Lakers: D'Bust: I will be RoY and Lakers "most definitely will be a playoff team"

[Raven]

What is the issue here? In short I said ..

1. I "expect" Lakers to be contenders in three years ..not that they will or that I promise they will but that is my hope and expectation for a franchise like ours. Note: I also never thought it would take 12 years for us to ring after 1988 so I could be wrong ...

2. Spurs wont ring post Duncan ...without another sure-fire HOF player to lead them. David was an amazing player ... no doubt HOf'er but yet couldnt ring before Timmy. So are you telling LMA or Kiwi is going to lead a le team sans Timmy? Nicca please. David is much better than either guy and I love Kiwi. what is more likely your team that never won before Tim winning a le with Aldridge as the lead dog or you guys not winning without Duncan?

3. Last I said neither the Lakers or Spurs will ring (post Tim/Kobe) until they find their next transcendant star (plus the Lakers need a coach).

What is shocking or earth shattering about what I said. Please prove a solid argument that I am wrong on any of the above. Like I said, my team sucks ...none of that changes my argument.

it's just baffling to see, that the lakers fans still believe that the nba is a league of superstars...

[Killakobe81]

it's just baffling to see, that the lakers fans still believe that the nba is a league of superstars...

Hmm. Lebron has appeared in 5 straight finals. I think that proves that the best way to be a contender, is to have a superstar. The last 10 les (pre curry) team has had:

1. Tim
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Wade
6. Dirk
7. KG/Pierce

as it's best player. You have the 2004 Pistons and arguably the Warriors as book-ends. Which model do you think is better? Scratch that which model has won more consistently? Building around the transcendant star or the koombya Pistons model ? The problem in the NBA is that people want to throw money at the wrong star players. Dwight, Melo etc. are never gonna lead le teams. But if you get lucky enough to get the right star players especially two (David/Tim, Kobe/Shaq Pau/Kobe, Wade/LeBron) you can win multiple les.

Even though the Spurs offense has changed ..Tim's efficiency on more limited touches cannot be under estimated. Plus he is still a great positional defender and rim protector. Tim still lead you in 2014. Dont let the pace and space fool ya ...

[Raven]

Hmm. Lebron has appeared in 5 straight finals. I think that proves that the best way to be a contender, is to have a superstar. The last 10 les (pre curry) team has had:

1. Tim
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Wade
6. Dirk
7. KG/Pierce

as it's best player. You have the 2004 Pistons and arguably the Warriors as book-ends. Which model do you think is better? The problem in the NBA is that people want to throw money at the wrong star players. Dwight, Melo etc. are never gonna lead le teams. But if you get lucky enough to get the right star players especially two (David/Tim, Kobe/Shaq Pau/Kobe, Wade/LeBron) you can win multiple les.

Even though the Spurs offense has changed ..Tim's efficiency on more limited touches cannot be under estimated. Plus he is still a great positional defender and rim protector. Tim still lead you in 2014. Dont let the pace and space fool ya ...

All of which were great examples of team depth winning against superstar power.

[Killakobe81]

All of which were great examples of team depth winning against superstar power.

Again never said a star can win alone. Even MJ did not win alone. Still doesnt change the facts no Tim = no rings for SA ...

[Raven]

Again never said a star can win alone. Even MJ did not win alone. Still doesnt change the facts no Tim = no rings for SA ...

yeah, that pretty much changes that being a fact. Neither KG nor PP nor RA were top 3 players when they won the le, Dirk wasn't, Kirby never was anyway and when he won he had a top 3 and other great pieces, lebron needed another top 5 player and another top 20 and good pieces around, Shaq needed kirby and Bigshot, timmy need manu and tony and so on.. it's not about being the best player, it's about having as many franchise type players at the same time and having great role players and so on. Kawhi and Aldridge are franchise players and the spurs have many great role players and are the best at adding talent for cheap. So I don't know what you're basing your theory on. Especially since the new cba and tv money help the smaller teams a lot.

