NBA: Hoops Critic Top 50 of all-time

[da_suns_fan]

When he was clearly over his prime? Sure.

How old was he? 34?

You and your excuses.

[ambchang]

Ah yes...the proverbial "it was a slower pace" excuse.

Funny that Shaq played in the exact same era and didnt need ANY of the excuses Spurs fans give Duncan.

Do you under and the different between pace and era?

[ambchang]

How old was he? 34?

You and your excuses.

And? Lebron was getting his pushed in by the mags a lot younger than 34.

[da_suns_fan]

Do you under and the different between pace and era?

Do you understand that players (like Shaq) were in the same era and didnt have any problems putting up huge numbers?

Shaq actually had a game in which he scored 61 and pulled down 23 rebounds.

Year: 2000.

So why didnt Shaq need the excuses you give Duncan?

[Robz4000]

Damn, da_suns_fan sounds salty as in all his posts. Also, your reading comprehension is pretty ; pedo is clearly listed at #17.

[Killakobe81]

50: Pete Maravich - Too high, he was a great entertainer, and I don't like to rag on the dead, but he was basically a talented Jason Williams in the 70s. Low efficiency ball hog type who put up incredible highlights. And I actually loved watching him. I personally would put Worthy, Moncrief, Blackman, Bobby Jones, Billy Cunningham, Yao and a whole bunch of other guys above him.
49: Dave Cowens - Underrated, he's probably not good enough to lead his team to a le, let alone two, outside of the ABA days. He's like the ultimate hustle star. Too bad he lost his fire.
48: Wes Unseld - The ultimate role player, his defense, rebound and outlet passes were incredible. Ranked about right though.
47: Dolph Schayes - Can't take him too seriously, I guess. Ranked a little too high if you just like to rank players by ability, ranked too low if you like to rank his dominance relative to his era.
46: Paul Pierce - Ranked too low, one of the best two way wing players on this list. Underrated as well.
45: Kevin Durant - Ranked way too high. He will probably rank higher as he gets more mileage under his belt, but it's too early now.
44: Nique - I loved Nique, but he's really a mixed bag. Very entertaining, carried that Hawks team for years, but he carried them to no where, and never made it out the 2nd round. He's like the T-Mac of his day.
43: CP3 - His stats were great, especially in the regular season, but he gets shuts down comparatively easily if the opposition focuses on it. Too short, and his range and athleticism aren't really all-time great.
42: Bill Walton - He could have been GOAT if not for nagging injuries. Too bad, he had them. Incredible defender and passer, especially for a center. He's the closest thing to prime Arvynis Sabonis as anybody.
41: Gary Payton - Ranked a little low, great defense, but his real prime wasn't all that long.
40: Elvin Hayes - Overrated, scorer and little else. Sieve on defense
39: Drexler - Underrated, not sure how he could be ranked below AI
38: AI - New age Nate Archibald.
37: Nash - Overrated, yeah, he's got two MVPs, but at least one of those were undeserved.
36: Reed - Great passer, total alpha, another one of those role player superstar guys. He's sort of lucky he's got an incredible backcourt.
35: Mikan - The original superstar
34: Ewing - Never fulfilled the hype out of Georgetown. He was good, just not as good as people expected. The problem is that he took too much time and space on offense.
33: McHale - One of the best low post players of all time. Alpha talent, beta personality.
32: Kidd - I don't know about him ranking this high. Great defender, great floor leader, but still couldn't really shoot until really late in his career.
31: Gervin - Pretty much the opposite of Kidd. Can shoot shoot and shoot, not much else, at least not on a elite level.
30: Frazier - Underrated a lot, he can score, he directs the offense, and he was one of the best defensive players of all time. Very much like a Payton.
29: Wade - Too injured to be ranked this high.
28: Rick Barry - Usually forgotten and underrated, but ranked about right here. Few could really carry a team offensively like he did during his prime.
27: Bob Cousy - Yeah, I could see his impact.
26: Pippen - He never would be this good with MJ, but the Bulls would never be that good without him either.
25: Stockton - Underrated, he was really the Jazz offense, not Malone
24: David Robinson - Underrated, would have been viewed a lot better if he had a PG who made more than 1 3 pter in his playoff career.
23: Dirk - Underrated a little, he really was unstoppable on offense. But does require a specific team around him to really be successful.
22: Havlicek - Pretty overrated, he hustles like crazy and runs non-stop, but overall an inefficient player
21: Isiah Thomas - Overrated. Dumars, Laimbeer and Daly really not getting the credit they deserved.
20: Pet - Was really great in his day.
19: Garnett - About right, but Garnett really is the ultimate 2nd fiddle.
18: Barkley - About right, his defense sucked though, and he is most definitely a ball stopper
17: Pedo - way overrated. he scored a lot of points, thanks to Stockton. A number of guys below him would have done the same in the same situation (Barkley, Garnett, Robinson, Dirk, McHale, Ewing)
16: Moses Malone - Way underrated. 3 MVPs, bullied the GOAT to submission, and just plain dominated.
15: Elgin Baylor - Forgotten because he never won a ring, and is most definitely an old timer, but he was way ahead of his time.
14: Dr. J - Underrated, his best days were his ABA days, and he changed the game.
13: West - Underrated to about right. His name rarely shows up as the best 2 guard of all time, but he's the #2 best, no question
12: Hakeem - Underrated. He is firmly in the top 10, no reason he is ranked outside of it.
11: Oscar Robertson - About right. Monster stats, but a few players were putting up monster stats.
10: Shaq - About right, would have been higher if he dedicated himself.
9: Kobe - Overrated, he has no case over Shaq, none.
8: Duncan - Underrated to about right, should be in the 4 to 7 range.
7: Lebron - Overrated, 2011 will forever be a huge blackmark on his resume than none of the other top 10 has, only won with some of the most loaded teams in the league, and had a hand in creating bad teams he played on.
6: Bird - A little overrated. His prime is as good as any, just that it wasn't that long.
5: Wilt - About right. Just dominant.
4: Russell - About right to slightly overrated. He changed the game with his defense, his outlet passes were amazing, and he was crucial to the fastbreak. Very cerebral as well.
3: Magic - A little high, I guess. I can never figure out how the Lakers can have 2 of the top 3 players on the same team, and only went 2-1 vs. Bird #6 and McHale #33. Maybe the ranking is a little off?
2: Kareem (likely) - As I have said many times before, Kareem is tough to rank. He accomplished nothing without some of the GOAT PG (the two best according to his ranking, btw), he missed the playoffs, he was a horrible defender and rebounder by the end of his career, his prime came in the 70s when the league really royally sucked (not his fault), he was dominated by Moses in his prime, he played a way over the hill Wilt to a standstill while he was a young buck, but it's really hard to argue against his MVPs, rings, all-nbas, scoring, rebounding figures etc ....
1: Jordan (likely) - People like to put him as the no-brainer #1, I tend to disagree. Kareem, Magic, Bird, and Wilt all have a case.

