PSA ...that last line though well intended ... is not you, "b". Please stick to bashing certain players and propping up others. Not a good look or sound for you ...
Now, proceed ...
No, I was following your lead. You said Kobe couldnt be top ten because he didnt make the playoffs in 06 and a few other subjective reasons. So I said Duncan shouldnt be top ten since he embarrassed himself in the playoffs time and time again. Then you brought up the Suns because you knew you lost the argument.
Game. Set. Match.
What was the argument?
B was a typo. Meant to type two spaces for a period.
I don't care what looks good and what doesn't look good.
Since you obviously forgot, I will answer it for you.
There were two main forks in the argument, and I will lay it out for you, just because you are a Suns fan, and you seem to be a little slow.
1 - Duncan does not belong in the same breath as Lebron for anyone who is not a Spurs homer
Well, there are a few arguments against it, first and foremost being that the article we are quoting had them #7 and #8 all time, next to each other, so they MUST be in the same breath.
Then of course, Duncan put up impressive stats throughout his career. While they are not as impressive as Lebron's, they are most definitely in the same breath.
As expected, Lebron, being a wing player, had better FT%, 3P%, AST, STLS and PF numbers
Duncan, being a post player, had better FG%, REB, BLKS and TOV numbers.
Lebron has the edge on scoring, which really wasn't a surprise.
Duncan had a lifetime ORtg of 110 and DRTG of 96 with a difference of 14, Lebron had 116 and 102 for a difference of 14.
They had similar WS/48 numbers (.211 vs. .240) and Duncan had higher WS numbers due to him player more games (201.2 vs. 178.9). Duncan had better DBPM but James had way better OBPM, and the overall BPM goes to James (9.2 vs. 5.5, but then James hasn't played 8 years out of his prime yet). The numbers are similar in the playoffs.
From a cir stantial, subjective angle, Duncan led a team of young players and way over the hill vets to the 03 championship, putting up monster numbers in the process. That remained undoubtedly his finest year. Lebron's finest has to be 2012, where he put up monster numbers in the playoffs. That said, a supporting cast of Wade, Bosh and Allen is so much better than a last year Robinson, young Parker (replaced by Claxton in clutch moments), young Ginobili (out of control) and Stephen Jackson as your second best player.
They are on pretty even ground, there really isn't much to argue about than that by anyone other than you.
2 - Not having Kobe at a top 10 was based on arbitrary criteria
Well, it's certainly subjective, obviously, but was it arbitrary? I won't agree to it, and I have outlined it here and there multiple times in the forum, you have proven yourself to be extremely slow, so I will list this out one more time.
Most people's top 10 usually have the following list of players (more than 10)
In everybody's list:
Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Old Timers:
Wilt
Russell
Oscar
West
Depends on who you have
Hakeem
Duncan
Shaq
Moses
Kobe
Lebron
Dr. J
Out of these 14 players, Kobe is the only player who missed the playoffs in his prime AND never led his team in most advanced category in any of the championship season. You can say that he is really an exception, or that he doesn't belong to the group. It is a simple spot the difference exercise that most people learn to master by the time they are about 5, but you seem to have trouble with it.
I just chose to look at this, and say, Kobe can't be the only exception, the only conclusion is, Kobe is not a top 10 player.
Now compare to your criteria, which was losing in an embarrassing fashion (swept or lost to a lower seed) in every round of the playoffs.
Magic and Kareem:
1st round - Lost to the lower seeded Rockets in the 1st round, a team with a losing record to boost. They were the 6th seed but the 6th seed was the lowest seed to make the playoffs, so it is equivalent to 8
CSF: Magic Lost to lower seeded Suns in 90, kareem lost to lower seeded GSW in 73
CF: Lost to lower seed Rockets in 86
F: Swept in Finals by Philly in 83
to boot, Kareem missed the playoffs twice.
Using your criteria, Magic and Kareem couldn't make the top 10 either, so unless you throw out Magic and Kareem, Duncan stays.
Besides, Duncan never did that in the finals, so you just added on missed shots, and different cir stances.
But if you were to add in those cir stances, multiple players in the above list did too.
