I'm not as high on Anderson's play-making ability as others so I left him out but he is an option as well. I'm high on Simmons so that's my first option to play next to Manu and Patty. Simmons seems like the better fit to take advantage of the Spacing that will come with Patty, Manu, Diaw, and West (not that they'll play all together very often). Also should be able to play off of Manu better with his outside shooting ability being better than Anderson.
We don't know for sure that Simmons will be able to shoot better than Anderson, but Anderson is not known as a shooter either. Neither shot the 3 well in SL and while Simmons shot the 3 well last season in the Dleague, he was at 28% the season before. From Dleague to NBA % drop bc athletes are better closing out shooters, they have more length and are able to recover and contest shots that in the D'league were uncontested. Truth is we don't know how either guy will do shooting and neither does Pop, which is why we have Butler, Jimmer, Williams and even Deshaun Thomas here in the mix.
Kyle's game is also very different from Simmons and is not just on athleticism. They score and create for others in different ways. Kyle is likely to punish mismatches more often and can relieve the pressure on other bench players bc he's unlikely to be guarded by guys that can deal with his size, or he's likely to be able to get a mismatch on a switch. He's also likely to be able to find cutters and guys coming off screens better, and is prone to throw the occasional alley oop. Despite his critics pointing out he is slow, he actually plays at a fast pace, bc he grabs a rebound and can find outlet passes that other guys don't find, or he can score himself. Simmons has a more typical wing style of play, being able to slash hard to the basket and catch on the move, finishing strong. I think he will have gravity bc you have to respect him as a cutter and slasher, and he may still make the occassional 3 pt shot. I don't know about his shooting for certain is all, but he can certainly play off the ball.
We'll see which of the two guys fits best. I think they are both valuable and bring different things and Pop can play them together bc they compliment each other and Patty very well, and neither guy has redundant skills. Both have a future in the Spurs for me. Simmons defense may be the key to his playing time in the end. As far as how they do with Manu, I don't know. There are questions about the big men in the bench as well. I tend to think Kyle's rebounding ability will be needed in the bench as well.
Anderson has been playing SF in the few training vids that we've seen. I think that's the role he's going to have on this team. Summer league had a different roster with different needs, but with the main team, barring a ton of injuries, I think that's how Pop is going to use him.
I would put him behind Tony, Manu, Patty, McCollum and Fredette as an option to run the point and be a playmaker on this team.
I actually don't see Simmons as a "playmaker". I see him more in the strict SG position, possibly playing there if Manu runs the point or alongside Patty when Manu rests.
Simmons ability to hit 3's at a high % is in question but I'm expect him to hit them better than KA.
I don't want the offense to generate from KA trying to punish a supposed mismatch. Diaw can do that one-on-one stuff better than him. Offense needs someone with some speed that can get the defense shifting for help. Also KA won't many options to throw alleys to given the team tbh.
Manu should be guarding the wing with less athleticism at this point so if Simmons has good defense the decision will be easy.
It's only funny because you have no idea what that means.
Simmons essentially is going to be used defensively the same was way CoJo was used early on his career (situational minutes). I would expect Ray & Simmons to get minutes depending on the match-up but Ray would get the start if Tony is out of the line-up (ala Cojo) & Simmons would eat up Manu's minutes if he's resting. KA basically is going to take Belly's minutes but someone like Butler could play situational minutes if the team needs a shooter to space the floor.
Patty/Ray
Manu/Simmons
Kyle/Butler
West/Bonner
Diaw/Boban
I would expect either Danny or Kawhi to play w/ the bench unit since Patty/Manu/Kyle might be defensive liabilities on the perimeter especially without a legit rim protector. Patty will most likely play a lot of minutes w/ the starters esp. if Tony is struggling.
Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 10-02-2015 at 06:40 PM.
No it was funny because 90% of the actual talk in this thread has centered on that issue with some seemingly thinking it's stupid to have the thought that Jimmer spaces the floor and then Jimmer says one of the most respected coaches said that's why he was brought in.
KA playing backup sf seems like the safe bet going in but I don't think it's going to be the outcome. Simmons will prove himself to be the better fit on offense and defense.
Pop can play Kyle small ball 4 or SF depending on the match-up. But like I said either Danny or Kawhi is going to play w/ the second unit so Kyle is most likely not going to play a lot of minutes.
You may very well be right on this. Just to be fair to you, and since I am relatively new, I wanted to tell you that I actually enjoy discussing things like this with others guys, so me engaging you in all of this argument is fun and I hope it is fun for others too. I really like to hear other guys points of view and sometimes I learn a thing or two myself. It will be very exciting for me to watch either guy. Kyle is very newbie TBH, but even last year he did have games where Pop gave him the ball and pushed him to score. Sometimes other guys don't have it, Manu's resting, Diaw is playing with the starters etc. You don't know, during a long season any number of things can happen. Last year yes, as a result of injuries, even a rookie Anderson had occasion to exploit mismatches, so I find it hard to conclude that he wont do it in his second year when he's probably going to be better and more assertive than the rookie version of himself. (By assertive I mean confident, last season, specially to start he was in very deferential mode and unsure what to do and looked lost. He took a lot of long range jump shots early, which was not his thing, and didn't look good at all. He was much better when the team really needed him in December, but then we didn't see much more of him after that. I don't expect the early version of him to show up, since he knows the offense much better now and if he is on the rotation even for 10 minutes for sure he's going to have a specific role, which wasn't the case last season).