1983 was not Kareems "prime" stop with that bull .

[Killakobe81]

His numbers really tells us how horrible the Cavs team was and how the GSW game planned against the Cavs. 36/13/9 was great, but he was extremely high usage. shaq had 38/17/2/3 and another with 33/16/5/3 and the third one with 36/12/4/3 in b2b2b years. Lebron did it once, along with his 18/7/7 series vs. the Mavs.

Duncan averaged 24/17/5/5 in the finals with a much slower pace, then 21/14/2/2 against he best defensive frontline in the league history in an even slower paced game.



Again, issue with Lebron isn't that he was 2-4, it was how he lost those 4.

I can't blame him in 2007, he had no chance. 2013 the Heat had a chance, the Spurs were just on fire, so I can't blame him, 2014 the Cavs were overmatched, and I really believe that if the Cavs had another shooter (like Ray Allen), they would have won. But it was 2011 that really gets me every time. Also, the two that he won, the Heat were loaded, absolutely loaded.

You then look at the Spurs championships. Nobody expected them to win in 99. 03 was supposed to be a rebuilding year, 05 was between them and the Pistons, 07 was supposed to be the Suns or the Mavs, and 14 was supposed to at least be a compe ive series vs. the Heat, and they weren't really that much of a favourite going into the playoffs. Duncan did more than expected with the roster, Lebron barely broke even, or did less.

Wont even bother ...when Duncan wins he overcame the odds ...when LeBron wins his team was loaded ...

[TheGreatYacht]

Suns fan hating on Duncan?

So you're saying after getting cucked so many times by the Spurs franchise, their fans have had enough?

Good luck with det Tyson/Keif' core Oh wait... He wants out
Sending 3/4ths of your main roster to the SL, and getting handled by Fathead...

[da_suns_fan]

Suns fan hating on Duncan?

So you're saying after getting cucked so many times by the Spurs franchise, their fans have had enough?

Good luck with det Tyson/Keif' core Oh wait... He wants out
Sending 3/4ths of your main roster to the SL, and getting handled by Fathead...

Now THATS salty.

Truth hurts, huh?

[ambchang]

Do you understand that players (like Shaq) were in the same era and didnt have any problems putting up huge numbers?

Shaq actually had a game in which he scored 61 and pulled down 23 rebounds.

Year: 2000.

So why didnt Shaq need the excuses you give Duncan?

So you don't understand the difference era and pace. Got it.

[ambchang]

1983 was not Kareems "prime" stop with that bull .

What was he doing in his prime .... Wait, he missed two playoffs. You want to go there?

[ambchang]

Wont even bother ...when Duncan wins he overcame the odds ...when LeBron wins his team was loaded ...

Which of the Spurs teams were favourites going in the season or the playoffs. 2005 was the only one and it was pretty much split with the Pistons.

[LittleCriminal]

[LittleCriminal]

[Killakobe81]

What was he doing in his prime .... Wait, he missed two playoffs. You want to go there?

