(64) Ibid.
(65) Martin Hutter, 'Utilization of Wild Living Animals, Conservation and Sustainable Development: Contradiction in Terms or a Promising Approach?', Pro Wildlife, 2002.
(66) 'Comments on the Draft Policy on Enhancement of Survival Permits for Foreign Species Listed Under the Endangered Species Act', Defenders of Wildlife and Species Survival Network, 17/10/03
(67) http://www.wildcru.org/links/hwangelions
(68) Richard Leakey and Virginia Morell, 'Wildlife Wars: My Fight to Save Africa's Natural Treasures', 2001.
(69) Personal correspondence, Louise Joubert, SanWild Wildlife Rehabilitation Centre and Sanctuary,http://www.sanwild.org
(70) Possible boycott discussion do ent -Drafted in discussion with the animal welfare community by Chris Mercer and Beverley Pervan of the Kalahari Raptor Centre, authors of the book "For the Love of Wildlife."http://www.raptor.co.za/news/discdoc.htm
(71) This has been widely do ented. Eg. Kalahari Raptor Centre, Michler, Xwe.
(72) 'Rotten Meat… Or Just Unfair Game?', Ian Michler, Africa Geographic, 02/06/02
(73) This has been widely do ented. Eg. Kalahari Raptor Centre, Michler, Xwe.
(74) Personal correspondence (November 2004) with Louise Joubert of Sanwild
(75) Address by Chris Mercer of the Kalahari Raptor Centre to Wildlife & Environment Society of South Africa, 28/08/03
(76) 'Norway Offers Deal to Africa 'You Kill Elephants, We'll Kill Whales'', Animal People, 06/97
(77) Norms and standards for the sustainable use of large predators. Government Gazette 25090, Notice 874 of 13 June 2003 as cited by The Environment Movements in South Africa: An Analysis of Animal Based Issues, Campaigns and Organisations August 2003 Research Report for the Centre for Civil Society.
(78) 'Canned Lion Update', Wildlife Action Group news, 28/08/04
(79) http://www.wag.co.za
(80) Personal correspondence (November 2004)
(81) 'South African Tribe Regains its Land for Conservation', Andrew Maykuth, The Philadelphia Inquirer, 30/05/98
(82) Ibid.
(83) http://www.esok.org
(84) http://www.lewa.org
(85) Correspondence between Environment Minister ****** Morley and Dr Doug Naysmith MP, 11 August 2004.
I'm not reading 72 pages of your link tonight, try using your own words.
Leader-Williams describes how the legalization of white rhinoceros hunting in South Africa motivated private landowners to reintroduce the species onto their lands. As a result, the country saw an increase in white rhinos from fewer than one hundred individuals to more than 11,000, even while a limited number were killed as trophies.In a 2011 letter to Science magazine, Leader-Williams also pointed out that the implementation of controlled, legalized hunting was also beneficial for Zimbabwe’s elephants. “Implementing trophy hunting has doubled the area of the country under wildlife management relative to the 13% in state protected areas,” thanks to the inclusion of private lands, he says. “As a result, the area of suitable land available to elephants and other wildlife has increased, reversing the problem of habitat loss and helping to maintain a sustained population increase in Zimbabwe’s already large elephant population.”
if not for the hunting, what led to the increase in the animal populations? Again, in your own words.
Well if you are doing it for the sole reason of preservation do it in a subtle manner. No need to take pictures with a defenseless animal and think you are the man. When in actuality you are a little .
Just another white man who feels superior with a weapon.
I just don't get the thrill of the kill. There is plenty of blame to go around but bottom line is the Benjamins. He whom has, takes.
TPR has an article on CWD, chronic wasting diseases(brain rot), is now a threat in TX farmed white tailed deer in the Hill Country.
http://tpr.org/post/chronic-wasting-...-deer-industry
They mentioned that breeding has produced big males with huge racks. The males sell for about $30K. But then how much does a Great White Hunter pay to shoot a $30K animal? I suppose room and board, booze, is included, and maybe a couple s.
The entire business of less rich people paying many $Ks to shoot penned up animals is so silly
hunting business raises endangered animals to kill them. gun fellator logic!
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/dent...e+Raw+Story%29
CCA is a good group.
the strategy for raising money is brilliant:
Liquor up a bunch of guys who are sort of fisherman. Auction off fishing trips that are hugely overpriced. Let them show off to each other by outbidding one another for already overpriced guided trips. Use the money for conservation efforts. Oh, ya gotta buy a table for your business at the event. Many of the businesses that buy tables do it for the fishermen in that business. They also supply models at CCA events to serve drinks. So one can also observe a bunch of fisherman failing to haul in pretty girls walking around in pumps that make them 9' tall.
The fisherman is among the most noble human American on Earth.
So there's that ramble for the day. I will now go.
Walter is receiving death threats.
http://www.ibtimes.com/who-walter-pa...hreats-2028044
Boots, would you tase him broh?
A picture of loneliness: you are looking at the last male northern white rhino
The image of Sudan the rhino, surrounded by the armed guards who protect him from poachers, shows how little humans have learned since the ice age
surrounded by the armed guards who protect him from poachers, shows how little humans have learned since the ice
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/12/last-male-northern-white-rhino
There Are Now Only 4 Northern White Rhinos Left On Earth
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0a13f9d1a83bb
ITT: Lib s bash one man for killing one animal. Meanwhile, not a peep from the left on how their beloved PETA kills thousands of animals per year.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2979220
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