Like I said, I am not sure he puts his whole game together this year either, and yet I do hope to continue to see glimpses of his potential. You are right about the alley oops. Those would be to Simmons, Kawhi and Aldridge, and he would need sufficient time playing with the latter 2 (unlikely) to throw those. Obviously him and Simmons play well off each other, having played a few months together in Austin and SL. I tend to think if they played well off each other, its likely going to be similar with Manu, except you had Simmons in a kind of Manu role in SL. If you were to look at it from that perspective you would come to the conclusion that of the two (barring any shooters taking a spot here), the better fit would be Anderson as matter of fact.
Simmons is going to be the rookie here, so he's more of an unknown in terms of how he will do in the NBA and yet I do expect to see him play well and I also think he will have occasion to make plays if Manu's sitting.
I actually tend to agree initially with Kawhitstorm can't believe it lol
Is that you Becky?You may very well be right on this. Just to be fair to you, and since I am relatively new, I wanted to tell you that I actually enjoy discussing things like this with others guys, so me engaging you in all of this argument is fun and I hope it is fun for others too. I really like to hear other guys points of view and sometimes I learn a thing or two myself. It will be very exciting for me to watch either guy. Kyle is very newbie TBH, but even last year he did have games where Pop gave him the ball and pushed him to score. Sometimes other guys don't have it, Manu's resting, Diaw is playing with the starters etc. You don't know, during a long season any number of things can happen. Last year yes, as a result of injuries, even a rookie Anderson had occasion to exploit mismatches, so I find it hard to conclude that he wont do it in his second year when he's probably going to be better and more assertive than the rookie version of himself. (By assertive I mean confident, last season, specially to start he was in very deferential mode and unsure what to do and looked lost. He took a lot of long range jump shots early, which was not his thing, and didn't look good at all. He was much better when the team really needed him in December, but then we didn't see much more of him after that. I don't expect the early version of him to show up, since he knows the offense much better now and if he is on the rotation even for 10 minutes for sure he's going to have a specific role, which wasn't the case last season).
Like I said, I am not sure he puts his whole game together this year either, and yet I do hope to continue to see glimpses of his potential. You are right about the alley oops. Those would be to Simmons, Kawhi and Aldridge, and he would need sufficient time playing with the latter 2 (unlikely) to throw those. Obviously him and Simmons play well off each other, having played a few months together in Austin and SL. I tend to think if they played well off each other, its likely going to be similar with Manu, except you had Simmons in a kind of Manu role in SL. If you were to look at it from that perspective you would come to the conclusion that of the two (barring any shooters taking a spot here), the better fit would be Anderson as matter of fact.
Simmons is going to be the rookie here, so he's more of an unknown in terms of how he will do in the NBA and yet I do expect to see him play well and I also think he will have occasion to make plays if Manu's sitting.
I actually tend to agree initially with Kawhitstorm can't believe it lol
I found this very interesting. I am diverting from the subject of this thread being Jimmer, sorry Spurtacular....
but Pop could actually have Timmy or LMA some with the bench as well. They could start together but then get separated for some minutes and come close together to close out games. Not only meaning that you mix up the wing subs utions patterns a little, but also the big men. Its also going to be something to watch out as the season starts. Pop is probably going to want to keep guys together some so they get a rhythm, chemistry going, but then if things don't work out quite like you plan, that is when he starts with the adjustments and we are likely to see those not just in personnel but in the combo of 5 that Pop has together at times.
I am a girl yes, but not Becky lol
Love basketball though and I am still learning to appreciate it. I only just became a fan a couple of years ago. Its become fascinating to me bc I am at that stage where I learn to appreciate the subtle over the just very casual fan that only appreciates athletic plays. I like strategies a lot.
Pop probably wants LMA/Tim to play together as much as possible for the first half of the season along w/ the rest of the starter & D-West to play w/ the bench unit since they need to be comfortable in that role. As always, Pop is going to start playing mad scientist in the 2nd half of the season trying to figure out combination that might work in the postseason especially if the team has a cushion in the standing. Of course LMA is going to play more minutes than Tim so he'll be out there as the only legit rim protector when Tim is on the bench.
Oh, I didn't know you were really a girl so apologies for the dirty language but that's how we men deal w/ knuckle heads.
I don't pay attention to that. lol I ignore guys who offend me like I would do in real life, and here its easier since I really can press ignore. Wouldn't that be easier in life to just press ignore on some ppl?
But also you get a feel for the environment in the forum. I ignore a lot of guys signatures too. Have to accept boys being boys. We fine.
pendergraph was a terrible player during and after college, no reason to think he would amount to anything. Jimmy was the player of the year. you can't fake that, but you do have to be put in a position to succeed. Jeff couldn't dribble or catch. he made it to college, based on height
The beauty of basketball is that it is much less structured than football yet basic themes resonate. Crappy pickup games vs. well coached games is a start. But when one actually has players as physically talented as NBA players, very subtle techniques are required to get the best out of a unit. The best physical athletes have to be more than they ever were mentally within a theme that does not necessarily fit their particular physical talents. Some just can't adjust. Others are simply so good physically that they must be played, but never quite reach the team's full potential because of their overuse of physical prowess.
