Lakers: D'Bust: I will be RoY and Lakers "most definitely will be a playoff team"

[Killakobe81]

What does that mean though? That's my point.



So again, what does it mean?



Robinson didn't miss the playoffs, he over-achieved and took his team to 50 wins year after year, only to be exposed in the playoffs. Kobe on the other hand, missed the playoffs, at the absolute peak of his prime.

I wasn't saying Robinson needed an all-world back court, I said he needed a competent one. Kobe needed an all-world front court EVERY, SINGLE, TIME, he won a championship, oh, and he never led his team in WS in any of the championship years, nor did he lead his team in too many advanced stats during those championship years. It's not an aberration, it all five times.

Pretty consistent to me.



If you didn't realize those Spurs teams were flawed as , then you deserved to be called stupid, because that is the correct term. I didn't realized it was you when I typed that out though.

What does it mean? it means what i wrote he didnt lead his team to a le. I dont post in riddle form and you never answered the question ...

We dont discuss Kobe anymore so ill ignore all of those points ...we have been down that road plenty of times ... but good to know people that diagree with your un impeachable argumnents are stupid. Using that term is great for healthy debates ...noted

[RsxPiimp]

DLo down. Damn splits

[Killakobe81]

DLo down. Damn splits

Relax. Just a bruise. Glad to see Randle and Kobe play better and injury to Russell is minor. Its just preseason though

[Raven]

This is great news for Russell and the Lakers, and we fully expect to see him again in the second half. He simply has a bruised butt, so it looks like a serious injury has been avoided after he mistakenly tried to stop Rudy Gobert from driving to the hole.

[ceds]

From 1999 to 2015

Kobe , Shaq, TD and Lebron account for 12 les

Even in the off years where the celtics, pistons, mavs and warriors won they were facing one of the 4 above players in the finals.

Transcendent superstar is clearly the best way to a ring

[Splits]

From 1999 to 2015

MVPau, Shaq, TD and Lebron account for 12 les

Even in the off years where the celtics, pistons, mavs and warriors won they were facing one of the 4 above players in the finals.

Transcendent superstar is clearly the best way to a ring

fixed

[Killakobe81]

From 1999 to 2015

Kobe , Shaq, TD and Lebron account for 12 les

Even in the off years where the celtics, pistons, mavs and warriors won they were facing one of the 4 above players in the finals.

Transcendent superstar is clearly the best way to a ring

This. Look how many things need to break right to win the other way and it's not as sustainable. HOF coach plus transcendant star is the best way to win les. They need help of course no one wins alone. But if I was building a team I would rather take Davis and let's say Brad Stevens and build around them versus trying to find the magic dust of say the 2004 Pistons ...

[Raven]

From 1999 to 2015

Kobe , Shaq, TD and Lebron account for 12 les

Even in the off years where the celtics, pistons, mavs and warriors won they were facing one of the 4 above players in the finals.

Transcendent superstar is clearly the best way to a ring

that's one great way to spin the truth.

[ambchang]

From 1999 to 2015

Kobe , Shaq, TD and Lebron account for 12 les

Even in the off years where the celtics, pistons, mavs and warriors won they were facing one of the 4 above players in the finals.

Transcendent superstar is clearly the best way to a ring

This. Look how many things need to break right to win the other way and it's not as sustainable. HOF coach plus transcendant star is the best way to win les. They need help of course no one wins alone. But if I was building a team I would rather take Davis and let's say Brad Stevens and build around them versus trying to find the magic dust of say the 2004 Pistons ...

Well duh. Of course having a transcendent star helps, a lot, and make things so much easier, but then, are those transcendent stars BECAUSE they had great coaches and a good team around them that allowed them to win les, or is it the other way around?

If Kobe stayed in Charlotte, he would have won zero les, would he be considered transcendent or another Vince Carter?

If Shaq stayed in Orlando and never had a Kobe to the three-peat, would he be considered transcendent or a Patrick Ewing?

If Duncan was drafted by the Nuggets or Celtics and never won a ring, would he be considered transcendent or just another David Robinson?

If Lebron never left Cleveland and had zero rings, would he be considered transcendent or Pippen v2.0?

