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  1. #451
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    UAW assembly line (basically repe ive unskilled labor) wage averages compensation of $70 an hour after including benefits and legacy retirement costs. Trump does have a point that it is not compe ive with other markets. That's pretty hard to argue.

    It is what it is.
    not the new hires. the bankruptcy forced the unions to hire new workers at under $20/hour, iow, poverty wages

    http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...ing-convention

  2. #452
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    UAW assembly line (basically repe ive unskilled labor) wage averages compensation of $70 an hour after including benefits and legacy retirement costs. Trump does have a point that it is not compe ive with other markets. That's pretty hard to argue.

    It is what it is.
    Do you just pull numbers out of your ass?

    And just how do those Germans make the world's best cars with all their socialism and unionization?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederic...twice-as-much/

    In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. Yet Germany’s big three car companies—BMW, Daimler DDAIY +% (Mercedes-Benz), and Volkswagen—are very profitable.

    How can that be? The question is explored in a new article from Remapping Debate, a public policy e-journal. Its author, Kevin C. Brown, writes that “the salient difference is that, in Germany, the automakers operate within an environment that precludes a race to the bottom; in the U.S., they operate within an environment that encourages such a race.”


    There are “two overlapping sets of ins utions” in Germany that guarantee high wages and good working conditions for autoworkers. The first is IG Metall, the country’s equivalent of the United Automobile Workers. Virtually all Germany’s car workers are members, and though they have the right to strike, they “hardly use it, because there is an elaborate system of conflict resolution that regularly is used to come to some sort of compromise that is acceptable to all parties,” according to Horst Mund, an IG Metall executive. The second ins ution is the German cons ution, which allows for “works councils” in every factory, where management and employees work together on matters like shop floor conditions and work life. Mund says this guarantees cooperation, “where you don’t always wear your management pin or your union pin.”



    Mund points out that this goes
    against all mainstream wisdom of the neo-liberals. We have strong unions, we have strong social security systems, we have high wages. So, if I believed what the neo-liberals are arguing, we would have to be bankrupt, but apparently this is not the case. Despite high wages . . . despite our possibility to influence companies, the economy is working well in Germany.
    As Michael Maibach, president and chief executive of the European American Business Council, puts it, union-management relations in the U.S. are “adversarial,” whereas in Germany they’re “collaborative.”


    Does such a happy relationship survive when German automakers set up shop in the U.S.? No. As a historian observes in the article, “BMW is a German company and it has a very German hierarchy and management system in Germany,” yet “when they are operating in Spartanburg [in South Carolina] they have become very, very easily adaptable to Spartanburg business culture.” At Volkswagen’s Chattanooga plant, the nonunionized new employees get $14.50 an hour, which rises to $19.50 after three years.


    The article’s author, Kevin C. Brown, asked Claude Barfield, a scholar with the American Enterprise Ins ute, why the German car companies behave so differently in the U.S. He answered, “Because they can get away with it so far.”


    Read the complete Remapping Debate article here.

  3. #453
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    Do you just pull numbers out of your ass?

    And just how do those Germans make the world's best cars with all their socialism and unionization?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederic...twice-as-much/
    you asshole.

    From FactCheck.Org

    the average GM, Ford and Chrysler worker receives compensation – wages, bonuses, overtime and paid time off – of about $40 an hour. Add in benefits such as health insurance and pensions and you get to about $55. Another $15 or so in benefits to retirees (known as "legacy costs") brings the number to roughly $70.

  4. #454
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    you asshole.

    From FactCheck.Org
    2008?

    Has anything changed in the industry since then?

    And how do benefits to retirees count for current employee pay?

  5. #455
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    Trump killed it in New Hampshire tonight!

  6. #456
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    Has anything changed in the industry since then?

    And how do benefits to retirees count for current employee pay?
    http://www.autonews.com/article/2015...ing-convention

  7. #457
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    you asshole.

    From FactCheck.Org
    Hilarious how you cherry-pick your information. I'm sure it was simply an accident that you eliminated these facts from the exact same article:

    A report from the conservative Heritage Foundation, opposing the auto industry bailout, said that members of the United Auto Workers union "earn $75 an hour in wages and benefits – almost triple the earnings of the average private sector worker." Later in the report, it’s phrased this way: "The vast majority of UAW workers in Detroit today still earn $75 an hour."