[Killakobe81]

yeah, that pretty much changes that being a fact. Neither KG nor PP nor RA were top 3 players when they won the le, Dirk wasn't, Kirby never was anyway and when he won he had a top 3 and other great pieces, lebron needed another top 5 player and another top 20 and good pieces around, Shaq needed kirby and Bigshot, timmy need manu and tony and so on.. it's not about being the best player, it's about having as many franchise type players at the same time and having great role players and so on. Kawhi and Aldridge are franchise players and the spurs have many great role players and are the best at adding talent for cheap. So I don't know what you're basing your theory on. Especially since the new cba and tv money help the smaller teams a lot.

thanks didnt read rest though when you say stupid like that ...

[Raven]

thanks didnt read rest though when you say stupid like that ...

you're right, he was a top 3 when he couldn't get into the play offs

[HemisfairArena]

I called it,,,me,,,and every other Spurs fan on here. Karma has arrived and isn't leaving anytime soon for Laker fan. No big time free agents. No healthy lottery picks. No good head coaches. No chance. Yikes!!!!

[313]

[Kool Bob Love]

^The Sam Bowie of PGs.^

[Kool Bob Love]

I called it,,,me,,,and every other Spurs fan on here. Karma has arrived and isn't leaving anytime soon for Laker fan. No big time free agents. No healthy lottery picks. No good head coaches. No chance. Yikes!!!!

like poetry Hemi.

[Splits]

^The Sam Bowie of PGs.^

I was hoping more for the Len Bias...

[HemisfairArena]

Okafor

[Splits]

D'Bust picking right where he left off in summer league in today's preseason game with a 2-8 shooting night. Also looks like Randle really has a nice mid-range game, posted a solid 2-10 shooting night.

[RsxPiimp]

D'Bust picking right where he left off in summer league in today's preseason game with a 2-8 shooting night. Also looks like Randle really has a nice mid-range game, posted a solid 2-10 shooting night.

Both needs a lot of work but Randle is lookin like a bust. Dude has no offensive game whatsoever. A pure tweener.

[spurraider21]

lakers
kobe 1-5
randle 2-10
clarkson 4-13
russell 2-8
hibbert 1-5

your starting 5, ladies and gentlemen

but what about the scoring punch off the bench, you ask?

lou williams 4-12
brandon bass 2-9
nick young is your player of the game at 4-10

[BD24]

lakers
kobe 1-5
randle 2-10
clarkson 4-13
russell 2-8
hibbert 1-5

your starting 5, ladies and gentlemen

but what about the scoring punch off the bench, you ask?

lou williams 4-12
brandon bass 2-9
nick young is your player of the game at 4-10

But Lakers are winning 50 games and Kobe will be a top 10 player

[ambchang]

I never said a "single star" would win. I said that David did not win until Tim was there to lead them.You can make excuses for him, and some would be valid but that is a fact. Some players Like David, Pau, Aldridge, Pau, Manu,Tony Parker etc. are great hall of fame type players but are not able to lead good teams to a le. With the right leader (tim/Pop/Manu or Fisher/Kobe/Phil) they are able to win.

So you'd think a center who had Avery Johnson as his best PG, along with Vinny Del Negro could win the le? You know what happened to centers when they don't have guards who can shoot? They miss playoffs!

It's not an aberration, it's what happens year after year.
- Kareem missed two playoffs in a row (although that was some weird division thing), in his prime, even when he had Bob Dandrige by his side. Because he Jim Price as his best guard. He couldn't even get Gail Goodrich to the playoffs.
- Hakeem couldn't even get in the playoffs with the roster he eventually won a championship with because they didn't develop an inside out game to cater to his strengths
- Shaq couldn't make the playoffs with Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson playing next to him (albeit in his rookie year) because he didn't have a guard the quality of a Penny, Kobe or Wade

Yet Robinson drags that awful no perimeter Spurs team to the playoffs with 50 wins year after year, only to be exposed in the playoffs and kicked out because people are too stupid to realize how deeply flawed those Spurs teams were. Relying on Lloyd Daniels as the saviour? Cory Alexander was some sort of new hope? Way over the hill Dale Ellis and Chuck Person were the designated shooters when both your PG and SG can't shoot?

