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Homer analysis, dude.
The historical consensus is Magic was better than Bird. He came out on top against him college and in the NBA. They both played with multiple hall of fame players and Magic won more.
Last edited by namlook; 10-05-2015 at 02:09 AM.
Homer analysis, dude.
Yeah...and putting Tim Duncan above Lebron James isnt? Lebron just won two nba finals games by himself. Easily the greatest all-around player of all time.
Tim Duncan?
WHO?!
When Lebron James retires, there where will be endless retrospectives on his career and analysis on his impact on the league and the game as a whole.
When Tim Duncan retires, no one will give a .
Best quote of that site:
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 38,387Bryant is currently second all time in scoring, chasing only Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
Karl Malone: 36,928
Kobe Bryant: 32,482
@ "expert" analysts
Tim Duncan has been the better player over his career, yes. If LeBron played in the west he would be just another Durant. Just another Dirk (pre le). He would have VERY rarely even sniffed the Finals. That's why his Finals track record is so ty and Duncan's is so good. You're practically guaranteed to win if you make the Finals out of the west because you merely have to beat a team that's equal to a west 3-4 seed out of the east. Meanwhile the east team has to -always- play their toughest opponent when they get there.
Despite that, Duncan keeps getting there and keeps winning. LeBron is a great player, but Duncan is also a great player who happens to also win more in a tougher conference, and didn't need to form a superteam to win his les. Duncan is the in man and PPG is overrated.
Duncan won a le by himself, and dismantled the Suns.
You can ride the Lebron bandwagon all you like, but Duncan has a case over Lebron, career wise.
For those who didn't want to go through that horribly difficult to navigate page:
50: Pete Maravich
49: Dave Cowens
48: Wes Unseld
47: Dolph Schayes
46: Paul Pierce
45: Kevin Durant
44: Nique
43: CP3
42: Bill Walton
41: Gary Payton
40: Elvin Hayes
39: Drexler
38: AI
37: Nash
36: Reed
35: Mikan
34: Ewing
33: McHale
32: Kidd
31: Gervin
30: Frazier
29: Wade
28: Rick Barry
27: Bob Cousy
26: Pippen
25: Stockton
24: David Robinson
23: Dirk
22: Havlicek
21: Isiah Thomas
20: Pet
19: Garnett
18: Barkley
17: Pedo
16: Moses Malone
15: Elgin Baylor
14: Dr. J
13: West
12: Hakeem
11: Oscar Robertson
10: Shaq
9: Kobe
8: Duncan
7: Lebron
6: Bird
5: Wilt
4: Russell
3: Magic
2: Kareem (likely)
1: Jordan (likely)
FIFY. Gotta make those "gimmies".
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I'd say it used to be "MJ, Magic and Bird and then everyone else".
Now Id say its "MJ and Lebron and everyone else".
Mentioning Tim Duncan in the same breath as Lebron is ridiculous. And no one outside of insecure Spurs fans would disagree.
FIFY. Gotta make those "gimmies".
Lebron got a 2-4 finals record because he never blew any series. 2011 was an embarrassment
Also, stay on the bench.
And yet even the Hoops Critic site you quoted ranked Lebron one above Duncan, which is most definitely the same breath.
And "Timmy" lost to an eighth seed.
Also, stay on the bench.
And could never repeat (0-5).
Not impressed.
Thats a fair point but I think they've got Lebron ranked way too low. Several players are obviously getting a nostalgia vote.
Never in our lifetime will another player average 36, 13, and 9 assists in the finals. Lebron's combination of absurd athleticism, size and high basketball IQ will never be duplicated. He's not the SCORER that MJ, Kobe or Durant were/is but he's easily the best overall player to ever play the game.
Tim Duncan? Please.
I agree with some of this, but he does have to win a few more le to cement that. But of course Spur fans play the "ring card" whenever it suits their ass. but when it doesnt work in their favor it's a team accomplishment ...
50: Pete Maravich - Too high, he was a great entertainer, and I don't like to rag on the dead, but he was basically a talented Jason Williams in the 70s. Low efficiency ball hog type who put up incredible highlights. And I actually loved watching him. I personally would put Worthy, Moncrief, Blackman, Bobby Jones, Billy Cunningham, Yao and a whole bunch of other guys above him.