    That figure has caught hold with some conservatives, and it seeps into media coverage from time to time as well. A few examples: At a Nov. 19 House Financial Services Committeehearing on a possible bailout for the auto industry, Alabama Republican Rep. Spencer Bachus said, "Even with recent changes, the average hourly wage at General Motors is still $75 an hour. …" Two of his GOP colleagues on the panel made similar statements. And in a Nov. 18 column in the New York Times, business reporter Andrew Ross Sorkin wrote, "At GM, as of 2007, the average worker was paid about $70 an hour, including health care and pension costs."


    The problem is, that’s just not true. The automakers say that the average wage earned by its unionized workers is about $29 per hour. So how does that climb to more than $70? Add in benefits: life insurance, health care, pension and so on. But not just the benefits that the current workers actually receive – after all, it’s pretty rare for the value of a benefits package to add up to more than wages paid, even with a really, really good health plan in place. What’s causing the number to balloon is the cost of providing benefits to tens of thousands of retired auto workers and their surviving spouses.

    The automakers arrived at the $70+ figure by adding up all the costs associated with providing wages and benefits to current and retired workers and dividing the total by the number of hours worked by current employees

  8. #458
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    President-Elect Trump dropping truthbombs left and right:


  9. #459
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  10. #460
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    CN actually falling for this

  11. #461
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    CN actually falling for this
    You actually voting for Hillary and her emails.

  12. #462
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    You actually voting for Hillary and her emails.
    You see, I actually have intellectual integrity. I would never vote for Hillary, and have made that clear.

    You on the other hand actually think Donald ing Trump is a serious candidate for President of "the greatest country in the history of the universe".

    Did you vote for Palin?

  13. #463
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    The Donald is rolling out his plans on immigration and taxes early next month:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...297_story.html

  14. #464
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    You see, I actually have intellectual integrity. I would never vote for Hillary, and have made that clear.
    So who are you voting for, then? That socialist nutjob Bernie "The Bomber" Sanders?

    You on the other hand actually think Donald ing Trump is a serious candidate for President of "the greatest country in the history of the universe".
    Trump himself is actually taking it seriously and is in it to win it:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...5d8_story.html

  15. #465
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    The Donald is rolling out his plans on immigration and taxes early next month:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...297_story.html
    So are you going to vote for trump or write in Ron Paul?

    Your last proclamation was a write in for Paul. State your position.

  16. #466
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    So are you going to vote for trump or write in Ron Paul?

    Your last proclamation was a write in for Paul.
    I'll vote for Trump if he's on the ballot and write in Ron if he's not.

    State your position.
    The irony of you ordering others to do this is rich when you have zero takes of your own and just whine about how "unintelligent" everyone else's is.

  17. #467
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    So who are you voting for, then? That socialist nutjob Bernie "The Bomber" Sanders?


    Trump himself is actually taking it seriously and is in it to win it:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...5d8_story.html
    What part of Trump's tax policy do you agree with and which part do you disagree with?

  18. #468
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    What part of Trump's tax policy do you agree with and which part do you disagree with?
    I like his idea of getting rid of the estate tax and reducing the capital gains tax.

  19. #469
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    I'll vote for Trump if he's on the ballot and write in Ron if he's not.



    The irony of you ordering others to do this is rich when you have zero takes of your own and just whine about how "unintelligent" everyone else's is.
    What are you talking about? I've got plenty of takes of my own. I think you're a total moron, a wildly illogical ideologue and a plagiarist.

    You pay Ron Paul a subscription to tell you what to think and you have absolutely no ability to look at ramifications of policy positions at a macro level.

    You're one of the most ridiculous posters on the political forum.

  20. #470
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    What are you talking about? I've got plenty of takes of my own. I think you're a total moron, a wildly illogical ideologue and a plagiarist.

    You pay Ron Paul a subscription to tell you what to think and you have absolutely no ability to look at ramifications of policy positions at a macro level.