Lebron as I listed, had "embarrassing" moments in every round, so did Wilt, Kobe, Hakeem, and basically everyone not name Jordan. So your top 10 list is left with one person.
In other words, your criteria wasn't arbitrary, it was just , but you failed to realize it, and even tried to claim "victory".
My question to you is, were you born re ed, or did you make an effort be re ed? It's hard, really hard to be as shamelessly stupid like you.
Last edited by ambchang; 10-09-2015 at 01:20 PM.
This is beneath you Amb.
What is? Proving my point?
Bird is Magic's bottom .
You sound more bitter than a man on hook for spousal support to a woman that's now banging your enemy.
Did these mu a here fabricate an agenda that pre-dates this ST? LMAO!
The 2000-01 Spurs were far from the 99 Spurs
-****** had kidney transplant AFTER the 99 season concluded & dude was never the same.
-Jaron Jackson killed the Lakers in 99 but was morbidly obese over the summer & was released
-Admiral started dealing w/ a debilitating slip disk issue which caused weakness in his leg
-Avery was older than dirt
-Elie was no longer on the team (he was playing for the Suns)
So out of all the rotation player Tim was the only one that was as good as 99 & the rest either were no long on the team or had a steep decline. The only reason they had the #1 seed was b/c Tim was carrying the team. On the other hand, the 2000-01 Lakers had already won a championship, Kobe had entered his prime & Shaq was still at his peak not to mention Fisher playing out of his mind which culminated in the best record for a single postseason run. Tim neutralized Shaq so you can't say shyt about Tim, Derek Anderson (the Spurs 2nd leading scorer) missed the Lakers series so it was Kobe/Fisher that destroyed Antonio Daniel/Terry Porter/Avery. You might have a better argument claiming Moses Malone punked Kareem & swept him in 83 when Kareem had a loaded team along an MVP candidate on his side. The 2000-01 Spurs supporting cast against the Lakers was no better than LeBron's supporting cast when the Spurs swept the Cavs. Lebron got outplayed by the same Tony Parker that was neutralized by rookie Devin Harris the previous year. Even in a series loss, Tim at least handled his business against the so called "most dominant" player when he was at the peak of his powers.
In 2002, Tim actually outplayed Shaq & carried the team for 3 quarters but nobody could hit the side of the barn when the Lakers doubled Tim in the 4th quarter. It was only the emergence of Stephen Jackson in 2002-03 that was able to solve that issue when he made team pay for double Tim; Kerr also had his moment when the Mavs TRIPLE teamed Tim.
Name me an opponent that outplayed/neutralized Shaq in a postseason series b/w 99-03....one? Answer: Nobody......except Tim, four times!
LoL at losing the most epic 7 game series to a team that had the same exact record being embaressing when Tim was the best player in the series despit playing w/ planter fasciitis. Not to mention Manu committing the dumbest foul in postseason history & Tony being neutralized by rookie Devin Harris. It's not like he folded like a cheap tent ala 2011 Finals Lebron.
I stopped reading right there....Duncan's teammates were no good or in "steep decline" yet they had the best record in the league and home court advantage.
And then they got curb-stomped. The Lakers won by probably the largest margin of victory in modern history.
btw - Spurs fans existed and were able to talk before this site was around. The Spurs and their fans looked like ing idiots.
LMAO, so the Cavs winning 66 game had to do w/ LeBron having a elite support cast (Mo Williams? lol) rather than LeBron playing at an elite level? Just like fake All-Star Mo Williams disappeared in the postseason Robinson turned into a against Shaq & couldn't outplay backup point guard Antonio Daniels let alone playing wingman like Kobe. Derek Anderson being out for the series & ****** playing w/o a kidney meant Kobe could just coast on defense. Fisher also destroyed both Terry Porter/Avery (made more 3s than the ENTIRE Spurs squad combined) & would have been the second best player on the Spurs. Let's not forget Danny Ferry playing starters minutes when Admiral got shook & tapped out. We all saw how great Admiral & the supporting cast were in the 2000 postseason when they got bounced 3-1 in the 1st round by a Suns squad that was missing Kidd.