49: Dave Cowens - Underrated, he's probably not good enough to lead his team to a le, let alone two, outside of the ABA days. He's like the ultimate hustle star. Too bad he lost his fire.
48: Wes Unseld - The ultimate role player, his defense, rebound and outlet passes were incredible. Ranked about right though.
47: Dolph Schayes - Can't take him too seriously, I guess. Ranked a little too high if you just like to rank players by ability, ranked too low if you like to rank his dominance relative to his era.
46: Paul Pierce - Ranked too low, one of the best two way wing players on this list. Underrated as well.
45: Kevin Durant - Ranked way too high. He will probably rank higher as he gets more mileage under his belt, but it's too early now.
44: Nique - I loved Nique, but he's really a mixed bag. Very entertaining, carried that Hawks team for years, but he carried them to no where, and never made it out the 2nd round. He's like the T-Mac of his day.
43: CP3 - His stats were great, especially in the regular season, but he gets shuts down comparatively easily if the opposition focuses on it. Too short, and his range and athleticism aren't really all-time great.
42: Bill Walton - He could have been GOAT if not for nagging injuries. Too bad, he had them. Incredible defender and passer, especially for a center. He's the closest thing to prime Arvynis Sabonis as anybody.
41: Gary Payton - Ranked a little low, great defense, but his real prime wasn't all that long.
40: Elvin Hayes - Overrated, scorer and little else. Sieve on defense
39: Drexler - Underrated, not sure how he could be ranked below AI
38: AI - New age Nate Archibald.
37: Nash - Overrated, yeah, he's got two MVPs, but at least one of those were undeserved.
36: Reed - Great passer, total alpha, another one of those role player superstar guys. He's sort of lucky he's got an incredible backcourt.
35: Mikan - The original superstar
34: Ewing - Never fulfilled the hype out of Georgetown. He was good, just not as good as people expected. The problem is that he took too much time and space on offense.
33: McHale - One of the best low post players of all time. Alpha talent, beta personality.
32: Kidd - I don't know about him ranking this high. Great defender, great floor leader, but still couldn't really shoot until really late in his career.
31: Gervin - Pretty much the opposite of Kidd. Can shoot shoot and shoot, not much else, at least not on a elite level.
30: Frazier - Underrated a lot, he can score, he directs the offense, and he was one of the best defensive players of all time. Very much like a Payton.
29: Wade - Too injured to be ranked this high.
28: Rick Barry - Usually forgotten and underrated, but ranked about right here. Few could really carry a team offensively like he did during his prime.
27: Bob Cousy - Yeah, I could see his impact.
26: Pippen - He never would be this good with MJ, but the Bulls would never be that good without him either.
25: Stockton - Underrated, he was really the Jazz offense, not Malone
24: David Robinson - Underrated, would have been viewed a lot better if he had a PG who made more than 1 3 pter in his playoff career.
23: Dirk - Underrated a little, he really was unstoppable on offense. But does require a specific team around him to really be successful.
22: Havlicek - Pretty overrated, he hustles like crazy and runs non-stop, but overall an inefficient player
21: Isiah Thomas - Overrated. Dumars, Laimbeer and Daly really not getting the credit they deserved.
20: Pet - Was really great in his day.
19: Garnett - About right, but Garnett really is the ultimate 2nd fiddle.
18: Barkley - About right, his defense sucked though, and he is most definitely a ball stopper
17: Pedo - way overrated. he scored a lot of points, thanks to Stockton. A number of guys below him would have done the same in the same situation (Barkley, Garnett, Robinson, Dirk, McHale, Ewing)
16: Moses Malone - Way underrated. 3 MVPs, bullied the GOAT to submission, and just plain dominated.
15: Elgin Baylor - Forgotten because he never won a ring, and is most definitely an old timer, but he was way ahead of his time.
14: Dr. J - Underrated, his best days were his ABA days, and he changed the game.
13: West - Underrated to about right. His name rarely shows up as the best 2 guard of all time, but he's the #2 best, no question
12: Hakeem - Underrated. He is firmly in the top 10, no reason he is ranked outside of it.