If Kareem never had the two GOAT PGs by him, would he be viewed as a disappointment?

If Hakeem never had Rudy T as his coach and installed that inside out offense to perfection, would he be viewed as the same as Robinson and Ewing?

Would Kemp be known for a lot more than his prolific breeding prowess if he won a le in 96?

Would Magic be viewed the same way as Sidney Moncrief if he went to Phoenix. Would he be labelled a coach killer and diva if the Lakers traded him instead of firing the coach in 82.

Besides, a number of teams won without an amazing superstar. People like to make Isiah Thomas out to be this enormously dominant player, he wasn't. He was good, but I can't really say that he is head and shoulders above Stockton, or even Payton or Kidd, and yet he is considered one of the top 15 players of all time because he had Daly as his coach, and had Dumars, Laimbeer, a checked-in Rodman, Aguirre, Salley, Microwave for a well constructed team that won him a le.

Billups is most definitely not an incredible superstar, Wade was great, but transcendent he was not.

Dirk's stock went up multiple notches after he won the le in 2011, he wasn't even in his absolute prime then, but he had the perfect team around him. He didn't become a better player in 2011, he just was viewed as one.

Pierce wasn't viewed seriously until Garnett and Allen joined him, and now he is widely viewed as one of the best win player in the 00s along with Kobe, and separated from the TMacs and Carters and Iversons.

[Reck]

Kool is batting a 1000.

[Killakobe81]

Well duh. Of course having a transcendent star helps, a lot, and make things so much easier, but then, are those transcendent stars BECAUSE they had great coaches and a good team around them that allowed them to win les, or is it the other way around?

If Kobe stayed in Charlotte, he would have won zero les, would he be considered transcendent or another Vince Carter?

If Shaq stayed in Orlando and never had a Kobe to the three-peat, would he be considered transcendent or a Patrick Ewing?

If Duncan was drafted by the Nuggets or Celtics and never won a ring, would he be considered transcendent or just another David Robinson?

If Lebron never left Cleveland and had zero rings, would he be considered transcendent or Pippen v2.0?

If Kareem never had the two GOAT PGs by him, would he be viewed as a disappointment?

If Hakeem never had Rudy T as his coach and installed that inside out offense to perfection, would he be viewed as the same as Robinson and Ewing?

Would Kemp be known for a lot more than his prolific breeding prowess if he won a le in 96?

Would Magic be viewed the same way as Sidney Moncrief if he went to Phoenix. Would he be labelled a coach killer and diva if the Lakers traded him instead of firing the coach in 82.

Besides, a number of teams won without an amazing superstar. People like to make Isiah Thomas out to be this enormously dominant player, he wasn't. He was good, but I can't really say that he is head and shoulders above Stockton, or even Payton or Kidd, and yet he is considered one of the top 15 players of all time because he had Daly as his coach, and had Dumars, Laimbeer, a checked-in Rodman, Aguirre, Salley, Microwave for a well constructed team that won him a le.

Billups is most definitely not an incredible superstar, Wade was great, but transcendent he was not.

Dirk's stock went up multiple notches after he won the le in 2011, he wasn't even in his absolute prime then, but he had the perfect team around him. He didn't become a better player in 2011, he just was viewed as one.

Pierce wasn't viewed seriously until Garnett and Allen joined him, and now he is widely viewed as one of the best win player in the 00s along with Kobe, and separated from the TMacs and Carters and Iversons.

So in short, what you are saying is great players need help to win? Wow. Neat and novel concept ...

Lookit, when you have great players and the guys you mentioned are all varying degrees of great winning rings is what separates the best of the best. You will never get me to think different on that.

Few stars are able to always be on good teams or with great coaches like Timmy with Pop or Brady with Belli. So since you posted all the above ... should Duncan get points subtracted for having always having a great coach and HOF caliber players such as Robinson, Manu, Tony and future HOF'ers Kiwi and LMA on his side when he rung? No he does not. It's part of the story ... but Duncan has led 5 le teams PERIOD

Now before you write another novel I do think Tim led and sometimes carried the 2003 Spurs but it is true that squad had at least two future HOF'ers (Manu/David) even if neither were in their primes.