    You're one of the most ridiculous posters on the political forum.
    I don't pay anyone a subscription. I'm sure you're a proud subscriber to DailyKos, though.

    Thanks for proving my point, BTW. Your entire presence on this forum is spent on the political board whimpering about how people who apparently disagree with you are "ridiculous" and "unintelligent." Meanwhile, you are by far one of the dumbest libcucks on the site. You make Boutons' contributions look worthwhile by comparison.

    "Dissenting views trigger me, they must be stupid!"

  21. #471
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    I don't pay anyone a subscription. I'm sure you're a proud subscriber to DailyKos, though.

    Thanks for proving my point, BTW. Your entire presence on this forum is spent on the political board whimpering about how people who apparently disagree with you are "ridiculous" and "unintelligent." Meanwhile, you are by far one of the dumbest libcucks on the site. You make Boutons' contributions look worthwhile by comparison.

    "Dissenting views trigger me, they must be stupid!"
    Dude. You just said you're going to either vote for Donald Trump or write in Ron Paul. You might as well write in James Madison. You are a stupid man.

  22. #472
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    I like his idea of getting rid of the estate tax and reducing the capital gains tax.
    You do realize that he's not just "getting rid of the estate tax" but instead taxing everyone worth $10m+ at 14.25%, right?

    I would impose a one-time, 14.25% tax on individuals and trusts with a net worth over $10 million. For individuals, net worth would be calculated minus the value of their principal residence. That would raise $5.7 trillion in new revenue, which we would use to pay off the entire national debt [and shore up the Social Security Trust Fund].

  23. #473
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    I like his idea of getting rid of the estate tax and reducing the capital gains tax.
    So he doesn't want people with assets to be taxed. It certainly wouldn't create a country with a fixed class-system of landed gentry and powerless peons like the one our forefathers wished to escape. And it's certainly the kind of legislation the majority of US citizens are CLAMORING for.

    He also doesn't want to tax illegal immigrants, but instead hopes to build a wall between MX and the US that he promises MX will pay for while expecting current illegals to self-deport. As somebody who worked with the MX govt for 15 years, I promise you MX won't pay to do anything for the US unless the US pays them -- in tutto and then some -- for the trouble. MX citizens might generally be kind and generous people, but the oligarchs who lord over them are among the canniest, most venal ers on earth. As for self-deportation... if you come from a corrupt country where misery/poverty is guaranteed to your sons but are making good money and enjoying a better life-style in a less corrupt country, are you going to self-deport yourself? Sure you will.

    He's gonna release his tax and immigration plans NEXT MONTH? Why is he running if he didn't have policy agendas in place BEFORE he declared? Maybe it's because he wants to be Prez more than he cares how to be Prez.

    Funny thing about the Donald that doesn't seem to get a lot of press: he also supports universal healthcare. So he's pro-business, but he wants to nationalize/destabilize a whole industry that employs 12+M citizens. He hasn't said where the money to fund the program and offset the losses of healthcare workers should come from, he hasn't articulated how he would shore up the US economy to take the hit. I can promise you all day long, but if I don't tell you how I intend to honor my promises, why should I deserve your respect/loyalty?

    Dude is running for POTUS on blustering hot air alone, chief. Even Clinton and Perry have clearer agendas, and both are about as grotesque as US politics get.

  24. #474
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    "nationalize/destabilize a whole industry that employs 12+M citizens"

    red herring. that "whole industry" is raping America, raping more (ratcheting up prices way above inflaton) every year, over our entire lifetimes, leaving retirement underfinanced.

    That ing industry needs to be "destabilised" by compe ion from no-profit govt insurance AND no-profit govt health providing.

  25. #475
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    "nationalize/destabilize a whole industry that employs 12+M citizens"

    red herring. that "whole industry" is raping America, raping more (ratcheting up prices way above inflaton) every year, over our entire lifetimes, leaving retirement underfinanced.

    That ing industry needs to be "destabilised" by compe ion from no-profit govt insurance AND no-profit govt health providing.
    Cool economic policy, bro -- now how do you pay for it? And don't get a hair up your bum assuming I'm unsympathetic to the idea of universal healthcare.

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