11: Oscar Robertson - About right. Monster stats, but a few players were putting up monster stats.
10: Shaq - About right, would have been higher if he dedicated himself.
9: Kobe - Overrated, he has no case over Shaq, none.
8: Duncan - Underrated to about right, should be in the 4 to 7 range.
7: Lebron - Overrated, 2011 will forever be a huge blackmark on his resume than none of the other top 10 has, only won with some of the most loaded teams in the league, and had a hand in creating bad teams he played on.
6: Bird - A little overrated. His prime is as good as any, just that it wasn't that long.
5: Wilt - About right. Just dominant.
4: Russell - About right to slightly overrated. He changed the game with his defense, his outlet passes were amazing, and he was crucial to the fastbreak. Very cerebral as well.
3: Magic - A little high, I guess. I can never figure out how the Lakers can have 2 of the top 3 players on the same team, and only went 2-1 vs. Bird #6 and McHale #33. Maybe the ranking is a little off?
2: Kareem (likely) - As I have said many times before, Kareem is tough to rank. He accomplished nothing without some of the GOAT PG (the two best according to his ranking, btw), he missed the playoffs, he was a horrible defender and rebounder by the end of his career, his prime came in the 70s when the league really royally sucked (not his fault), he was dominated by Moses in his prime, he played a way over the hill Wilt to a standstill while he was a young buck, but it's really hard to argue against his MVPs, rings, all-nbas, scoring, rebounding figures etc ....
1: Jordan (likely) - People like to put him as the no-brainer #1, I tend to disagree. Kareem, Magic, Bird, and Wilt all have a case.
HOLY . Did they forget Karl Malone?!!
They did! They forgot Karl Malone.
This list is .
His numbers really tells us how horrible the Cavs team was and how the GSW game planned against the Cavs. 36/13/9 was great, but he was extremely high usage. shaq had 38/17/2/3 and another with 33/16/5/3 and the third one with 36/12/4/3 in b2b2b years. Lebron did it once, along with his 18/7/7 series vs. the Mavs.
Duncan averaged 24/17/5/5 in the finals with a much slower pace, then 21/14/2/2 against he best defensive frontline in the league history in an even slower paced game.
Again, issue with Lebron isn't that he was 2-4, it was how he lost those 4.
I can't blame him in 2007, he had no chance. 2013 the Heat had a chance, the Spurs were just on fire, so I can't blame him, 2014 the Cavs were overmatched, and I really believe that if the Cavs had another shooter (like Ray Allen), they would have won. But it was 2011 that really gets me every time. Also, the two that he won, the Heat were loaded, absolutely loaded.
You then look at the Spurs championships. Nobody expected them to win in 99. 03 was supposed to be a rebuilding year, 05 was between them and the Pistons, 07 was supposed to be the Suns or the Mavs, and 14 was supposed to at least be a compe ive series vs. the Heat, and they weren't really that much of a favourite going into the playoffs. Duncan did more than expected with the roster, Lebron barely broke even, or did less.
Pedo
All-Time lists are pretty lame and antiquated..ranking ty players from the 60s and 70s is ridiculous, as is placing players with "better careers" ahead of other players with superior peaks IMO..
A few guys I would consider putting on the top 50 but weren't on the list:
Worthy
Reggie Miller
Moncrief
Dantley
MVPau
Bob Lanier
Chet Walker
TMac
Carter
Alex English
Bernard King
Chris Mullin
Ray Allen
Webber
As opposed to chugging Lebron juice
All-Time lists are pretty lame and antiquated..ranking ty players from the 60s and 70s is ridiculous, as is placing players with "better careers" ahead of other players with superior peaks IMO..
When he was clearly over his prime? Sure.
hey look, that player never missed the playoffs, won 2 MVPs, 3 FMVPs, a boatload of all nbas and all-d teams, won 5 les, but lost to an eight seed in his 14th season, so he clearly is not GOAT material, especially compared to a guy who got embarrassed in the finals and had a 2
He couldn't repeat, so?
Ah yes...the proverbial "it was a slower pace" excuse.
Funny that Shaq played in the exact same era and didnt need ANY of the excuses Spurs fans give Duncan.
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