In the end the ring is what matters. Not points, rebounds advanced metrics winning is the goal. You lead your team to a le you get bonus points from me period. Even #2's like Pippen and Pau get love as well. YOu dont lead a team to a ring you can still be great ... but it's a different tier.

[ambchang]

So in short, what you are saying is great players need help to win? Wow. Neat and novel concept ...

Hey, superstars superstars superstars, winning the le is not a team accomplishment. 5>4. Magic>Bird. You certainly didn't catch that over the last few years.

Lookit, when you have great players and the guys you mentioned are all varying degrees of great winning rings is what separates the best of the best. You will never get me to think different on that.

So wait, if a superstar doesn't have help which is something that is out of his control, he will cease to separate himself as the best of the best? How does that work?

Few stars are able to always be on good teams or with great coaches like Timmy with Pop or Brady with Belli. So since you posted all the above ... should Duncan get points subtracted for having always having a great coach and HOF caliber players such as Robinson, Manu, Tony and future HOF'ers Kiwi and LMA on his side when he rung? No he does not. It's part of the story ... but Duncan has led 5 le teams PERIOD

Not subtract points, but viewed in context. Duncan led the Spurs to 99, 03, 05 and 07, he had a good team around him, but in 99, the Spurs weren't viewed as a great team, neither were the 03 Spurs team, the Spurs won and they became a great team. Duncan didn't improve on his legacy because of 14, or at least shouldn't. He just did what he did over his career, but simpletons can only see that when a player won a le.

Now before you write another novel I do think Tim led and sometimes carried the 2003 Spurs but it is true that squad had at least two future HOF'ers (Manu/David) even if neither were in their primes.

So how do you lose when you have 4 HoFers on a team? How do you barely squeak into the playoffs with historically bad FTA disparity in the final stretch of the season when you have 3 HoFers?

In the end the ring is what matters. Not points, rebounds advanced metrics winning is the goal. You lead your team to a le you get bonus points from me period. Even #2's like Pippen and Pau get love as well. YOu dont lead a team to a ring you can still be great ... but it's a different tier.

No, the ring isn't all that matters, HOW you win the ring matters.

And no, MVPau wasn't the #2, he led his team in most of the advanced stats in both years, something Kobe couldn't do in ANY of the five les he won.

[Killakobe81]

Hey, superstars superstars superstars, winning the le is not a team accomplishment. 5>4. Magic>Bird. You certainly didn't catch that over the last few years.



So wait, if a superstar doesn't have help which is something that is out of his control, he will cease to separate himself as the best of the best? How does that work?



Not subtract points, but viewed in context. Duncan led the Spurs to 99, 03, 05 and 07, he had a good team around him, but in 99, the Spurs weren't viewed as a great team, neither were the 03 Spurs team, the Spurs won and they became a great team. Duncan didn't improve on his legacy because of 14, or at least shouldn't. He just did what he did over his career, but simpletons can only see that when a player won a le.



So how do you lose when you have 4 HoFers on a team? How do you barely squeak into the playoffs with historically bad FTA disparity in the final stretch of the season when you have 3 HoFers?



No, the ring isn't all that matters, HOW you win the ring matters.

And no, MVPau wasn't the #2, he led his team in most of the advanced stats in both years, something Kobe couldn't do in ANY of the five les he won.

Typical crap ...

[ambchang]

Typical crap ...

How so? Are you winning the argument now? Or did you just lose it by calling my arguments crap?

[RsxPiimp]

Relax. Just a bruise. Glad to see Randle and Kobe play better and injury to Russell is minor. Its just preseason though

We missed out on Stanley Johnson. That dude is gonna be special.

[Killakobe81]

How so? Are you winning the argument now? Or did you just lose it by calling my arguments crap?

I see I did strike a nerve! I just read the first part. saw it was crap ...did not read the rest. But I have found sometimes when dealing with the women in my life it's better to let them think they have won ...not saying you are definitely a woman or in my life ... but as Cube said "a is a ".

You win, Amb.

[ambchang]

I see I did strike a nerve! I just read the first part. saw it was crap ...did not read the rest. But I have found sometimes when dealing with the women in my life it's better to let them think they have won ...not saying you are definitely a woman or in my life ... but as Cube said "a is a ".