BTW, Curry though nowhere close to Tim's level was the MVP and a true star. I do think their win was more about their versatility and pace ... but he absolutely stepped up and drove the le bus. Whether he is as good as David Robinson or not he is still the best player on a le team. David was not.

Yeah, because he had Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut, Iggy, and an extremely well constructed team that has not clear weaknesses on them. Compared to a team with Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Dennis Rodman, Vinny Del Negro with Bob Hill as a coach.

Your reasoning is beyond stupid, it's like saying Chauncey Billups was the best player on the le team. John Stockton was not. What does that mean? Hmmm ... Billups was on a better team?

Spurs in 2014 were still led by Tim btw ... aren't you the one who said that if the Spurs win in 2015 Tim's leadership would be a big reason why? How is that less true in 2014? Didnt you spend days arguing with DMC over that very point? Where is your freaking consistency, Amb? So the Spurs with Tim still playing at all-star level are not among the favorites to win this year, but then they can win without him with Aldridge and Kiwi leading the way? What leadership abilities has anyone on the Spurs roster shown outside of Manu, tim and Pop?

You saw me saying Tim is not the leader of the Spurs? Where is your freaking comprehension skills, Killa? Did I say Pop doesn't have any leadership skills?

As for the Lakers they suck right now we both know it. But I still will not expect anything less than bck to WCF contenders in three years. If we are not then we have failed. I dont give a about all teh drama you posted only results. We have money, will soon have cap-space we are still in L.A> if they are not within 3 years I would expect Scott, jim buss and possibly even Mitch to be gone.

Speaking about consistency ... A team with Kawhi and Aldridge are not contenders, and a team with D'Bust, Randbust and Clark-overrated-son will. Great logic.

[Buddy Mignon]

50 wins and 6th seed.

[spurraider21]

50 wins and 6th seed.

$500

[Splits]

50 wins and 6th seed.

Even the biggest homers on LG have them o/u @ 34 wins

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=175186

[Buddy Mignon]

Even the biggest homers on LG have them o/u @ 34 wins

http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=175186

Im not a homer... I'm an expert at this . If you notice I don't post on any Lakers forum.

[spurraider21]

50 wins and 6th seed.

$500

[Killakobe81]

So you'd think a center who had Avery Johnson as his best PG, along with Vinny Del Negro could win the le? You know what happened to centers when they don't have guards who can shoot? They miss playoffs!

It's not an aberration, it's what happens year after year.
- Kareem missed two playoffs in a row (although that was some weird division thing), in his prime, even when he had Bob Dandrige by his side. Because he Jim Price as his best guard. He couldn't even get Gail Goodrich to the playoffs.
- Hakeem couldn't even get in the playoffs with the roster he eventually won a championship with because they didn't develop an inside out game to cater to his strengths
- Shaq couldn't make the playoffs with Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson playing next to him (albeit in his rookie year) because he didn't have a guard the quality of a Penny, Kobe or Wade

Yet Robinson drags that awful no perimeter Spurs team to the playoffs with 50 wins year after year, only to be exposed in the playoffs and kicked out because people are too stupid to realize how deeply flawed those Spurs teams were. Relying on Lloyd Daniels as the saviour? Cory Alexander was some sort of new hope? Way over the hill Dale Ellis and Chuck Person were the designated shooters when both your PG and SG can't shoot?



Yeah, because he had Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut, Iggy, and an extremely well constructed team that has not clear weaknesses on them. Compared to a team with Sean Elliott, Avery Johnson, Dennis Rodman, Vinny Del Negro with Bob Hill as a coach.