I love the subtle balance. That's why there is no team like the Spurs. We have had some of the least physically gifted individuals that work beautifully as a team. 2014 against Miami. Will I ever see more pristine elegance of sport? I don't think so.
So there is only one conclusion:
F the Lakers and their fans for having to endure Kobe.
Pop still inked Jeff for $4 Million guaranteed. That's eight times what he guaranteed Jimmer. I'm sure Pop had an idea of what of role Ayres was going to play, and Jeff just couldn't do it. There are objective data out there that demonstrate that Jimmer has NOT been a floor-spacer in the NBA. So frankly, if Pop is expecting that to change, we already know how it's going to fail. Now, if Pop is expecting him to be Beli lite, then we also know how it would succeed.
The offense doesn't need speed, per se. It needs someone who can drive. Anderson can indeed drive -- in fact, that's probably his best offensive feature. Just like there are more ways for a WR to get open than speed, there are more ways to beat your man to the rim than being fast. Anderson's length and finesse do wonders against perimeter players, and he would certainly force a rotation if he gets into the paint, especially with Kyle having the length to finish over weak rim protection.
Simmons' driving was better in the SL, but it also comes with more red flags. The angles he took relied on him being far more athletic than the guys he was facing, and that's not as likely in the pros. Jonathon's passing for sure looks shaky once you adjust the windows for big-league compe ion. Nothing about what Anderson did is mitigated against better defense. He's not going to go up against 6-10 SFs on the bench. He'll still have his advantages. And playing with a better supporting cast will only help him, as teams won't be keying in on him.
Simmons, Fredette and Butler each has a chance to get that last rotation spot, but it's Kyle's too lose. He just has more upside than the other players, and his rebounding would be a nice bonus given that the second-unit front court is rather small.
With Diaw on the team I don't think the team will need or want Kyle to play any time at the 4 other than trying to get him some experience for the future.
Agree with you fully. I had not thought about it from that perspective, but yes, Simmons got a lot of open dunks and we have to consider that rim protectors in SL and in Austin are almost non existent. Some "centers" in SL came all the way out on PnR coverage, which is why Simmons ran past them. You will not see that kind of egregious mistake in the NBA. We just don't know for sure about Simmons.
You are also right Kyle's game translates more fully except for the foul draw rate. The shots he took are the same he would get in the NBA. I had not thought about that, but you are right. He's tall and long enough to finish with those same floaters of his regardless and his post up game is the same. It might be even easier for him as he will have better teammates. He drew all the best defenders in SL, not saying they are excellent or anything, but he drew the other team's best defenders, most of them guys who are in the league, young draft picks. I chuckle inside to myself bc in scrimmages he's drawing Leonard.
Let's say Tim is resting & Diaw starts, in that case Kyle could play backup 4. There are also times when Diaw looks out of it & disinterested in the regular season thus Kyle would be an option if Pop decides to bench Diaw. Not to mention Pop playing mad scientist & throwing out weird lineups when the team is struggling.
If you look at the Warriors, even though he's a point guard, they essentially play Shaun Livingston multiple positions b/c Iggy plays point forward & handles the ball. Last season they also had D-Lee playing as another point forward thus you can mix & match through out the game. Kyle isn't as good a defender as Livingston but he knows how to use his length & is a high IQ player so he can get by as a backup if Re /Korver can hold their own against starting perimeter players.
Aspects of Simmons game that can translate are his "motor" & finishing ability. If you look at Patrick Beverly the guy basically became a starter by being a high motor guy who can irritate opposing guards other than that he really didn't have any quantifiable skill to be a starter. Simmons isn't as much of a fake tough guy as Beverly to become an irritant but he is actually lankier & more versatile on the defensive end. Besides, Simmons is already a better finisher than Danny & a better shooter than Tony Allen so he can get by as a 3rd string backup guard/wing.Agree with you fully. I had not thought about it from that perspective, but yes, Simmons got a lot of open dunks and we have to consider that rim protectors in SL and in Austin are almost non existent. Some "centers" in SL came all the way out on PnR coverage, which is why Simmons ran past them. You will not see that kind of egregious mistake in the NBA. We just don't know for sure about Simmons.
You are also right Kyle's game translates more fully except for the foul draw rate. The shots he took are the same he would get in the NBA. I had not thought about that, but you are right. He's tall and long enough to finish with those same floaters of his regardless and his post up game is the same. It might be even easier for him as he will have better teammates. He drew all the best defenders in SL, not saying they are excellent or anything, but he drew the other team's best defenders, most of them guys who are in the league, young draft picks. I chuckle inside to myself bc in scrimmages he's drawing Leonard.
Kyle would struggle defensively against starting forwards but he can hold his own against backup. On offense, he already might be the best at drawing fouls on the team b/c he's so crafty.
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