I dont give two s where you go. i dont take this serious or personal ...i make my points and Im done. But if you want to go there feel free ...i know i was teasing aboot feminine posts but only my mom and his wife use that you wanna go there line ...

[scanry]

Which of the Spurs teams were favourites going in the season or the playoffs. 2005 was the only one and it was pretty much split with the Pistons.

Tbh, the Spurs were the favorites in 2000, 2005, 2006 and 2015. The Spurs may not have had superstars besides Tim, but they were still loaded the past 2 decades.

[TDMVPDPOY]

this graph will be bs had enrique won the rs mvp 2 years ago...him being above hakeem on that graph

[Killakobe81]

Tbh, the Spurs were the favorites in 2000, 2005, 2006 and 2015. The Spurs may not have had superstars besides Tim, but they were still loaded the past 2 decades.

At least cofavorites or short list of contenders ....but Amb is playing stupid (his word).
Amb, So missing the playoffs subtracts points for Kareem ....but not winning a le doesnt hurt Stockton's case or Robinson's but hurts Karl Malone?

As far as favorites going in to the playoffs what was the Spurs offensive and defensive ratings in the le years? What about scoring differential pretty sure based by numbers not media pundits Spurs were favorites one of those years ...

[ambchang]

I dont give two s where you go. i dont take this serious or personal ...i make my points and Im done. But if you want to go there feel free ...i know i was teasing aboot feminine posts but only my mom and his wife use that you wanna go there line ...

You seem to have a circle surrounded by females. Have fun with your girlfriends but remember to hang out with guys and have a beer once in a while or next thing you know you'd be all metrosexual shopping for Burberry handbags and shoes.

You seem to be taking things pretty seriously now. Seemed I struck a nerve.

[ambchang]

Tbh, the Spurs were the favorites in 2000, 2005, 2006 and 2015. The Spurs may not have had superstars besides Tim, but they were still loaded the past 2 decades.

Didn't win those years. They were only favourites becaus they won the previous year.

They weren't really favourites in 2000. Nba changed the rules to make sure the Spurs can't win that year. Duncan getting hurt didn't help.

[ambchang]

At least cofavorites or short list of contenders ....but Amb is playing stupid (his word).
Amb, So missing the playoffs subtracts points for Kareem ....but not winning a le doesnt hurt Stockton's case or Robinson's but hurts Karl Malone?

As far as favorites going in to the playoffs what was the Spurs offensive and defensive ratings in the le years? What about scoring differential pretty sure based by numbers not media pundits Spurs were favorites one of those years ...

You know the difference between winning the le vs making the playoffs, right?

Robinson got a pass because his team sucked just like most of Barkleys prime. Stockton gets a pass because he had great chances but his running mate was a certified choker ( I don't use that term often and pedo is really the only one) and he had to worry about his preteen daughters so that mental strain will likely prevent him from his best performance. As dirty as Stockton was I have a little sympathy towards him.

Pedo shouldn't have won any les becaus he's overrated to begin with. He just isn't good niugh to lead the Jazz to les.

[ambchang]

how come kareems championships holds so much weight when he was a coatrider?

He wasn't playing for les then, he was in it for the money because of all the bad investments he made and his house burned to the ground. Not to mention having his financial manager take a $9m loan in his name without his authorization. That is when he made $20m or so his entire career.

Then you have laker fans coming in yapping their mouths about Duncan losing a few million when he made over $230m plus endorsements in his career. It's not like Duncan had to fly economy and take the budget bus like Kareem does. Which really also speaks to how well the lakers take care of their legends, Kareem is flat broke and the lakers did jack squat.

[Killakobe81]

You know the difference between winning the le vs making the playoffs, right?

Robinson got a pass because his team sucked just like most of Barkleys prime. Stockton gets a pass because he had great chances but his running mate was a certified choker ( I don't use that term often and pedo is really the only one) and he had to worry about his preteen daughters so that mental strain will likely prevent him from his best performance. As dirty as Stockton was I have a little sympathy towards him.

Pedo shouldn't have won any les becaus he's overrated to begin with. He just isn't good niugh to lead the Jazz to les.

Didnt answer my other question ...but whatever i can already predict the backpedaling and excuse making so dont bother

[ambchang]

Didnt answer my other question ...but whatever i can already predict the backpedaling and excuse making so dont bother

You can look that up. I am not doing all that work for you if you want to prove something.

[da_suns_fan]

You know the difference between winning the le vs making the playoffs, right?

Robinson got a pass because his team sucked just like most of Barkleys prime. Stockton gets a pass because he had great chances but his running mate was a certified choker ( I don't use that term often and pedo is really the only one) and he had to worry about his preteen daughters so that mental strain will likely prevent him from his best performance. As dirty as Stockton was I have a little sympathy towards him.

Pedo shouldn't have won any les becaus he's overrated to begin with. He just isn't good niugh to lead the Jazz to les.

You do know the difference between team sports and individual sports, right?