In 2002 Admiral mysteriously had back issues in the 2nd rd & none other than Mark Bryant (the 15th man) had to start at center against Shaq. Even then Tim beat the Lakers at STAPLES & the rest of the games were lost in the 4th quarter when the Lakers doubled Tim.
LoL at bringing up agenda that can't be found in the archives & the OP might not even be alive. Team Duncan owns the Suns franchise & that will never change so stay SALTY my friend, stay salty.
Last edited by Kawhitstorm; 10-11-2015 at 02:26 AM.
Da Suns fan sounds like most of their bitter salty ass fans when it comes to the Spurs team... My God he is still mad over 03,05,07 and 08....
Where would you put Duncan all-time?
I love Larry Bird, but the myth around him needs to be challenged by these "writers" more. Larry, before his back injuries, was definitely a tier one all-time great, but his prime was short lived, his peak even shorter. Larry is, at best, a top 8-10 player.
Pretty high just above kobe and Shaq below magic kareem mj for sure but i also place him over Bird
Agreed, Larry is not the GOAT either as someone said in here, although in his prime a very very great player. What also gets overlooked and Tim gets knocked for at times is he never repeated as a champ but that is hardly ever mentioned.
Looking at his stats he had a few very good years and the rest of his seasons were just very steady, he never really fell off that badly stat wise and always got over or near 20 PPG. I have him about 6-7 range all times.I agree with you there.
Top 12 is usually the 12 battling for the top 10 spots.
Dwayne Wade is on that top 50 list as well... claiming Bron did it "by himself" is a real stretch... especially in light of what would have been of the 2013 NBA le had the Spurs not gift-wrapped it after Ray Allen's three (off of a LeBron miss, mind you).
Duncan's last 3 les included no one else from the list.
That is a fair point and I agree which is why I have him slightly ahead of Kobe/shaq for that reason. but he did have two other potential HOF and if you listen to upstair Kiwi lovers ... potentially a third.
But all of those things are arbitrary and lists likes these are subjective.
Some can take away points from Bird, Duncan and Wilt for not leading a repeat.
Amb can bash Kareem and Kobe for missing a playoffs in their "primes".
Some point to rings, while others will yell "Horry" when you do.
None is more valid than the other which is why I thought it funny amb spent days qualifying the "difference' between playoffs vs ringing or repeating when both can be called team accomplishments and or pinned/credited to the star player of that team.
Some would use stats but some players are better in PER some in Win shares.
Each person has their own list and criteria ...why waste time arguing why someone else's is wrong? Just argue why you did your own ranking some will agree some won't and move on. Who cares? Who your own or some hacks rankings are?
Can I ask why below Magic? Duncan's been a dominant player for all 18 seasons. Magic wasn't a terrible defender because of his versatility, but he was nowhere near the two way player Duncan was and had a much shorter career.
I think Magic and Bird are really damn close, honestly. It's hard for me to split the difference between them... most people forget about how much of a ing monster Bird was. Durant is almost considered a "big" today, meanwhile Larry averaged 10 boards per game for his career. That's insanity. 24/10/6, even with an inflated pace, is just bonkers.
But knowing what Duncan has done over the course of his career, and how he's a force on both sides almost every single night for 18 seasons, is almost unparalleled. I think he seriously deserves top 3 consideration. To me, Jordan is first followed closely by Kareem, and #3 is wide open for debate for a while, depending on how high LeBron ascends. To me there's just no clear cut #3.
Is that you, apalisoc?
FYI: LeBron shot 39% in the Finals so his numbers are bloated. No perimeter player will match Jordan's destruction of the #1 seed Suns who were led by MVP Barkley in the 93 Finals. (Wade in '06 is tainted)
Duncan has not been dominant for 18 that is a lie. Around 2008-2010 he was not dominant at all tbh. To his credit he rediscovered his elite play the past few years but lets not exaggerate.
Last edited by Killakobe81; 10-13-2015 at 12:56 PM.
Um... okay, at worst he was a force defensively and still good for 15+ a game. It's not like he fell off a cliff in those years.
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