Your reasoning is beyond stupid, it's like saying Chauncey Billups was the best player on the le team. John Stockton was not. What does that mean? Hmmm ... Billups was on a better team?



You saw me saying Tim is not the leader of the Spurs? Where is your freaking comprehension skills, Killa? Did I say Pop doesn't have any leadership skills?



Speaking about consistency ... A team with Kawhi and Aldridge are not contenders, and a team with D'Bust, Randbust and Clark-overrated-son will. Great logic.

all of that and you still missed my point.
Did David lead a le team, yes or no Amb? No.

Never said Billups was better than Stockton but he did lead a le team without anyone as good as Karl Malone on his roster. Does that mean he is better? No. but that is a fact. And who brings up Billups who is not even a HOF when discussing Stockton? It's just like the Robert Horry argument and is just silly. Isiah is the better comparison and he did lead a team to a le, as did Curry.

Those Spur teams were not great. But you do see the same argument/excuses you just made for David are the same ones you can make for Kobe before he lead a team to a le, right? He had ty guard play and inconsistent "stars" like Odom for support but when you are in "bash Kobe mode" all of a sudden Odom is part of a historic Celtics 80's big 3 front-line that desrves the lion's share of the credit for the '09/10 les ...and was plenty of help for a team that featured Luke Walton, Chris Mihm, chucky Atkins and Smush Parker playing key roles.

THAT is the inconsistency I speak of.

But it's OK, I see through all your bull- but you can carry on for those that don't. But if you wish to ever continue to discuss hoops on non Kobe related topics you will refrain from calling my logic "stupid". It's childish and just because you disagree with someone or something no need to name call. I once called your logic and reasoning "feminine" but have decided that I am above that and you deserve more respect ...

... Even if this post reeks, with a mixture of Massengill and Bath & Body works ....

Kidding.

[ambchang]

all of that and you still missed my point.
Did David lead a le team, yes or no Amb? No.

What does that mean though? That's my point.

Never said Billups was better than Stockton but he did lead a le team without anyone as good as Karl Malone on his roster. Does that mean he is better? No. but that is a fact. And who brings up Billups who is not even a HOF when discussing Stockton? It's just like the Robert Horry argument and is just silly. Isiah is the better comparison and he did lead a team to a le, as did Curry.

So again, what does it mean?

Those Spur teams were not great. But you do see the same argument/excuses you just made for David are the same ones you can make for Kobe before he lead a team to a le, right? He had ty guard play and inconsistent "stars" like Odom for support but when you are in "bash Kobe mode" all of a sudden Odom is part of a historic Celtics 80's big 3 front-line that desrves the lion's share of the credit for the '09/10 les ...and was plenty of help for a team that featured Luke Walton, Chris Mihm, chucky Atkins and Smush Parker playing key roles.

Robinson didn't miss the playoffs, he over-achieved and took his team to 50 wins year after year, only to be exposed in the playoffs. Kobe on the other hand, missed the playoffs, at the absolute peak of his prime.

I wasn't saying Robinson needed an all-world back court, I said he needed a competent one. Kobe needed an all-world front court EVERY, SINGLE, TIME, he won a championship, oh, and he never led his team in WS in any of the championship years, nor did he lead his team in too many advanced stats during those championship years. It's not an aberration, it all five times.

THAT is the inconsistency I speak of.

Pretty consistent to me.

But it's OK, I see through all your bull- but you can carry on for those that don't. But if you wish to ever continue to discuss hoops on non Kobe related topics you will refrain from calling my logic "stupid". It's childish and just because you disagree with someone or something no need to name call. I once called your logic and reasoning "feminine" but have decided that I am above that and you deserve more respect ...

... Even if this post reeks, with a mixture of Massengill and Bath & Body works ....

Kidding.

If you didn't realize those Spurs teams were flawed as , then you deserved to be called stupid, because that is the correct term. I didn't realized it was you when I typed that out though.