You win, Amb.

It's not striking a nerve per se, well, maybe, because your arguments are so illogical and self contradictory.

You kept harping on superstars getting credit then immediately contradict yourself about the need of a good team, which Is outside the control of said superstar. I pointed it out and it was me who spewed crap?

[Killakobe81]

It's not striking a nerve per se, well, maybe, because your arguments are so illogical and self contradictory.

You kept harping on superstars getting credit then immediately contradict yourself about the need of a good team, which Is outside the control of said superstar. I pointed it out and it was me who spewed crap?

Superstars get the lion's share of the credit but they also need support how is that mutually exclusive or contradictory? Jeez Amb, it's like dealing with Special Ed only more frustrating because I know you are not dumb you just act like it sometimes.

[ambchang]

Superstars get the lion's share of the credit but they also need support how is that mutually exclusive or contradictory? Jeez Amb, it's like dealing with Special Ed only more frustrating because I know you are not dumb you just act like it sometimes.

It is contradictory and illogical because:
1) You used the les heavily to rank players, when you have also admitted that the other members are also critical to winning a le. To wit, it was 5>4 prior to 2014, and after Duncan won five, you finally admitted to Duncan > Kobe, despite the fact that Duncan wasn't even the best player on that team (Kawhi was).
2) You treat it as all superstar les are the same, and they are not. Hakeem's 94 le, Rick Barry's le, and Duncan's 03 les are impressive because of the caliber of teammates, so is Dirk's. This compared to, say, Lebron's les, which were loaded teams, those were more impressive, and then there's compe iion. The 80s les were impressive compared to les in the 70s, and the les in the mid/early 00s are impressive, you can't treat a superstar le as a superstar le.
3) Billups doesn't get the lion's share of le, because that was a balanced team, and yes, Kobe shouldn't get the lion's share of the 09 and 10 les because MVPau was statistically more impressive. If you want to give Kobe the lion's share of credit in 09/10, then fine, Shaq gets the lion's share of credit from 00 to 02, so your 5>4 argument never made sense. In fact, Kobe would be an Isiah Thomas level player at best.

[Killakobe81]

It is contradictory and illogical because:
1) You used the les heavily to rank players, when you have also admitted that the other members are also critical to winning a le. To wit, it was 5>4 prior to 2014, and after Duncan won five, you finally admitted to Duncan > Kobe, despite the fact that Duncan wasn't even the best player on that team (Kawhi was).
2) You treat it as all superstar les are the same, and they are not. Hakeem's 94 le, Rick Barry's le, and Duncan's 03 les are impressive because of the caliber of teammates, so is Dirk's. This compared to, say, Lebron's les, which were loaded teams, those were more impressive, and then there's compe iion. The 80s les were impressive compared to les in the 70s, and the les in the mid/early 00s are impressive, you can't treat a superstar le as a superstar le.
3) Billups doesn't get the lion's share of le, because that was a balanced team, and yes, Kobe shouldn't get the lion's share of the 09 and 10 les because MVPau was statistically more impressive. If you want to give Kobe the lion's share of credit in 09/10, then fine, Shaq gets the lion's share of credit from 00 to 02, so your 5>4 argument never made sense. In fact, Kobe would be an Isiah Thomas level player at best.

LoL more Kobe? Told you we will not discuss Achilles ...

[ambchang]

LoL more Kobe? Told you we will not discuss Achilles ...

One of your go to moves.

[Splits]

D'Bust with a 4/4/4 line tonight with 2 TOs and an MINUS 20

[Raven]

D'Bust with a 4/4/4 line tonight with 2 TOs and an MINUS 20

in fairness, he should have had 6 or more TOs, they are not counting his no look passes to people that are out of bounds or to people that could never handle that pass in traffic.. just because they actually are touching the ball..

[Splits]

21 minutes
2-6
4 points
4 rebounds
4 assists
-20


Deeeee BbbbbBussssstttttttttttttt

[LkrFan]

Playoff squad is kinda funny. West is just deep as Jim’s fartbox. Be happy winning 35 games at this point.